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  #1  
September 25th, 2012, 08:58 PM
baabaamilker's Avatar Veteran
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You guys are funny! I suppose you would all like me to leave but before I do I just wanted to share my last temp with you on the day I'm expecting AF. See my chart below.

I'm no fake, I have precious little time for that. Sam is not three I just had him in 2011, Joey's my 3 year old.

I just happen to love having kiddos, you may love your career, my kiddos are my career.

Thank Shawna for your patience, I knew I was a trial to your nerves. You've been a great patient teacher. You've helped me to understand some things that I did not understand before.

Everybody needs somebody to talk things through when it seems that the body isn't working up to par (or changing). I think I picked the wrong group.
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  #2  
September 25th, 2012, 09:37 PM
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  #3  
September 26th, 2012, 05:39 AM
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These things happen occasionally. JM has had their share of trolls, so it's hard to be trusting of an unlikely story.
Back in my old DDC everyone posted pictures of themselves holding up a justmommies sign after a widespread troll was banned.
So (if you aren't a troll ) please be forgiving, this isn't an uncommon thing, it's not surprising for there to be a lack of trust on an anonymous forum.
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  #4  
September 26th, 2012, 07:36 AM
rlh27's Avatar Caleb's Mommy!
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I can't speak for everyone, but what frustrates me is that you come and ask for advice, but when it's given to you, you don't really listen. You instead go by what your gut feeling is instead of what the evidence points to. It is way more likely that your at home blood tests are not accurate and your "pregnancy" symptoms are just ovulation or AF symptoms, than you having chemicals month after month, NEVER getting a positive urine test, or producing hcg before your chart shows any real signs of ovulation. If you take away how you feel about each chart and the at home blood test, you actually have fairly normal looking charts.

There are ladies on this board who have had devastating early losses, and it is offensive that you would say month after month that you are experiencing an early loss when you have no concrete evidence that that is happening. At my last OB appointment I actually asked if you can use at home urine tests as a blood test if you have a way to just get the serum, and she told me it's possible, but the test detects the same amount of hcg. So if you don't get a positive with the urine, you're not going to get a true positive with the serum either. And as for your "symptoms", believe me, nobody is better at having phantom symptoms than me. But when you're TTC, you just obsess about those things and build up symptoms in your head. We all do it, but it doesn't mean you're pregnant.

I'm not saying you're a fake person and you are not genuinely confused about things (fertility can indeed be confusing), but if you come here for advice, actually listen instead of insisting you just know better. And if you think you're pregnant but it isn't showing up on a urine test, just go to a doctor and get a beta done. That'll tell you for sure.

There, I've said my piece. I'm not trying to be mean, just honest.
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  #5  
September 26th, 2012, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlh27 View Post
I can't speak for everyone, but what frustrates me is that you come and ask for advice, but when it's given to you, you don't really listen. You instead go by what your gut feeling is instead of what the evidence points to. It is way more likely that your at home blood tests are not accurate and your "pregnancy" symptoms are just ovulation or AF symptoms, than you having chemicals month after month, NEVER getting a positive urine test, or producing hcg before your chart shows any real signs of ovulation. If you take away how you feel about each chart and the at home blood test, you actually have fairly normal looking charts.

There are ladies on this board who have had devastating early losses, and it is offensive that you would say month after month that you are experiencing an early loss when you have no concrete evidence that that is happening. At my last OB appointment I actually asked if you can use at home urine tests as a blood test if you have a way to just get the serum, and she told me it's possible, but the test detects the same amount of hcg. So if you don't get a positive with the urine, you're not going to get a true positive with the serum either. And as for your "symptoms", believe me, nobody is better at having phantom symptoms than me. But when you're TTC, you just obsess about those things and build up symptoms in your head. We all do it, but it doesn't mean you're pregnant.

I'm not saying you're a fake person and you are not genuinely confused about things (fertility can indeed be confusing), but if you come here for advice, actually listen instead of insisting you just know better. And if you think you're pregnant but it isn't showing up on a urine test, just go to a doctor and get a beta done. That'll tell you for sure.

There, I've said my piece. I'm not trying to be mean, just honest.


This is pretty much what I had typed out before I decided not to post last night.


