Log In Sign Up

Ina Gaskin; natural vrs home birth


Forum: Natural Childbirth

Notices

Welcome to the JustMommies Message Boards.

We pride ourselves on having the friendliest and most welcoming forums for moms and moms to be! Please take a moment and register for free so you can be a part of our growing community of mothers. If you have any problems registering please drop an email to boards@justmommies.com.

Our community is moderated by our moderation team so you won't see spam or offensive messages posted on our forums. Each of our message boards is hosted by JustMommies hosts, whose names are listed at the top each board. We hope you find our message boards friendly, helpful, and fun to be on!

Reply Post New Topic
  Subscribe To Natural Childbirth LinkBack Topic Tools Search this Topic Display Modes
  #1  
November 30th, 2011, 02:58 PM
Regular
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 51
So this is ALL so new to me, but I'm trying to soak up every bit of knowledge I can! When I first found out I was pregnant I immedietly started looking into what my 'options' are. It didnt take me long to decide that I am a healthy women, with a healthy body capable of managing a pregnancy so naturally a home birth with a skilled midwife was the way to go.

I've read all kinds of info on 'natural' childbirth, hospital births, etc etc and something dawned on me last night while listening to one of Ina May Gaskins podcasts. The word "natural childbirth" isn't really fitting when you are talking about still giving birth in a non-natural environment. It seems (rightfully so) that SO much of how the labor goes depends on the environment that trying to have a 'natural birth' in a hospital is easily stiffled..

AND to prevent any quarrels (still licking my wouds from the april DDC board, eek!) I just wanted you ladies to know that this post isnt directed at anyone in particular, I'm just curious from a general standpoint.

Maybe I have the wrong idea of what 'natural' should imply... What do you ladies think? For me, It's easy to see a natural birth at home, because of the plethora of options you have in your own environment, where I only think of being med free for a 'natural birth' in a hospital?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
November 30th, 2011, 03:06 PM
UrbanMomma's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Somewhere near Detroit, MI
Posts: 8,909
Send a message via Yahoo to UrbanMomma
I have had every type of birth there is I think after nine babies, including hospital births, homebirths and csections.
My opinion is the birth can be natural in a hospital setting if you limit the time you spend there. The longer you spend in the hospital the more someone will try to push interventions.
__________________
Jenifer....The Queen Bee
#12 is on the way
Reply With Quote
  #3  
November 30th, 2011, 03:45 PM
Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 0
From what I've read of Ina May Gaskin's - it is certainly easier to have a natural birth at home for most women- however the most important thing is that mom feels safe. SO if a woman feels safer at a hospital - she will have an easier time allowing her body to birth naturally. I think it has nothing to do with the physical setting- or at least how you or I interpret someone else's physical setting - but everything to do with how mom feels about her setting. Does that make sense?
As far as 'what is a natural birth?' I think it isn't something that is black and white. Like you only get the medal if you hide in a cave LOL! I think there are many variations on natural child birth - and it's more something we plan for and a philosophy towards birth than checking a certain number of boxes.
__________________

Thank you Kiliki for my first beautiful Siggie!

mom of 2 angels and an earth baby
Reply With Quote
  #4  
November 30th, 2011, 07:02 PM
Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bay Area CA
Posts: 19,074
I think the definition of natural childbirth varies depending on who you ask, and who's to say that someone else's definition isn't "natural"?

I've had a natural birth in the hospital with my first and a home birth with my 2nd. The hospital birth had no interventions, no medications/epidural, no IV, no constant monitoring, etc. I pushed when I wanted to, and was in the position that I wanted. I had no pressure from the nurses or CNM. DH, my best friend and I were alone for most of the birth until I felt the need to push and then the CNM and some nurses came in. I did delayed cord clamping, held Lily the second she came out and nursed right away. I was only at the hospital for about 3 hours before I delivered.

I don't consider my first birth any less natural than my home birth with my second. The only major difference to me was that I had to drive to the hospital, versus staying in my house.

The hospital I delivered at has a lot of women that come in for NCB though, so they have a lot of options and are very hands off.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #5  
November 30th, 2011, 07:18 PM
Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,030
I absolutely believe that you can have a natural birth at a hospital. Like the pp mentioned, some women don't feel comfortable having a home birth. That doesn't meant they are any less committed to a natural birth. Everyone's interpretations are different, and for some women, there is no choice but a hospital birth. A friend of mine planned to give birth at a freestanding birth center, but her water broke at 35 weeks, which legally prevents her from birthing there. She had a completely drug and intervention free birth at a hospital. She doesn't think of it as not being "natural." I think that setting yourself up for the belief that the only way you can have a "natural" birth is at home could be setting you up for problems. You never know when a transfer might be required. Yes, our bodies are made to do this, BUT that doesn't mean it NEVER happens. Also, in some areas it's just not possible for some women to have a home birth with a skilled midwife. If they are forced to go with a hospital or birth center, it doesn't make their birth any less natural.
__________________


