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  #1  
February 5th, 2010, 08:45 AM
Kelllilee's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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After taking a friend to a LLL meeting I mentioned to her that she might consider going into labor naturally before having her c/s (a whole OTHER issue and one I'm not comfortable discussing with her) in order to benefit BFing. She's been unable (and I use that word lightly) to BFd her other 3 children and really wants to this time around and I've offered to help as much as I can. I mentioned that maybe letting labor start on its own would jump start the hormones that will help her body produce milk.

last night she sends me this message:

Quote:
had my doctor's appointment today and
asked him about going into labor on my own. He said after one c-section
or maybe even 2, it may be an option. After
three, though, there are basically three scars across my uterus, and
there's no way to know what it could handle. Even mild labor could
cause problems or make me rupture. He said the risks of poor lung
development are so slim, he prefers to schedule plenty early to reduce
risk of rupture. And honestly, what the teacher lady said about labor
benefiting the child is bunk. Some people get some WEIRD ideas...


sigh... trying to formulate a response that isn't offensive... I just can't let it go without saying something.
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  #2  
February 5th, 2010, 09:13 AM
moon~maiden's Avatar Cheryl~ birth truster
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ugh....well, you might be able to find something in here to share with her. I doubt you want to share the whole article with her though.

Ecstatic Birth: The Hormonal Blueprint of Labor | mothering
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  #3  
February 5th, 2010, 09:44 AM
lilflower
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I'm not sure if I can help you respond either. I feel bad that she really thinks that when there is so much information proving otherwise....
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  #4  
February 5th, 2010, 11:18 AM
Sk8ermaiden's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Some people...OMG.

You all know I went though my entire labor before the c/s. I hear a lot in ICAN about delayed milk, but mine was in in three days.

Unless it was a dire medical reason, I would never schedule a c/s, even if I needed one. With three scars I would be heading in the second labor started though, and I can understand how some people would not be comfortable waiting. As for scheduling it really early and not believing in the benefits of labor. Well some people are happy in their ignorant little worlds. Science what?
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  #5  
February 5th, 2010, 11:18 AM
TheOtherMichelle's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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What part of it bothers you so much? I hate to say it, but I think it might be better just to let it go. I don't know.. I'm hesitating because I don't want to offend anyone.
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  #6  
February 5th, 2010, 12:50 PM
Kelllilee's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Here's what I'm sending to her:

"As far as labor/birth and whatnot... I really really don't want to come off in a bad way because I know you trust your doctor and are comfortable with him (or at least I hope you do) but there is a LOT of hard scientific evidence to the contrary of what he told you. I don't want to go into a lot of detail unless you want the information, which I can get for you if you want to do your own research on the subject. I'm a big advocate for educating oneself about birth. I would just feel bad if I didn't at least offer the information..."

I'm okay with her decision to have a ERCS. I can understand where she's coming from. What bothers me is more what her OB said because so much of it is incorrect. The risks of rupture do not increase significantly after the second c/s and there is a very real risk of immature lung development if they do it early. I think she's the type to blindly follow whatever her doctor says (which is why she's had 3 c/s), so I feel bad if I dont' at least let her know there is other information out there...
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  #7  
February 5th, 2010, 07:47 PM
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I think how you responded was VERY respectful so kudos for being able to put something together like that. You put the ball in her court......

As for the scheduled section...I have heard from many moms who have labored and had a c-section AND had scheduled with no labor that the scheduled section was much easier to recover from as far as their abdomen was concerned.

I would think though, from an NCB standpoint, that after 3 sections they would just not want to augment labor in any way...because it is the pit that really could do a number on her uterus...not natural gradual labor. Plus if she goes into the hospital right away she will be monitored. The only thing is they would probably push her to get an epi way early which will slow labor and then the dominoes begin to fall.

*sigh* Sometimes situations are just so difficult I just shake my head and think "i'm glad thats not me!"

