[Niamh ૐ]

Ok, so this stupid "take our survey... what do you like/don't like about our site" thing kept showing up on Fertility Friend. I was busy at the time so I clicked "Remind me later". About an hour later it shows up again. So I'm thinking "alright fine... I'll take the survey".

It only has a couple questions. First one asks to rate the program between 1-5 (5 being the best). I rank it a 4. (I like FF, but I happen to like the other program I'm using better... the program that came with my TCOYF book... it's made by a company called Ovusoft). I think FF is a great program, I just like the Ovusoft program better. Anyways, it asks me what features I'd like to see from them. Off the top of my head I say: "I wish I were able to change the colours on my chart." Under the "Do you have any other comments/suggestions/questions?" part I said:

I'd like it if there were a flat fee to use the service instead of having to repay after 30, 90, or 365 days.

I recently got the TCOYF Ovusoft program and I like it much more than FF. I don't plan on renewing my FF VIP membership after my 90 days are up (if I don't get pregnant of course). I like that TCOYF has more charting options. I like that it predicts my ovulation day when I ovulate instead of having to wait three days after it (that's when it's confirmed, yes... but they still let me know I'm ovulating). I feel that TCOYF is much more accurate than FF. I also like that all of my symptoms are listed on my chart with TCOYF! Whereas with FF, if I have more than 10 of the already created symptoms, it only marks the 10 most frequent symptoms. I want to be able to see ALL my symptoms.

However, I like that I'm able to somewhat customize my webpage on FF, whereas with TCOYF I can only customize the colours on my chart. Ideally, I'd like to be able to do both. I like customization.

As of right now, that's all I can really think of. ;-)[/b]

I figured this would be helpful information for them. Considering that this survey is being sent out so that they can see what their customers like and don't like. And I thought it would be very helpful letting them know that at least one of their customers (me ) likes another program better... and why. That's what these surveys are for, right?

Well, about 10 minutes after I send my answers in, I get an email from someone at customer support at FF:

Obviously if you think that this simple software is better than what we propose on our site we have done something wrong at explaining you what we do. I wish you the very best with your trying to conceive journey. Thank you for your feedback.

FertilityFriend.com.[/b]

I don't know about you and I don't know if I'm just being over sensitive, but I kind of found the first sentence to be somewhat rude. I don't know... it felt like this person (I'm assuming female?) was being very condescending. I replied back:

I wasn't filing a complaint or anything... just telling you why I like the other software better. I was trying to help YOU with letting you know what I like and what I don't like about FF, so that you might be able to keep your other consumers and not lose them to Ovusoft or another fertility charting company.

I also feel like this email was somewhat rude. Your first sentence feels very condescending. I feel like I'm being treated like an idiot. A simple "Thank you for your feedback, we will take your suggestions into consideration" would have sufficed. If you didn't intend to come off this way, then I apologize for taking offense... it was just the tone I got from it. ;-)

Thank you for your best wishes. ;-) And I apologize if *I* am coming off rude.


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~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Blessings Be Upon You
~Niamh G. Dhabolt[/b]

Her response:

Oh I am so sorry, it was not meant as rude at all. It was just a statement taht we obviously did a poor job showing you what we do. I totally will pass along your comments and you can be sure they will be taken into consideration when we update our system. I apologize for any misunderstanding.

Best wishes,
FertilityFriend.com.[/b]

I was much happier with this email. I thought "ok, so I was just being over sensitive and she didn't intend to sound rude. Now I feel silly." I replied and gave thanks and also apologized if *I* had come off rude to her.

I figured that was the end of that. Go on with the day. But nope... she replies back:

Not a problem, we are grateful for your feedback I am sure that this is more information than you wish to have but let me give you more information: If you wonder why we do not show you ovulation early for example it is simply because it would lead people to stop their intercourse too early. Time is of essence when trying to conceive. The software you mentioned is based on a method that was designed in the 40s and then improved in the 60s to avoid pregnancy. In this case the situation is different and knowing ovulation early is important. The reason why we limit the number of signs is simply to keep the chart not too tall so that you can see it without scrolling too much. That is something we can modify as people get screen with better resolutions though. What we do on the site is to try to give people more information and accurate assessment for the purpose of trying to conceive. We constantly research and create mathematical models of the data collected on the site to i!
mprove the information we provide to members. Any cycle missed or any information not found is critical when you are trying to conceive as age is a very important factor for most people.