*Thank you kiliki for the siggy!*


Mom to Kennedy (2/19/11) and Caleb (8/6/12) and Expecting #3 10/13/14
Life As We Know It
Reply With Quote
  #6  
November 30th, 2011, 07:29 PM
Mom.to.PinknBlue's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lame-o Illinois
Posts: 12,234
I have to agree with every girl that has posted here. You don't have to deliver at home or a free standing birth center for your labor and delivery to be considered natural. And birthing in a hospital does not make your efforts any less natural. Due to my medical history and being high risk, I HAVE to deliver in a hospital. But you better believe I will be doing it naturally. The birth of my daughter didn't go as planned, and I paid the consequences. I had allergic reactions to the epidural or pit, or even both. I was given benadryl and my daughter landed in the NICU. But you know what, I went natural and drug free for 7 1/2 hours. A half hour after the pit and epi were given, my daughter was born. Yes it didn't go as planned, but I am mighty proud of myself for going unmedicated for as long as I did.
I would give my right arm to have a home birth or a water birth. But due to medical reasons that will never happen. So please don't sit there and tell me that because I have to deliver in a hospital (for mine and my child's safety mind you), that I am failing at a natural birth.
__________________
Amelia: Wife to Ryan, Mama to Harleigh, with a boy on the way
Reply With Quote
  #7  
November 30th, 2011, 07:29 PM
Mom.to.PinknBlue's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lame-o Illinois
Posts: 12,234
I have to agree with every girl that has posted here. You don't have to deliver at home or a free standing birth center for your labor and delivery to be considered natural. And birthing in a hospital does not make your efforts any less natural. Due to my medical history and being high risk, I HAVE to deliver in a hospital. But you better believe I will be doing it naturally. The birth of my daughter didn't go as planned, and I paid the consequences. I had allergic reactions to the epidural or pit, or even both. I was given benadryl and my daughter landed in the NICU. But you know what, I went natural and drug free for 7 1/2 hours. A half hour after the pit and epi were given, my daughter was born. Yes it didn't go as planned, but I am mighty proud of myself for going unmedicated for as long as I did.
I would give my right arm to have a home birth or a water birth. But due to medical reasons that will never happen. So please don't sit there and tell me that because I have to deliver in a hospital (for mine and my child's safety mind you), that I am failing at a natural birth.
__________________
Amelia: Wife to Ryan, Mama to Harleigh, with a boy on the way
Reply With Quote
  #8  
November 30th, 2011, 07:46 PM
Sk8ermaiden's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,791
Here's the thing. The very most natural thing we could do would be to never take a pregnancy test. Never listen to a heartbeat or get an ultrasound. Not get tested for rhogham sensitivity. Never actually see a midwife or doctor. Not time contractions. Not worry about excess bleeding and not think twice about having broken water for days. But here's the kicker. The totally natural way ends up in tragedy a lot. Compared to modern birth? Like A LOT a lot.

So is it, in the very most technical sense, more "natural" to give birth at home, unassisted, under a tree? Maybe. But we all (any of us with sense) make some compromises to the naturalness in order to optimize our safety. Most homebirthers have a midwife. Most will get an ultrasound to make sure there is no placenta previa or giant omphalocele. Most moms will have at least some doppler or fetoscope monitoring in labor. Because all the data shows that this makes us and our babies safer.

Many moms will choose induction at 42 weeks and many will accept GD testing. Because the data on these, while not complete, is not completely reassuring.

And many moms will choose to birth in a hospital because they have medical conditions, no options, or simply want to. I am this time, after a homebirth attempt last time. Just because I WANT to.