You are a good friend. It is so hard to accept when people we care about don't WANT to learn.
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  #8  
February 5th, 2010, 08:15 PM
Kelllilee's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I've heard the opposite from people too that going into labor before the c/s was easier for recovery, it probably just depends on the individual. I'm sure that if she waited they wouldn't augment or anything to encourage labor, they'd just take her straight in for the c/s. I just think for me, personally, I would rather wait and go into labor to be sure the baby was developmentally ready to be born and to trigger the birth hormones.
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  #9  
February 5th, 2010, 08:41 PM
The Purple Butterfly's Avatar Stacey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelllilee View Post
I've heard the opposite from people too that going into labor before the c/s was easier for recovery, it probably just depends on the individual. I'm sure that if she waited they wouldn't augment or anything to encourage labor, they'd just take her straight in for the c/s. I just think for me, personally, I would rather wait and go into labor to be sure the baby was developmentally ready to be born and to trigger the birth hormones.
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~Anastasia (14) C/S, 8lbs 7oz, 20.5"~
Noah (11) C/S, 8lbs 12oz, 19"~
Oliver (5) VBA2C, 7lbs 3oz, 19.5" ~ Grayson (10/16/13) 2VBA2C, 9lbs 12oz, 22"
born sleeping at 39w pg; Protein C def, FVL, PAI-1 , & MTHFR
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  #10  
February 5th, 2010, 08:44 PM
Sk8ermaiden's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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To be totally honest (even though it goes against what I'd WANT to say as a NCBer), I have almost never heard a mom say a scheduled section was harder. AT my ICAN meetings, on the ICAN list and forums...the story is always the same. Scheduled section equals easier recovery, and with every section you have (scheduled or not) the recovery gets easier (although the chances of complications go up). There are deviations, of course, but that is the norm from all the hundreds of stories I've heard.

I don't think talking about her VBA3C is even on this planet. No OB will touch her and most midwives won't either. There is considerable risk. I'm as hardcore about VBAC as they come, but I don't think even I would attempt it with 3c/s.
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  #11  
February 5th, 2010, 08:58 PM
Kelllilee's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I'm in no way talking/encouraging her to VBA3C, not sure why that came up... that's a very personal decision that I feel I have no place discussing with her.
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  #12  
February 5th, 2010, 09:08 PM
Sk8ermaiden's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I know you didn't. That part was directed more toward what JnJ's mommy was saying.
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  #13  
February 6th, 2010, 09:08 AM
Aeterna's Avatar Super Speshil
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Perhaps she should read this article on late pretern infants:

Quote:
Changes initiated over the last year and a half there, Loughead said, were in response to studies indicating that even a full-term baby of 38 weeks’ gestation has double the mortality rate of a 40-week infant.
Considering elective c-sections are often done early.

As for VBA2+C, I know of a handful of mamas that had HBA2+C. Good article on VBA2+C. It definitely is a personal decision and it's extremely tough to find a provider willing to attend a vaginal birth after multiple c-sections, but there are providers that 'allow' it and midwives that attend such births.
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Last edited by Aeterna; February 6th, 2010 at 09:17 AM.
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  #14  
February 6th, 2010, 03:05 PM
Kelllilee's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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She took it the wrong way... sigh....
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  #15  
February 6th, 2010, 09:32 PM
The Purple Butterfly's Avatar Stacey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk8ermaiden View Post
I don't think talking about her VBA3C is even on this planet. No OB will touch her and most midwives won't either. There is considerable risk. I'm as hardcore about VBAC as they come, but I don't think even I would attempt it with 3c/s.
My OB has done them and the highest one he's done was a VBA5C. He has no qualms about doing them either. Now I know that it's not the norm but there ARE OBs who will do it. The 3 or 4 URs that he's experienced in over 20yrs of practice.... NONE were from women who've had more than a VBAC... one was a PP UR (odd I know) and another was a first time mama. He's done MANY breech deliveries as well. So, while some may not be comfortable in recommending VBAMC's, they can be done safely and successfully.
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~Anastasia (14) C/S, 8lbs 7oz, 20.5"~
Noah (11) C/S, 8lbs 12oz, 19"~
Oliver (5) VBA2C, 7lbs 3oz, 19.5" ~ Grayson (10/16/13) 2VBA2C, 9lbs 12oz, 22"
born sleeping at 39w pg; Protein C def, FVL, PAI-1 , & MTHFR
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  #16  
February 6th, 2010, 11:08 PM
Sk8ermaiden's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I know they can be. But it is a risk, and one that every mother has to research and decide for herself. And I would never fault a mom who felt the risk was too great after 3 Cs (or one even, although I think it's perfectly safe).

And I guess I am coming from where I live, where no provider will touch you after 3Cs. One person in the midwifery community used to do it, but she had a UR loss in a VBA4C and will no longer do them after 2C. They'll all do them after 2C but no more. I think there are 2 OBs (out of the thousands in the city) who will give a woman a decent shot at a VBAC after 2Cs. Heck, there are only 6 or so providers in the entire city who will give you a real shot at VBAC at all.