Best wishes and thank you again for your feedback.
FertilityFriend.com.[/b]

Ugh. I thought this was over. Anyways, I calmly reply back:

Actually, the Ovusoft software is based off of the Fertility Awareness Method as taught in the book "Taking Charge of Your Fertility" by Toni Weschler, first written in 1995 with the latest edition being from 2006 and is written for both women TTA and women TTC. While FAM may have first come out in the times you dictated, it's been revised and updated for today's knowledge and technology. The information taught and given in my Ovusoft program is practically identical to the information given on FF. Maybe you are thinking of the Rhythm Method?

Anyways, I won't get into a debate. ;-)

I still wish I could customize my chart more with FF like I can with Ovusoft. I like that I'm able to change the colours of my chart with Ovusoft. Also, the Ovusoft chart just looks "cleaner" in my opinion.

This is my Ovusoft chart: http://forums.ovusoft.com/chart.asp?id=niamh_dhabolt
Compared to my FF chart: http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/niamhdhabolt

I like with the Ovusoft one that only one chart is listed at a time, but you (and others) can view previous charts by clicking the "Select Chart" drop down box... which will list every previous chart you have on there. I'd like all my charts to be available to everyone, but I feel Ovusoft's set-up is much cleaner and organized than FF's. One thing I like about FF over Ovusoft though is that I can add pictures and such to my webpage... which I can't do with Ovusoft. I also like that I can access my FF chart from any computer, whereas I have to use MY computer to alter my Ovusoft chart, as it's an actual software program.

My Ovusoft chart lists all the symptoms I have and add on each chart, but since there's only once chart per page, even with all the symptoms listed, there isn't tons of scrolling. I think FF should be more like this.

I also like that Ovusoft is in business with other forum sites. Like JustMommies, which is a forum I frequent. I'm able to have the JustMommies logo at the top of my page, which I think is neat. It encourages my other friends to check it out. There are several forum sites that you can choose from to have listed at the top. I like that.

I can also leave extra "notes" on each day on my Ovusoft chart. At the bottom is a little icon of a pen and paper. Visiters can click on that icon and see the note I have for that day. If it's a note I prefer to keep private, then I can mark it as unclickable. I can leave daily notes on my FF chart, but they're not viewable to others who view my public chart.

Also, I *LOVE* that my friends and family can leave comments on my chart! That's one of my favorite features of my Ovusoft program that FF doesn't have. I can set it so either everyone can post, only members of the Ovusoft site can post, only people on my "friends" list can post, or no one can post. My choice. I also have those options available for people to even view my chart. I can keep it totally private if I want (though I like keeping it pretty open to everyone). I can also set a password on it for people to view. I think all of this is pretty neat. Oh yeah, and I can also keep other things private, like intercourse, medications, certain symptoms, etc.

And like I said in my original feedback: I like that there is a flat fee with Ovusoft. I paid $40 and have it for a lifetime. I don't ever have to "renew" my service with them. Their profits seem to mostly arise out of their advertising (ie the forum options we can list on our chart page). That's not to say that their site has a ton of adds on it or anything (it doesn't), but that since their program is just a flat fee, I'm sure that's where most of their profits come from.

Anyways, I hope all this info is helpful. There *are* some features that FF has that Ovusoft doesn't (like CM analyzer, chart overlays, etc. Oh, I also like the little stop light that says "Probably Not Fertile", "Possibly Fertile", "Probably Fertile", and "Most Fertile"... I even made little icons of that for my journal: http://pregnant-niamh.livejournal.com/55874.html ). I certainly don't hate FF... in fact I like it a lot. I just happen to like this other program better. I hope the reasons I gave are helpful in making FF even better. ;-)


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~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Blessings Be Upon You
~Niamh G. Dhabolt[/b]

I figured a more in depth explanation of what I like and don't like between FF and Ovusoft would be very helpful. I forgot to also mention to her that the explanation for why they don't mark ovulation until three days afterward wouldn't work for me. Like I've said before... my husband is a once-a-weeker. Timing BD'ing is very tricky since he's often not in the mood. I usually get ONE chance. I don't want to do it too early (say on a Monday, and then later I find out I O'ed on a Thursday and we missed our chance) and I don't want to miss it (holding off doing it because I'm not sure if I'm ovulating... only to find out we waited too long). Even though Ovusoft, like FF doesn't *confirm* ovulation until three days afterward, Ovusoft still lets me know "hey, you're most likely ovulating today... you should BD soon". For me personally, that's a lot more helpful.