I, personally, don't think you're fake,I just think you have some serious emotional issues that need to be dealt with. I think it's important to note that, on any given cycle, there is only a 20% or so chance that a woman will get pregnant, even if she is having regular intercourse during ovulation. Certainly, some women are more fertile than others but I think it's pretty clear that it would be nearly impossible for you to end up pregnant as often as you say you are. I think that you just honestly can't handle the thought of failing at getting pregnant, so you call every period a chemical but I think you fail realize how offensive that could be to a woman who has legitimately suffered from recurrent losses.
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  #6  
September 26th, 2012, 03:13 PM
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I also just wanted to add, now that I have had a chance to sit down, that I read through some of your old posts to get a better idea of who you are and it does appear that your story is consistently the same. When you were TTC your youngest, you claimed a miscarriage every cycle you were trying with him, including one at 5 DPO, which, clearly, is nearly impossible, considering that implantation doesn't typically occur until after 6 or 7 DPO.

I really and honestly hope that you can get the help you need. There comes a point where an obsession is no longer normal or healthy, and I think it is fair to say that you are beyond that point of obsession.
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  #7  
September 26th, 2012, 10:53 PM
baabaamilker's Avatar Veteran
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Test for me---positive

Test for my husband (same test, same procedure)---negative

Just saying.
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  #8  
September 27th, 2012, 08:52 AM
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  #9  
September 27th, 2012, 12:48 PM
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Then now would be a very good time to have a beta drawn. Then if you do end up with a chemical, your doctor will have some concrete data. Doctors generally do not accept "I just know I'm having all these chemicals because I keep getting pregnancy symptoms and my at home blood tests are positive even though my urine tests are negative" as reliable data.
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  #10  
September 27th, 2012, 03:32 PM
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Especially when all of your charting data is actually showing that you haven't even ovulated 1/2 the time you are getting positive pregnancy tests.

I bet some of these doctors would even love to study you. You just may very well be the only woman on earth who not only gets pregnant every cycle that she has sex but also the only one who gets positive pregnancy tests before she's ever even pregnant! Amazing, I tell you.
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  #11  
September 28th, 2012, 11:26 AM
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  #12  
October 1st, 2012, 09:43 PM
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Hi ladies,

Couldn't make myself stay away. First off I wanted to say that I am in complete agreement with rlh27 concerning myself. If I were to step back and look at myself through my posts on this forum I would agree that I ask for advice but then never really seem to take the advice, I seem conceited and proud. My apologies for coming off that way.

Just understand that I'm coming from a perspective of trying to hash out what is going on with my cycles. It's like trying to teach your children proper behavior. You ask folks for advice but you don't take all of the advice and apply it, you apply what fits to your family. If you took everyone's advice your children would be a mess. I understand we are talking about something much more scientific than raising children.

I also am coming from a background of one experience after another where symptoms for me meant nothing but pregnancy (I've never experienced PMS), and where I have easily detected when I got pregnant according to CM. So this is all new and strange to me.

I know the position of recurrent loss, I've had three medically documented early miscarriages between a few of my children, so I can sympathize with the folks who have lost and know for sure they have. I also understand that those who are actively trying and are having a difficult time probably find the number of children I have offensive, when they seem to have come effortlessly. Again, I'm sorry for that. It's a two way street, I must be tender to those who would love to have a child in their arms but are struggling, and likewise (though it may be hard to understand), others must understand that my desire to hold another baby is similar.

As far as my obsession goes, I most certainly desire to hold a baby, but my obsession has turned more toward trying to figure out what is going on. I study and study my charts trying to see if there is a pattern between when we detected HCG, mucus not lining up with temps, etc. I've also been comparing this current set of charts to my charts before my last baby (when again similar things were happening).

The HCG thing is a mystery to me. It's strange that your Dr. would say that using a urine test would test the same amount as in the urine. It's pretty common knowledge that you have to have a build up in the blood of the HCG, which is then filtered out by the liver (the liver's job is to filter out excess hormones, among other things) into the urine. You can detect 20 mIu of HCG in the blood long before it gets into the urine (one of my urine tests didn't come out positive till 19DPO) The tests I have can detect as little as 20 mIu of HCG, whether that be urine or serum.

I also did an internet search of things that might cause a continued elevation of HCG and found only one thing. There's something called growth cell tumors (they can either be benign or cancerous), that are rare in adults, and even more rare in females than men. They are typically found in children and are from the filtering down of the hcg after they are born into their gonads. So nothing on the internet on that front, though I suppose I could be one of the rare.