Unless you have access to a dream OB like that, VBACing can be and usually is a giant battle. If you personally aren't sure if risks are worth it, that battle is one that's almost impossible to fight.

Oh, and when I said I'd never VBA3C - I would in a hospital, but no hospital in this city would let me, we're talking court order when you hit the door.

Just thoughts. As someone who plans to HBAC, I am acutely aware of the need to respect other people's choices and risk/benefit analysis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelllilee View Post
She took it the wrong way... sigh....
I'm sorry. It is so hard when you want to help and others don't want to hear.
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  #17  
February 7th, 2010, 02:39 PM
TheOtherMichelle's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk8ermaiden View Post
I know they can be. But it is a risk, and one that every mother has to research and decide for herself. And I would never fault a mom who felt the risk was too great after 3 Cs (or one even, although I think it's perfectly safe).

And I guess I am coming from where I live, where no provider will touch you after 3Cs. One person in the midwifery community used to do it, but she had a UR loss in a VBA4C and will no longer do them after 2C. They'll all do them after 2C but no more. I think there are 2 OBs (out of the thousands in the city) who will give a woman a decent shot at a VBAC after 2Cs. Heck, there are only 6 or so providers in the entire city who will give you a real shot at VBAC at all.

Unless you have access to a dream OB like that, VBACing can be and usually is a giant battle. If you personally aren't sure if risks are worth it, that battle is one that's almost impossible to fight.

Oh, and when I said I'd never VBA3C - I would in a hospital, but no hospital in this city would let me, we're talking court order when you hit the door.

Just thoughts. As someone who plans to HBAC, I am acutely aware of the need to respect other people's choices and risk/benefit analysis.



I'm sorry. It is so hard when you want to help and others don't want to hear.
Yup.. I've just found out that there are like 3 doctors in my HUGE metro area that will touch a vbac, and even then their policies are very conditional.

Do you think there's any chance that your friend feels helpless in her situation and doesn't want to be reminded of what she's missing? Maybe that's why she is so sensitive about it. Some people just have their heads up their arse when it comes to the truth about these things.. lol.. but in some cases it may be hard to face the truth when you have no choices.
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  #18  
February 7th, 2010, 05:15 PM
The Purple Butterfly's Avatar Stacey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk8ermaiden View Post
I know they can be. But it is a risk, and one that every mother has to research and decide for herself. And I would never fault a mom who felt the risk was too great after 3 Cs (or one even, although I think it's perfectly safe).

And I guess I am coming from where I live, where no provider will touch you after 3Cs. One person in the midwifery community used to do it, but she had a UR loss in a VBA4C and will no longer do them after 2C. They'll all do them after 2C but no more. I think there are 2 OBs (out of the thousands in the city) who will give a woman a decent shot at a VBAC after 2Cs. Heck, there are only 6 or so providers in the entire city who will give you a real shot at VBAC at all.

Unless you have access to a dream OB like that, VBACing can be and usually is a giant battle. If you personally aren't sure if risks are worth it, that battle is one that's almost impossible to fight.

Oh, and when I said I'd never VBA3C - I would in a hospital, but no hospital in this city would let me, we're talking court order when you hit the door.

Just thoughts. As someone who plans to HBAC, I am acutely aware of the need to respect other people's choices and risk/benefit analysis.

I'm sorry. It is so hard when you want to help and others don't want to hear.
ITA with you. I was just responding to the comment of "no OB will do a VBA3C". Other than my OB, there's only a few in all of Atlanta metro (almost 5mil people) that would even touch a VBAC never mind a VBAMC. No m/w will do more than a VBAC. Though homebirths with a m/w aren't legal here. (I sure do miss TX ) I wouldn't feel comfortable with doing a VBAMC in anywhere other than a hospital, but that's all preference I suppose.
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Stacey, wife to Allan & Mom to:
~Anastasia (14) C/S, 8lbs 7oz, 20.5"~
Noah (11) C/S, 8lbs 12oz, 19"~
Oliver (5) VBA2C, 7lbs 3oz, 19.5" ~ Grayson (10/16/13) 2VBA2C, 9lbs 12oz, 22"
born sleeping at 39w pg; Protein C def, FVL, PAI-1 , & MTHFR
Lavender Kate (5/20/14) 2.5oz, 6" Lost at 16w


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  #19  
February 8th, 2010, 08:39 AM
Earthy.Mama's Avatar .*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.
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Sorry she took it the wrong way. Maybe it will always be in the back of her mind and have her looking into it on her own though.
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