Log In Sign Up

Question to anyone using Soy Isoflavones


Forum: Fertility Charting

Notices

Welcome to the JustMommies Message Boards.

We pride ourselves on having the friendliest and most welcoming forums for moms and moms to be! Please take a moment and register for free so you can be a part of our growing community of mothers. If you have any problems registering please drop an email to boards@justmommies.com.

Our community is moderated by our moderation team so you won't see spam or offensive messages posted on our forums. Each of our message boards is hosted by JustMommies hosts, whose names are listed at the top each board. We hope you find our message boards friendly, helpful, and fun to be on!

Reply Post New Topic
  Subscribe To Fertility Charting LinkBack Topic Tools Search this Topic Display Modes
  #1  
October 8th, 2009, 09:12 AM
AngelM82's Avatar Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: McChord AFB, WA
Posts: 227
Good morning all, so it is now CD2 of my cycle and I am motivated! I stocked up on OPK's, the pack of 20 Answer brand ones and a pack of the digital ones with the smiley face so that I can confirm if I get an answer one that looks like it is positive. Also going to pick up some preseed, there is one place here in town that supposedly does actually sell it but its downtown so I'm making DH take me there this weekend.

The main thing I'm anxious to try though, is Soy Insoflavones. I wanted to see if there are any girls here that have personally tried it or known of anyone that has had success with it. My last two cycles were 43 and then 49 days and I am thinking this last cycle was my first one that I actually O'ed, which was on CD37. I want to see if I can bring on my O just a little sooner. So if anyone knowns much of it I would like to have some opinions on when to start it and how much. I have read so so many things online where some women only take 50-80mg for 5 days and alot of other women I have read take 120 up to 200mg. I also read to maybe that the same mgs and you would in Clomid since it is meant to be used in a similar fashion. The thing is, I havent ever taken Clomid so I wouldnt know how many mgs a doc may have me do, so I dont know what to go with. Also, how to determine which day to start it on. Is it too early to start it on CD1 for 5 days? I have read ladies starting it as late as CD5... I have nothing to base off of but I was kind of thinking of starting today on CD2 and going to CD6. And thinking doing 140mg at night before bed. Should I do more or less? Also, should I be taking it with a bite of food?

Okie doke, long post here full of questions... hehe! I'm exited to give something new a try!! Good luck to those ladies still in it, baby dust girls!!!!!!!!!
__________________




Angel (27)
Married to Ryan (30) since January 2008
TTC since June 2008, miscarriage July 2008, and a temporary break due to deployment but back at it since June 2009 with all we got!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
October 8th, 2009, 03:44 PM
AngelM82's Avatar Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: McChord AFB, WA
Posts: 227
Bump!!

I know I've noticed people mention it here and there so I'm hoping for some other ladies opinions on the subject, thanks!
__________________




Angel (27)
Married to Ryan (30) since January 2008
TTC since June 2008, miscarriage July 2008, and a temporary break due to deployment but back at it since June 2009 with all we got!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
October 8th, 2009, 04:38 PM
pattyandthemoos's Avatar Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 61,614
I do not know anything about the soy isoflavones. I will see what I can find out for you. I know the starting dosage for Clomid is 50 mg.
__________________


Missing my Mommy Weightloss & Fitness girls. You're the best!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
October 8th, 2009, 04:43 PM
pattyandthemoos's Avatar Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 61,614
I have found some conflicting information on this.

Quote:
A few studies suggest that high levels of soy protein may decrease fertility. According to a report in The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition a small number of studies have shown that high levels of soy can increase menstrual cycle length, decrease FSH (follicle-stimulating hormone) and decrease LH (leutinizing hormone).
How does soy affect fertility?

Quote:
"Soy Isoflavones" is a natural plant derived phytoestrogen (phyto means plant), which is an anti-estrogen, just like Clomid. Both are known as SERMs (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators). It works by fooling your brain into thinking its estrogen levels are low. This causes your body to reslease more FSH & LH which helps stimulate follicle production (same as Clomid).
TwoWeekWAIT.com - TTC Trends Newsletter - January 2006

Here is another link I found.
Soy isoflavone may damage fertility, finds new research
I think I need to do more reading on this. None of these links are from what I would consider credible sources.
__________________


Missing my Mommy Weightloss & Fitness girls. You're the best!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
October 8th, 2009, 04:45 PM
AngelM82's Avatar Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: McChord AFB, WA
Posts: 227
Thanks for looking Patty, I have done alot of researching myself and always seem to find the same types of things but nothing that can really help feel confident on how to take it myself. I'm anxious to start but just want to take it the very best time and dosage to have it be safe and most affective.

Thanks again!