Anyways, like I said, I figured this email would be something that the people at FF would like to review... maybe get some ideas, etc. I was really hoping that all the comparing and the suggestions would be the focus for her, and not the small snipit about FAM at the beginning. Her reply:

Oh no FAM was created by the World Health Organization. It was not invented by the author you mentioned.
The book you mentioned made it popular but it did not create it. Check our FAQ on the history of fertility charting. It will give you a better view.

Best wishes,
FertilityFriend.com.[/b]

*sigh* It was this point that I got rather ticked. First off... I didn't say Toni Weschler "invented" FAM. I said that the Ovusoft software is based off of the FAM that is taught in that book. I said that FAM may have been invented long long ago... but it has been revised and updated to catch up with modern knowledge. This woman said the latest revision of FAM was in the 60's. Well the latest version of TCOYF came out in 2006. I never said Toni Weschler created FAM, I just said that the Ovusoft software is based on HER book's version of FAM. And the FAM taught in her book is almost identical to the information given on FF. The two programs are essentially using the same method... maybe with some slight differences.

But what ticked me off even more was that THAT was the only thing she focused on. I wrote a long, detailed explanation and comparison of FF and Ovusoft... which features I liked about one program over another, etc. This was, afterall, the purpose of filling out that survey, right? Not to debate the origins of fertility charting.

I also felt this woman's emails to me were very unprofessional... especially coming from a customer service angle. I felt like she was grasping at straws... not listening to what I was saying... and then practically arguing with me. It felt like, instead of understanding why I like one program over another, she was flabbergasted as to why I would like my "simple, outdated" software over their "super high tech totally awesome" program. Even if she's totally right, you don't pick an argument with a customer. You listen to what they have to say and pass on their suggestions. I would think they would be especially attentive knowing that I left their site for another program... and why I did so.

She should have just kept it at "thanks for your suggestions... I'll pass them along." My final email to her was:

"Oh no FAM was created by the World Health Organization. It was not invented by the author you mentioned. The book you mentioned made it popular but it did not create it."

I know that. I didn't say she did. I said that it may have been created long ago, but it has been revised and updated through the years and today's version is almost identical to the method taught on the FF site.

I know the history of fertility charting. ;-)

But like I said, I don't want to get into a debate. I was hoping the rest of what I said in my email (comparing the two fertility programs) would have been the focus as that was the bulk of my email. Was the other information I left helpful?

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~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Blessings Be Upon You
~Niamh G. Dhabolt[/b]

No need to debate it indeed. I will pass along your comments.

Thank you for your time.
FertilityFriend.com.[/b]

THANK YOU! Finally. I was afraid to reply back and say "Thank you", because I was sure she'd find something else to say... starting another exchange of emails. So I just didn't reply and left it at that.

But jeez! I think my overall rating for FF has officially dropped to a 3. Maybe even a 2.5.

[Kelllilee]

wow! That's crazy. She definitely didn't come off as professional by any means! i can't believe she carried it on so far! Guess she just had to have the "last word"

I come across people on here now and then who seem to just skim over posts and reply to what they feel like and don't really understand the whole post. So what they say doesn't make any sense. It bothers me

Anyway, hopefully she'll leave you alone now.

FWIW, I actually don't like the look of ovusoft, it looks cluttered to me. But that's just my opinion...

[Niamh ૐ]

wow! That's crazy. She definitely didn't come off as professional by any means! i can't believe she carried it on so far! Guess she just had to have the "last word"

I come across people on here now and then who seem to just skim over posts and reply to what they feel like and don't really understand the whole post. So what they say doesn't make any sense. It bothers me

Anyway, hopefully she'll leave you alone now.

FWIW, I actually don't like the look of ovusoft, it looks cluttered to me. But that's just my opinion...[/b]

Thanks for understanding how I felt! lol.

lol, see, I feel the opposite. I think FF looks cluttered. Especially when all the charts are on the same page. I like that with Ovusoft only one chart is on the page and if you want to see previous charts, you can click the drop-down box at the top and choose previous charts. To me, the Ovusoft charts just look "cleaner". However, I do really like the cross-hairs on FF.

