[PrettyMommy]

I am so confused and upset right now. My chart on FF was saying that I O'd on day 16 but after putting in my temp for this morning it changed and now says that I O'd on day 19. I hardly ever O that late and I usually do O on day 16. The most frustrating thing about this is that I didn't use OPK's this month and I was advised to do so by my OBGYN so that I could go have a progesterone and thyroid test done around 7 DPO. I was about to go have the test taken tomorrow but now I don't know what to do or when to have it taken. Should I just skip the test this month and wait until next month when I use an OPK to get a more accurate idea of when O was?

[ShawnaCAN]

I am so confused and upset right now. My chart on FF was saying that I O'd on day 16 but after putting in my temp for this morning it changed and now says that I O'd on day 19. I hardly ever O that late and I usually do O on day 16. The most frustrating thing about this is that I didn't use OPK's this month and I was advised to do so by my OBGYN so that I could go have a progesterone and thyroid test done around 7 DPO. I was about to go have the test taken tomorrow but now I don't know what to do or when to have it taken. Should I just skip the test this month and wait until next month when I use an OPK to get a more accurate idea of when O was?[/b]

Just popping in here, I'm an instructor with the Billings Ovulation Method. If I can get a little more information about your CM, we can probably narrow this down and you can still get your test this cycle (your temps are very unusual). If that information is not available, then you might have to wait until next cycle.

Were there any days that you noticed feeling very wet or lubricative? If so, which ones? And was there a point that you noticed an abrupt change to not feeling wet/slippery anymore? If so, when?

Please feel free to PM me if you'd rather discuss all that privately.

[SummerRose]

It might be, because of the dip on CD19, if you take it out, does it do anything??? As well FF like to give GH and then take them away or change them so maybe give it a few days

[PrettyMommy]

Just popping in here, I'm an instructor with the Billings Ovulation Method. If I can get a little more information about your CM, we can probably narrow this down and you can still get your test this cycle (your temps are very unusual). If that information is not available, then you might have to wait until next cycle.

Were there any days that you noticed feeling very wet or lubricative? If so, which ones? And was there a point that you noticed an abrupt change to not feeling wet/slippery anymore? If so, when?

Please feel free to PM me if you'd rather discuss all that privately.
[/b]

I noticed some creamy CM around day 14 to 16 then it stopped and then I noticed some yesterday and the day before. But today I am dry. The thing about it is that I don't hardly get any CM anymore these days. And over the last 6 months it is becoming less and less. I never get EWCM, although I use to. It's almost like I am gradually drying up more and more.

[PrettyMommy]

It might be, because of the dip on CD19, if you take it out, does it do anything??? As well FF like to give GH and then take them away or change them so maybe give it a few days [/b]

You were right about the dip. I took that temp out and it went back to O being on day 16. Wonder if I should just leave it out. It was only a slight dip.

[ShawnaCAN]

I noticed some creamy CM around day 14 to 16 then it stopped and then I noticed some yesterday and the day before. But today I am dry. The thing about it is that I don't hardly get any CM anymore these days. And over the last 6 months it is becoming less and less. I never get EWCM, although I use to. It's almost like I am gradually drying up more and more.[/b]

Mucus doesn't have to look like the EWCM in textbooks or popular websites to be capable of nourishing/transporting sperm cells. Every woman has her own unique mucus patterns, so sometimes those images can be misleading because there is such a wide range of the types of mucus women experience. In fact, many women "see" very little with the naked eye - but we are all so sensitive down there that we can feel the presence of mucus as a wetness or slipperiness when it would take 10 times the amount to see without a microscope. This can also produce a feeling of lubrication when you wipe - even if there is little or none that you can actually see. Does your creamy CM ever do that - make you feel really wet or slippery?

It is strange if you used to notice visible EWCM before and are noticing less now. Hormonal contraceptives can damage the cervix and a lingering effect of discontinuing them can be decreased CM - but that obviously isn't a factor if you've been TTC for awhile. Clomid and some other medications can also inhibit mucus production. Any chance you've increased the use of allergy medications that contain antihistamines over the last few months?

[PrettyMommy]

Mucus doesn't have to look like the EWCM in textbooks or popular websites to be capable of nourishing/transporting sperm cells. Every woman has her own unique mucus patterns, so sometimes those images can be misleading because there is such a wide range of the types of mucus women experience. In fact, many women "see" very little with the naked eye - but we are all so sensitive down there that we can feel the presence of mucus as a wetness or slipperiness when it would take 10 times the amount to see without a microscope. This can also produce a feeling of lubrication when you wipe - even if there is little or none that you can actually see. Does your creamy CM ever do that - make you feel really wet or slippery?