I have read the same things about it not being good for fertility but in all the studies I have found it seemed to be when consumed in larger amounts for longer periods of time. The women taking this to help induce ovulation only take for 5 days max.
__________________




Angel (27)
Married to Ryan (30) since January 2008
TTC since June 2008, miscarriage July 2008, and a temporary break due to deployment but back at it since June 2009 with all we got!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
October 8th, 2009, 05:19 PM
OnesOnTheWay's Avatar #2 Due July 19, 2013
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southwest
Posts: 4,631
I took it from CD 1 - 5 this cycle. On CD 1 I took 200mg and I had the most killer headache from bedtime until 4pm the next day. My head was throoooobbing. It was horrible.
So on CD 2 I lowered the dosage to 160mg and I had NO side effects. So I took 160mg until CD 5.

We'll see if it works or not.. as I have long cycles and last cycle I didn't O until CD 38 or so.. and I took 80mg then. So it didn't really shorten my cycle any so that's why I bumped up the dosage.

If I were you I'd start with 80mg for one cycle and then if not increase..

Sorry I am no expert! I wish there were more information on this myself..

I do know one lady that use to post in TTC who got pregnant in the last few weeks took Soy.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7  
October 8th, 2009, 05:32 PM
AngelM82's Avatar Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: McChord AFB, WA
Posts: 227
Thanks for looking Jen, so you took it at night? Did you take it with food also? I had just read that people suggested both of those things so wondered from someone first hand. I appriciate your imput, your last cycle sounds like mine. Hopefully we both are able to O sooner this time around. Good luck!
__________________




Angel (27)
Married to Ryan (30) since January 2008
TTC since June 2008, miscarriage July 2008, and a temporary break due to deployment but back at it since June 2009 with all we got!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
October 8th, 2009, 05:55 PM
kbpeanut's Avatar Scooter!
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: san diego, ca
Posts: 12,174
For what it's worth...I started taking soy this cycle, and my O (or suspected O...have yet to confirm with FF crosshairs, but I'm pretty darn sure when it was)...anyhow...my O came much earlier than normal. Not sure if it's related or not, but thought I'd mention it!
__________________



Thanks *Kiliki* for my amazingly perfect siggy!


05.24.2011



Our TTC Journey | View my pregnancy journals here or here
Reply With Quote
  #9  
October 8th, 2009, 06:02 PM
AngelM82's Avatar Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: McChord AFB, WA
Posts: 227
Thanks Karin, that's sure what I'm hoping for! Cut these super long cycles down a bit. Plus DH is leaving for two weeks to Texas for work at the beginning of November so I am praying I can O before he leaves!

Did you girls feel or notice any side affects besides the horrible headache Jen said she had when she took too much the first time? Did it affect your temps or anything like that?
__________________




Angel (27)
Married to Ryan (30) since January 2008
TTC since June 2008, miscarriage July 2008, and a temporary break due to deployment but back at it since June 2009 with all we got!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
October 8th, 2009, 06:02 PM
Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: York, PA
Posts: 5,771
I took it this cycle from CD5 til CD9. I don't know whether I O'd yet or not. But, I wasn't taking it to O earlier. I forget where it was that I read it...but I read that it makes your O stronger, and I just wanted more fertile CM, and I definitely got that. Hopefully in a few days I'll have a better idea of when I did or will O. I didn't get any headaches with it, but I also took it at night before I went to bed. I just took one pill each day and the pills I bought are 100mg each. Hope that helps some!
__________________




Mommy to Keagan - June 2008, Benny - October 2010 and Liam - June 2012
Reply With Quote
  #11  
October 8th, 2009, 06:05 PM
AngelM82's Avatar Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: McChord AFB, WA
Posts: 227
Awesome, thanks for your experience with it Alana! Great to know it helps with the CM! I am thinking I'm going to get preseed just to be safe but I was also considering using Mucinex to help that too, but we'll see.
__________________




Angel (27)
Married to Ryan (30) since January 2008
TTC since June 2008, miscarriage July 2008, and a temporary break due to deployment but back at it since June 2009 with all we got!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
October 8th, 2009, 06:11 PM
kbpeanut's Avatar Scooter!
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: san diego, ca
Posts: 12,174
Oh yeah, after reading Alana's post...I remembered that I got a TON of EWCM this cycle, and I never have any CM, let alone EWCM!

I didn't have any side effects at all. I took it at night after dinner, so that might have prevented any side effects.

Good luck!
__________________



Thanks *Kiliki* for my amazingly perfect siggy!