There are things that FF has that I like better than Ovusoft... but when it comes down to it, there are more things I like with Ovusoft than with FF. I just personally prefer one program over another. I felt like this lady was just not listening to me. I mean, sure, the look and feel of FF could stay the same, if that's the set up they prefer... but I'd really like to be able to *customize* the chart more. And it'd be nice to have a flat fee for the program that you can have for life... instead of monthly/yearly fees.

I like the privacy options for Ovusoft and I LOVE that people can comment on each of my charts.

I figure those kinds of things (flat fee, privacy options, being able to just view one chart at a time- with options to see previous charts, being able to customize the chart more, and possibly being able to have people comment on the charts) are all things that could be helpful suggestions, ya know?

[Kelllilee]

I totally agree with you on almost all of that! I love being able to have comments on your chart. I would love to be able to customize the look/colors of them too! and really, how hard would that be!!?

A flat fee would be cool, although they'd probably make it some extrodinarily high amount. I was a FF member before they started charging and it was so much better. I loved the forums and everything. I refused out of principal to pay to be a member, it just was "wrong" ya know? So I just have a basic free membership.

[kruff79]

Wow, If you copied and pasted she must have not been over the age of 18. Did anyone else notice the spelling errors? Never mind her arguing with you. I'm glad I haven't paid for FF. Thanks for sharing Niamh.

[Niamh ૐ]

Wow, If you copied and pasted she must have not been over the age of 18. Did anyone else notice the spelling errors? Never mind her arguing with you. I'm glad I haven't paid for FF. Thanks for sharing Niamh.[/b]

YES YES YES YES YES. I was going to mention that, but was worried that would make me sound petty, lol. But yes, I absolutely noticed the spelling/grammar errors. Spelling and grammar errors aren't a huge deal to me when it's just chit chat between friends or on a forum... but when coming from a customer service person, I don't know... I guess I expected more professionalism.

the first response was probably a bog standard reply that they use for all feedback similar to what you gave. I wouldn't have taken it too personally. But then it gets in depth!! gosh what nonsense from them

[alicenwonderland]

OMG! LOL! That is hysterical! I agree about her sounding young. That's just insane. I don't think their customer service was doing you any "service". Remind me never to take their stinking survey.

[~Angela~]

Wow! She was very unprofessional, and kind of sounded like an idiot at times.

[ShawnaCAN]

*snort*

Looks like someone over at FF has too much time and way too little knowledge!

[Niamh ૐ]

*snort*

Looks like someone over at FF has too much time and way too little knowledge![/b]

Seriously!

[Kelllilee]

If it were me I would contact another person at customer service and report her. That was totally uncalled for, and I think she may need a bit of retraining (and maybe an English refresher course ).

[Niamh ૐ]

If it were me I would contact another person at customer service and report her. That was totally uncalled for, and I think she may need a bit of retraining (and maybe an English refresher course ).[/b]

Eh... it's already been a day... I've cooled down. I would feel weird reporting it now after a whole day has gone by. *shrugs* I wasn't TOO upset about the whole thing... I just thought it was ridiculous that I was simply trying to give suggestions and point out what I liked and didn't like about FF and why I preferred another program, and all she did was basically call my program "inferior" and "simple" and argue the history of fertility charting.

I mean, yeah, I could have just not replied to the first email... but I *did* kind of feel the first sentence came off rather rude, and I wanted her to know that, since it's customer service, ya know? When she replied with the apology, I was like "alright, I was just being oversensitive" and I dropped it and said thanks. I thought it was over after that. Her next email I felt was just dragging it on and I really did feel the need to reply to it because I felt she had her information wrong... AND I wanted to give more clear reasons why I like one program over another... as that's what the survey is about, ya know? It was just annoying that the ONLY thing she focused on was the FAM history.

The whole experience just made me like FF less. :-/

[sjkduke]

That's insane, and incredibly disappointing! Customer service should be all about customer service--not arguing with the customer. Sounds like it's just some random person emailing you, instead of an actual FF employee, how rude!

[Cathy =^..^=]

That's a shame. Makes me almost wanna cancel my membership.

[Niamh ૐ]

That's a shame. Makes me almost wanna cancel my membership.[/b]

Don't do that!

At worst, let your VIP status run out and don't renew

But seriously, if the site has been helpful for you, you don't have to cancel.