It is strange if you used to notice visible EWCM before and are noticing less now. Hormonal contraceptives can damage the cervix and a lingering effect of discontinuing them can be decreased CM - but that obviously isn't a factor if you've been TTC for awhile. Clomid and some other medications can also inhibit mucus production. Any chance you've increased the use of allergy medications that contain antihistamines over the last few months?
[/b]

I do get the wet/slippery sensation. I got it around day 14 through 16 and also about a day or two ago. I haven't taken any type of medications at all since I stopped using the Ortho Evra patch 3 years ago. I really think that patch through my body off. I haven't been the same since then. I don't take anything for allergies or any fertility meds at all.

[ShawnaCAN]

I do get the wet/slippery sensation. I got it around day 14 through 16 and also about a day or two ago. I haven't taken any type of medications at all since I stopped using the Ortho Evra patch 3 years ago. I really think that patch through my body off. I haven't been the same since then. I don't take anything for allergies or any fertility meds at all.[/b]

Yeah, the patch is yucksville. The effects can last so much longer than people realize. But it's a very good sign that you do notice wetness/slipperiness. When lack of CM is impeding a couple from conceiving, it's when there isn't even that wetness/lubrication. As long as you have that, you're fine! Just for future reference, if your temps ever confuse you again - you can always go by that slippery sensation. The last day you feel slippery, prior to an abrupt change to feeling much drier - is the day closest to ovulation (no matter what you might see).

[PrettyMommy]

Yeah, the patch is yucksville. The effects can last so much longer than people realize. But it's a very good sign that you do notice wetness/slipperiness. When lack of CM is impeding a couple from conceiving, it's when there isn't even that wetness/lubrication. As long as you have that, you're fine! Just for future reference, if your temps ever confuse you again - you can always go by that slippery sensation. The last day you feel slippery, prior to an abrupt change to feeling much drier - is the day closest to ovulation (no matter what you might see).
[/b]

Thanks a ton for the help. Do you think I could still be having effects from the patch after 3 years? I stopped usinf it in July or August of 2004.

[ShawnaCAN]

Thanks a ton for the help. Do you think I could still be having effects from the patch after 3 years? I stopped usinf it in July or August of 2004.[/b]

It's hard to say. I have a book that is a collection of studies about the long term effects of mainstream hormonal contraceptives, including data on secondary infertility. It's a bit older though and doesn't include anything about Ortho Evra. It does comment on regular dose combination BCP's and cites research that shows impairment to fertility lasting as long as 48 months (4 years) in nulliparous women aged 25-29, but up to 72 months (6 years) in women 30-34. The impairment wasn't focused so much on ovulation, most women begin ovulating again fairly quickly..but rather on the damage to the cervix and it's ability to produce mucus. Ortho Evra contains 60% more estrogen than regular combination BCP's, so it's not unreasonable to deduce that the long term effects could be similar.

The thing is, if you have had good quality mucus since stopping the patch and the lack of it is a relatively new thing - then I don't think it would still be an effect. But if you noticed good mucus before the patch, and in the 3 years since you stopped it you haven't had the same quality mucus - then yes, it's likely a lingering effect.

I think Shawna gave you some really good advice. I am leaning towards CD16, but not sure...good luck!

[PrettyMommy]

It's hard to say. I have a book that is a collection of studies about the long term effects of mainstream hormonal contraceptives, including data on secondary infertility. It's a bit older though and doesn't include anything about Ortho Evra. It does comment on regular dose combination BCP's and cites research that shows impairment to fertility lasting as long as 48 months (4 years) in nulliparous women aged 25-29, but up to 72 months (6 years) in women 30-34. The impairment wasn't focused so much on ovulation, most women begin ovulating again fairly quickly..but rather on the damage to the cervix and it's ability to produce mucus. Ortho Evra contains 60% more estrogen than regular combination BCP's, so it's not unreasonable to deduce that the long term effects could be similar.

The thing is, if you have had good quality mucus since stopping the patch and the lack of it is a relatively new thing - then I don't think it would still be an effect. But if you noticed good mucus before the patch, and in the 3 years since you stopped it you haven't had the same quality mucus - then yes, it's likely a lingering effect.
[/b]

I noticed the lack of mucus after using the patch. I think it messed my system up. I had great mucus before then. I didn't know what it was back then because I didn't educate myself so much back then about ttc. But I distinctly remember seeing it and wondering "What the heck is this snot like stuff when I wipe!" It use to be a whole lot of it and it was stretchy and looked like eggwhites or snot. Sorry if TMI. But every since that ###### patch I only see a limited amount of lotion or creamy like mucus and it's only for a couple days. Sometimes it's really thick and sticky and it stays kind of like that. It's almost like paste. I don't know what happened or what I can do to even get back to normal. You have given me great advice though, My own OB hasn't even given me advice this well. Thank you soooo much. I would love to know the name of that book you have with the studies. The more I educate myself maybe the sooner I can beat this seconary infertility.