05.24.2011



Our TTC Journey | View my pregnancy journals here or here
Reply With Quote
  #13  
October 8th, 2009, 06:14 PM
Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: York, PA
Posts: 5,771
I really think that the mucinex has helped a lot in giving me more CM. I was having much more wet and EWCM than usual before I started taking the mucinex, but since I started taking it, it seems to have given me even more.
This cycle I'm trying a few new things, so it's hard to say what caused what!
__________________




Mommy to Keagan - June 2008, Benny - October 2010 and Liam - June 2012
Reply With Quote
  #14  
October 8th, 2009, 06:17 PM
AngelM82's Avatar Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: McChord AFB, WA
Posts: 227
Perfect thanks Karin, that helps so much! I think that is what i will do, too. Good luck with your cycle!!
__________________




Angel (27)
Married to Ryan (30) since January 2008
TTC since June 2008, miscarriage July 2008, and a temporary break due to deployment but back at it since June 2009 with all we got!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
October 9th, 2009, 11:16 AM
jenine's Avatar Super Mommy
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 526
I did a quick search on PubMed and found there are quite a few articles that assessed the effects of soy on menstrual length, LH/FSH levels and other hormones in premenstrual women. Not all of them were particularly rigorous or had the sample sizes you'd like to see for a really conclusive finding, but taken as a whole the answer seems to be that

(a) in many studies the soy didn't have any significant effect

and

(b) in the studies where there was an effect, usually it was to LENGTHEN the menstrual cycle length. This was through a lengthening of the follicular phase, not the luteal phase, and was caused by supression of LH and FSH, so ovulation was delayed.

There were a couple of studies that showed earlier ovulation and shorter cycles, but by far the majority showed no effect at all, or the opposite of what you want.

So, I'm not sure where this idea is coming from that using soy will shorten your cycle or make you ovulate sooner. Sorry to say the literature doesn't seem to bear it out, although I could certainly be wrong so let me know if you have citations speaking to that. Now I'm interested, so I'd be up for checking out citations I didn't come across!

I won't list the citations for all the papers I looked at here, but let me know if you want them.

The only one I would recommend is this one, because it is a meta analysis (meaning they did the leg work for you and summarized the results from 47 studies) and also it is the newest:

Effects of soy protein and isoflavones on circulating hormone concentrations in pre- and post-menopausal women: a systematic review and meta-analysis. Hooper L et al. Human Reproductive Update. (Jul-Aug;15(4):423-40 2009)
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Expecting #1 in Sept 2010!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
October 9th, 2009, 11:22 AM
jenine's Avatar Super Mommy
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 526
One more thing, Angel - as you pointed out, most (I think all?) of these studies were looking at consistent soy or phytoestrogen intake over the course of the whole cycle, because they were not trying to determine the impact on fertility. For the most part they were looking to see how it effected the cycle with regard to fp length as that can impact breast cancer risk.

Maybe there is a different effect if you only take it for 5 days at the start of your cycle, but I didn't see any studies on that.

I would say that is why you are not seeing anything about the dosage that is recommended. No data on that so far as I can see.
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Expecting #1 in Sept 2010!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
October 9th, 2009, 12:22 PM
AngelM82's Avatar Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: McChord AFB, WA
Posts: 227
Jenine, I came across info like this as well but I seemed to read this sort of thing when women consumed large amounts of it regularly. I couldnt find information against it when taking for strictly the 5 days other than other women stating that they told their doctor they tried it and that it was probably ok for that short period of time.
I seemed to read over and over the similar two types of findings; that it would have the negative affect that TTC women want when taking it for a longer period of time and other the other hand, taking it for a short period of time early on will trick the body into thinking it has an estrogen shortage once stopping taking it, so that is "supposed" to be what causes the earlier ovulation.

So all in all, I definately think you are right that this is why I haven't found anything to help decide on the dosages and such. I had pretty much just hoped to hear from other ladies first hand their own experiences and how they chose their dosage and when to take it.

I appriciate your looking for more data on it, I just wish there was more out there. Because of how much I have read women talking about it and taking it, I am suprised there hasnt been more studies on taking it short term to induce ovulation.
__________________




Angel (27)
Married to Ryan (30) since January 2008
TTC since June 2008, miscarriage July 2008, and a temporary break due to deployment but back at it since June 2009 with all we got!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
October 9th, 2009, 12:38 PM
jenine's Avatar Super Mommy
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 526
Yup, I could find nothing in the academic journals on using phytoestrogens to induce ovulation. My guess is that there is more money for breast cancer research than for infertility...

The amounts that were taken in those articles seem to be around the same amount as everyone is mentioning taking here, maybe 50-150 mg. So I think it's less to do with the amount and more to do with the time in your cycle you take it.

One thing that most certainly differs is that the research seems to be based on eating soy-rich foods (or flax in some cases), rather than a supplement. Not sure how this would change things.

In any case, I don't think it could hurt you too much since many of the articles showed no effect at all. BUT, that being said, I think you should see your doctor about your cycles and let him/her know about your use of these supplements.

I think you did mention that your plan is already to go to your doctor after charting for a bit so I guess I'm just seconding that plan
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Expecting #1 in Sept 2010!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
October 9th, 2009, 06:21 PM
Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: York, PA
Posts: 5,771
When I was researching it I didn't find any reliable articles about taking it as you would Clomid. I mostly just found posts from women who had tried it/were interested in trying it...much like this post. I googled "soy isoflavones clomid" and I found some stuff.
__________________




Mommy to Keagan - June 2008, Benny - October 2010 and Liam - June 2012
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
soy isoflavones

Topic Tools Search this Topic
Search this Topic:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:13 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0