I have an appointment to go see the German Naturopath Dr. on Friday. I know you all are sighing a breath of relief In the process of writing out the short of my cycles for the Dr. I did identify something strange that I toyed with in my mind before but never set down to study it completely. That is in both sets of charts, those before my last baby, and those now I can see where temps and mucus were not lining up. I know this has all been discussed before. Both sets of charts show consistently fertile mucus well before the temp rise. The charts before my last baby were only about five days from mucus to temp rise, and the mucus did gradually began to get closer to temp rise. This set of charts after baby are the same way but started out much more drastically far apart. Now I'm down to where this last cycle the mucus and temps lined up just perfect. I know that Shawna said occassionaly you can have the mucus not do what it is supposed to at the right time, but this has been consistent.

As far as symptoms go I'm also noticing a pattern of correlation between temp shift (whether that be before ovulation or after) and symptoms. My own progesterone this time after ovulation left me very exhausted, but I only felt that knock down dragged out tired on the days my temps were their highest. In a couple of my cycles I saw temp spikes before the final thermal shift. I also have recorded feeling tired like that during those spikes.

I'm very excited that my husband will be gone for the next two months (well not that he'll actually be gone), because I will most definitely know that any symptoms I might experience are only normal cycle hormone related. Unfortunately, I can't have him draw my blood to check the HCG but the Dr. might be interested in doing that. I hope to see perhaps some changes during these two months but who knows. It will be nice to gather some ideas from the Dr. whom I'm sure has dealt with every hormone pattern under the sun.
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  #13  
October 2nd, 2012, 07:52 AM
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How does it work, then, for all of the women who get blaring BFP's on urine tests with betas of less than 20? If you browse JM, you will see that it is not a rare occurrence at all.

Looks to me like you had a perfect 13 day LP based on the actual data you recorded. Pretty crazy how that happens every cycle; you mark O somewhere that doesn't make any sense based on the data, randomly get a positive blood test that won't show up with urine and then have a perfectly typically cycle if you take out your feelings.

And a naturopath is not at all what I has in mind when I suggested a doctor. An actual OB who can test your blood and refer you to a psychologist is what I was thinking.

Also keep in mind over the next couple of cycles how powerful the mind can be. If you don't experience symptoms, that's no indication that the symptoms you HAVE been experiencing are pregnancy symptoms.
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Last edited by Babybear4; October 2nd, 2012 at 07:58 AM.
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  #14  
October 3rd, 2012, 06:14 AM
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I would just stop taking your blood early so that 1) you don't drive yourself insane, and 2) start looking like a drug addict from getting poked so much. Yikes!

Maybe the tests your dh is using are expired, maybe they're a less reliable brand, maybe he's doing something slightly wrong... who knows. What's the harm in asking your OB to do it? They do them all the time and I'm sure they will upon request. At least you would know if the results coincide or not. Besides, the OB will probably think it strange that your dh is doing blood tests on you every month, former phlebotomist or not. It's just not something folks routinely do at home. And if you're really concerned about the results, I think the very obvious thing to do is to get a blood test from the OB. Better yet, do it on a month when your dh also gets a positive, so you know for sure if there's a discrepancy. Mystery solved, right?

Also, if you're getting reliable positive blood tests with a level of 20, then it seems very unlikely that a First Response Early Result hpt would not also be positive since it detects levels as low as 25. (Right?? Somebody correct me if I'm wrong...) That being the case, it seems incredibly unlikely that your levels fall into the very narrow range of 20-25 every month.

I would really, really, really go to to your OB and get blood tests and find out of your dh is doing something wrong before you worry for months up on months that you're having chemicals... even before you see this other doctor. Because you don't even have conclusive evidence that you ARE having chemicals, so I would seek confirmation of the problem from your OB before I would seek treatment for the problem.

Hopefully I didn't misunderstand anything. I apologize if I did! ... Just my 2 cents, from what I understand.

Also, as far as mucus lining up with O, I don't know what you're talking about in terms of past charts, but I took a look at your most recent one, and it looks perfect in terms of temps. And I agree with others who say you're marking your O in the wrong spot. It looks very clear to me that your O should be marked right before the temp rise, which is where FF would normally mark it, I'm pretty sure. There's just no reason to change it.