I think Shawna gave you some really good advice. I am leaning towards CD16, but not sure...good luck![/b]

Yeah her advice is great! I'm leaning towards day 16 also. So I am going to go ahead and have my progesterone and thyroid test done tomorrow morning. Wish me luck!

[ShawnaCAN]

I noticed the lack of mucus after using the patch. I think it messed my system up. I had great mucus before then. I didn't know what it was back then because I didn't educate myself so much back then about ttc. But I distinctly remember seeing it and wondering "What the heck is this snot like stuff when I wipe!" It use to be a whole lot of it and it was stretchy and looked like eggwhites or snot. Sorry if TMI. But every since that ###### patch I only see a limited amount of lotion or creamy like mucus and it's only for a couple days. Sometimes it's really thick and sticky and it stays kind of like that. It's almost like paste. I don't know what happened or what I can do to even get back to normal. You have given me great advice though, My own OB hasn't even given me advice this well. Thank you soooo much. I would love to know the name of that book you have with the studies. The more I educate myself maybe the sooner I can beat this seconary infertility.[/b]

It's called "A Consumer's Guide to the Pill and Other Drugs" by John B. Wilkes. It doesn't really cover treatment solutions though, it's more of a FYI kind of book - just so people are aware of the long term risks. http://www.amazon.com/Consumers-Guide-Pill...s/dp/1890712256

Here's a bit of information about cervical mucus, it only includes a tiny portion about mucus production following Pill-use (though for the sake of this situation, as I mentioned before..we can assume that Ortho Evra has a similar effect). Click on tab 9.http://www.woomb.org/omrrca/bulletin...iscovery.shtml

When I was having trouble with my cycles - not for TTC purposes, but just in general - we worked with a doctor who specializes in NaPro Technology. It deals with a lot these kinds of issues. Their motivation is to get to the bottom of WHY your body isn't doing what it's supposed to and fix the root of the problem, instead of just trying to cover up the problem. For example, messed up cycles. Instead of covering that up with BCP's, they get to bottom of WHY they are messed and up seek to fix that. Or if a woman's not ovulating, rather than jumping on the fertility drug bandwagon, they try to find out WHY and fix it so she can ovulate on her own. I know that enhancing mucus production is one of the areas they work in. If you're interested, here's a website about it. http://www.naprotechnology.com/infertility.htm. It might be worth looking into if your OB isn't quite sure where to go with this. And no, I don't work for them...LOL. Was just very happy with the in-depth assistance they gave me. They've helped a lot of couples conceive on their own, even couples who have failed IVF attempts.

Keep us posted about your progesterone results!

[PrettyMommy]

It's called "A Consumer's Guide to the Pill and Other Drugs" by John B. Wilkes. It doesn't really cover treatment solutions though, it's more of a FYI kind of book - just so people are aware of the long term risks. http://www.amazon.com/Consumers-Guide-Pill...s/dp/1890712256

Here's a bit of information about cervical mucus, it only includes a tiny portion about mucus production following Pill-use (though for the sake of this situation, as I mentioned before..we can assume that Ortho Evra has a similar effect). Click on tab 9.http://www.woomb.org/omrrca/bulletin...iscovery.shtml

When I was having trouble with my cycles - not for TTC purposes, but just in general - we worked with a doctor who specializes in NaPro Technology. It deals with a lot these kinds of issues. Their motivation is to get to the bottom of WHY your body isn't doing what it's supposed to and fix the root of the problem, instead of just trying to cover up the problem. For example, messed up cycles. Instead of covering that up with BCP's, they get to bottom of WHY they are messed and up seek to fix that. Or if a woman's not ovulating, rather than jumping on the fertility drug bandwagon, they try to find out WHY and fix it so she can ovulate on her own. I know that enhancing mucus production is one of the areas they work in. If you're interested, here's a website about it. http://www.naprotechnology.com/infertility.htm. It might be worth looking into if your OB isn't quite sure where to go with this. And no, I don't work for them...LOL. Was just very happy with the in-depth assistance they gave me. They've helped a lot of couples conceive on their own, even couples who have failed IVF attempts.

Keep us posted about your progesterone results!

Thanks for the links! I took the prog test and spoke with my OB's nurse this morning. She sais everything looked fine to her but she was going to have the doctor look at it and see what she thought. She is suppose to call me back. Didn't get a call back today so I will see what happens tomorrow but so far all is looking ok in that department. Just have to have DH go get a S/A now and then go from there. I'm in my 2WW right now and hoping that I get a BFP and can stop going through all of this. We will see what happens.
[/b]

[sjkduke]

Shawna, you're awesome!

Glad that you got to talk to your OB finally. Hope you get some answers soon--but it is really good that you're having EWCM or wetness--that's a great sign!

Good luck!