Natural childbirth means NO DRUGS and usually implies that the mother wants as few interventions as she can manage. In the practical, modern sense of the word, a birth is just as natural no matter where mom has it, as long as she has no pain meds.
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #9  
November 30th, 2011, 08:26 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,088
I don't believe you intended it to sound this way but I think when there is the attitude of a birth can only be considered natural if ... Then there Is a spirit of competition "I was more crunchy than you because..."
I live further than we feel comfortable from a backup hospital (it could take An hour in traffic) and I had a terrible experience with the birth center that takes my insurance. So I ended up choosing a hospital and I had a fantastic birth it was no less natural than anyone else's. I think when we start nitpicking that "I only had one cervical check," or I was "only monitored for 3 minutes" we will end up with hurt feelings. My next child will also be born in the hospital. I felt every contraction was present for every push and my med free intervention free "natural" birth is one of the hardest things I have ever done and I might kick someone if they told me it wasn't natural because of the location.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
December 1st, 2011, 09:18 AM
BobbityBoo's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Left Coast
Posts: 816
Quote:
Originally Posted by sodagirl View Post
From what I've read of Ina May Gaskin's - it is certainly easier to have a natural birth at home for most women- however the most important thing is that mom feels safe. SO if a woman feels safer at a hospital - she will have an easier time allowing her body to birth naturally. I think it has nothing to do with the physical setting- or at least how you or I interpret someone else's physical setting - but everything to do with how mom feels about her setting. Does that make sense?
As far as 'what is a natural birth?' I think it isn't something that is black and white. Like you only get the medal if you hide in a cave LOL! I think there are many variations on natural child birth - and it's more something we plan for and a philosophy towards birth than checking a certain number of boxes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk8ermaiden View Post
Here's the thing. The very most natural thing we could do would be to never take a pregnancy test. Never listen to a heartbeat or get an ultrasound. Not get tested for rhogham sensitivity. Never actually see a midwife or doctor. Not time contractions. Not worry about excess bleeding and not think twice about having broken water for days. But here's the kicker. The totally natural way ends up in tragedy a lot. Compared to modern birth? Like A LOT a lot.

So is it, in the very most technical sense, more "natural" to give birth at home, unassisted, under a tree? Maybe. But we all (any of us with sense) make some compromises to the naturalness in order to optimize our safety. Most homebirthers have a midwife. Most will get an ultrasound to make sure there is no placenta previa or giant omphalocele. Most moms will have at least some doppler or fetoscope monitoring in labor. Because all the data shows that this makes us and our babies safer.

Many moms will choose induction at 42 weeks and many will accept GD testing. Because the data on these, while not complete, is not completely reassuring.

And many moms will choose to birth in a hospital because they have medical conditions, no options, or simply want to. I am this time, after a homebirth attempt last time. Just because I WANT to.

Natural childbirth means NO DRUGS and usually implies that the mother wants as few interventions as she can manage. In the practical, modern sense of the word, a birth is just as natural no matter where mom has it, as long as she has no pain meds.
Absolutely to both of these ladies!!
__________________


Thank you Kiliki for my wonderfull siggie!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
December 1st, 2011, 09:41 AM
Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 26,227
I think the other ladies said it very well. Everyone has thier own definition of what a natural birth is, or what a natural birth is to them. For me, I do feel more comfortable at home and am more likely to avoid interventions and medications if they aren't available. I have given birth in 3 different settings, a hospital, birth center and at home, so those were 3 different experiences I wouldn't consider my birth center birth any less natural because it wasn't at home. I think Sk8ermaiden said it best, even with a home many of us opt to have a midwife, monitor the baby's heartbeat with a dopplar and even have an u/s, all of which aren't completely natural either.
__________________
Andrea, mom to 3 beautiful girls - Abigail (8) Annabelle (5) and Alexis (3)

Expecting baby #4!



Reply With Quote
  #12  
December 1st, 2011, 01:48 PM
Regular
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 51
I really enjoyed reading all the responses on this topic.. It really helps in understanding all the 'jargon' and catch phrases for a women that has not yet given birth!

I didn't mean to imply that if you are in a hospital than you are automatically disallowed the term 'natural birth.' My initial confusion was simply about how much environment plays a role in a normal healthy birth. EVERY women I've talked to has said that the second they are 'on their back in the hospital' things tend to become much more painful. So my first inclination in to wonder in the hospital's atmosphere had anything to do with it?
Granted, at the same time just like people homes, hospitals too are varied widely and it all depends on the individual women and circumstances to dictate what feels safest/most comfortable.

I think I was a little thrown off by the difference between a "non-medicated birth" and a "natural birth?"
Reply With Quote
  #13  
December 1st, 2011, 02:27 PM
Sk8ermaiden's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,791
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProudPregnancy View Post
I really enjoyed reading all the responses on this topic.. It really helps in understanding all the 'jargon' and catch phrases for a women that has not yet given birth!

I didn't mean to imply that if you are in a hospital than you are automatically disallowed the term 'natural birth.' My initial confusion was simply about how much environment plays a role in a normal healthy birth. EVERY women I've talked to has said that the second they are 'on their back in the hospital' things tend to become much more painful. So my first inclination in to wonder in the hospital's atmosphere had anything to do with it?
Granted, at the same time just like people homes, hospitals too are varied widely and it all depends on the individual women and circumstances to dictate what feels safest/most comfortable.

I think I was a little thrown off by the difference between a "non-medicated birth" and a "natural birth?"
No, being ON THEIR BACK while in labor is what it has to do with. I wonder at the fact that your "first inclination" is to villainize the hospital. Wouldn't logic dictate that the the thing that changed - their position - is the culprit? They didn't say, "The second I got to the hospital" things got much more painful.