Did you know that it's not uncommon for your cervix to "close up shop" before your temp rise? It happens to me all the time that my cervix will be very open for days and then start closing up the day before the temp even rises. CM may or may not also start drying up before I see the temp rise, but it's always within a day or 2 tops for me. It looks very clear to me that you O'ed last time on CD 16.

Just thoughts.
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  #15  
October 3rd, 2012, 06:31 AM
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Of course, not all urine HPTs are the same at all. If I wait until like the day before my period and I'm pregnant, I've always gotten a very, very clear positive using FRER. Turns out there are some that detect as low as 10 mIU! That's crazy!

If that's negative and you dh's test is still positive, something's very wrong with your husband's blood tests.

Here's a great HPT comparison chart:

Pregnancy Test - Sensitivity Comparison - BabyHopes.com


(But I would still take the route of just going to the OB and requesting a blood draw instead of making conclusions on your own.)
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  #16  
October 3rd, 2012, 11:34 AM
rlh27's Avatar Caleb's Mommy!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baabaamilker View Post
The HCG thing is a mystery to me. It's strange that your Dr. would say that using a urine test would test the same amount as in the urine. It's pretty common knowledge that you have to have a build up in the blood of the HCG, which is then filtered out by the liver (the liver's job is to filter out excess hormones, among other things) into the urine. You can detect 20 mIu of HCG in the blood long before it gets into the urine (one of my urine tests didn't come out positive till 19DPO) The tests I have can detect as little as 20 mIu of HCG, whether that be urine or serum.

I also did an internet search of things that might cause a continued elevation of HCG and found only one thing. There's something called growth cell tumors (they can either be benign or cancerous), that are rare in adults, and even more rare in females than men. They are typically found in children and are from the filtering down of the hcg after they are born into their gonads. So nothing on the internet on that front, though I suppose I could be one of the rare.
Maybe at most a day before, but certainly not a week. A lady in my DDC actually had her beta drawn an hour after getting a very faint positive (she had recurring losses, so they wanted to know as soon as pregnancy was confirmed.) Her beta was 2. Not even technically pregnant, but the home pregnancy test detected it in her urine. HPTs usually detect more hcg than is listed on the packaging. Mine was around 12 when it registered on a 25 sensitivity test.

Instead of researching everything online that matches the "symptoms" you've been experiencing, go to an OB. Really. It gets old when you want us to explain what's going on with your "symptoms", at home blood tests, and recurring "chemicals", when it's really simple to explain. You're having normal cycles and your at home tests aren't working the way you think they are. You just refuse to believe this.

And as has been said, if you take out your blood test, and move the crosshairs back to where they should logically be, you have yet another perfectly normal ovulatory cycle.
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  #17  
October 3rd, 2012, 10:02 PM
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Ok got it folks.
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  #18  
October 4th, 2012, 08:24 PM
TaraJo29's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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(I hope I wasn't too offensive in how I said what I said. When I just read it over again it seemed snippier than I meant it when I typed it. Hopefully you didn't read it that way. )
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  #19  
October 5th, 2012, 01:41 PM
baabaamilker's Avatar Veteran
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TaraJo28, it's ok, thanks for your apology.

Just to stick to the facts, no feelings etc. Other than out of sight out of mind I don't know why I failed to mentioned that when it seemed these same things were going on before my last baby I did have a progesterone test run by my midwife.

The test was done three days after a sustained temp rise. The results were 0.3 ng/ml. Not good. According the normal results on the sheet from the lab themselves, I was making less progesterone than a post menopausal woman.

With progesterone like that it amazes me that I even have a 12 day luteal phase.
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  #20  
October 5th, 2012, 08:23 PM
ShawnaCAN's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baabaamilker View Post
The test was done three days after a sustained temp rise. The results were 0.3 ng/ml. Not good. According the normal results on the sheet from the lab themselves, I was making less progesterone than a post menopausal woman.

Prog. levels under 10 usually mean ovulation did not yet occur, or it was tested too soon after. The best time to test is 7 days after ovulation; for the most accurate result. I wouldn't read much into that one result, if you were truly 3 days past ovulation. I'd question that though too, since you've been demonstrating a lot of confusion about how to identify ovulation accurately.
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