You will find that in the general consensus of this board, there is no difference between the two terms.
__________________



Last edited by Sk8ermaiden; December 1st, 2011 at 02:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
December 1st, 2011, 02:46 PM
Regular
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 51
Sk8ermaiden,
I'm certainly not trying to 'villanize' hospitals. I never stated that position, and certainly don't feel that way. Hospitals play an enormously important role in certain situations there is no doubt. I'm only referring to the vast majority of healthy, low risk births here.
Yes, I did assume a connection with being in that position (on their back) with the hospital simply because the two seem to be brought up with eachother much of the time.. For example, here is one of your quotes I saw in a previous post,

"It wasn't that bad." Like really, and truly manageable. The second though, that both of us had our backs hit a bed? (in the hospital), it was OVER. The immediate and total shift from manageable pain to overwhelming pan was astounding. And I immediately understood why most women giving birth in a hospital get an epidural. DO some women still manage a natural birth that way?"

So there it is in your own words. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you too are making some kind of connection between the your changed position to your back and the hospital?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
December 1st, 2011, 03:03 PM
Sk8ermaiden's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,791
Hospitals often like women to be on their backs in labor. It's easier for them. Informed women choose their hospitals well, and often have agreements with their care providers ahead of time. Most women who PLAN a natural birth in a hospital will not end up on their backs.

What this does say, is when you plan a homebirth or birth center birth, and need a transfer, you will be in whatever hospital at the mercy of whatever doctor (totally villainizing the accepting doctor there you will note, and if you hunt down my birth story, you'd see why. ) and you are much more likely to be on your back.

So I guess, unless you have a non-emergency transfer and are completely willing to make enemies of the staff treating you and your child, in a TRANSFER from a home or birth center to a hospital, you will almost certainly end up on your back.

If you plan a natural hospital birth from the start you will almost certainly have picked one from the start that lets you labor in comfortable positions.
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #16  
December 1st, 2011, 03:17 PM
Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bay Area CA
Posts: 19,074
Like I posted earlier, I was at a hospital with Lily and I was never flat on my back at all. I was able to get up and move around as much as I wanted to, just like I did when I had Violet at home.

Neither of my births were what I would consider painful at all.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #17  
December 1st, 2011, 03:21 PM
ChicaChels's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: I'm a husker girl :)
Posts: 16,335
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProudPregnancy View Post
So this is ALL so new to me, but I'm trying to soak up every bit of knowledge I can! When I first found out I was pregnant I immedietly started looking into what my 'options' are. It didnt take me long to decide that I am a healthy women, with a healthy body capable of managing a pregnancy so naturally a home birth with a skilled midwife was the way to go.

I've read all kinds of info on 'natural' childbirth, hospital births, etc etc and something dawned on me last night while listening to one of Ina May Gaskins podcasts. The word "natural childbirth" isn't really fitting when you are talking about still giving birth in a non-natural environment. It seems (rightfully so) that SO much of how the labor goes depends on the environment that trying to have a 'natural birth' in a hospital is easily stiffled..

AND to prevent any quarrels (still licking my wouds from the april DDC board, eek!) I just wanted you ladies to know that this post isnt directed at anyone in particular, I'm just curious from a general standpoint.

Maybe I have the wrong idea of what 'natural' should imply... What do you ladies think? For me, It's easy to see a natural birth at home, because of the plethora of options you have in your own environment, where I only think of being med free for a 'natural birth' in a hospital?


Is this a freaking joke
__________________

Maverick Jude
December 9, 2013
5:20PM 8lb3oz 20.5"
Hospital water birth
Reply With Quote
  #18  
December 1st, 2011, 03:30 PM
ChicaChels's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: I'm a husker girl :)
Posts: 16,335
30 hour long induction with my first. Amazing midwife who forced me not to lay in bed because each time I did the pain became way too hard to handle. I'd like to know how you define my first birth....cytotec, piton, magnesium...zero pain meeds...so obviously not unmedicated but by your rules, not natural either.


Or how about my second...54 hr of laboring at target, a casino buffet, the mall, a hotel...and getting to the hospital at 0638 and having a baby at 0652...no monitoring, no needles, not even admission or consent forms done before the birth since I walked in pushing...but gasp, he was born in a hospital so by your terminology he wasn't a natural birth...


Educate me oh wise one
__________________

Maverick Jude
December 9, 2013
5:20PM 8lb3oz 20.5"
Hospital water birth
Reply With Quote
  #19  
December 1st, 2011, 03:44 PM
Regular
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 51
Chica, your birth experience is your own... I'm not here to tell you ANYTHING about it. Perhaps you are glad to have had a midwive close to you in those times, perhaps you learned something in that experience to share?

I have no definate rules at all. Like i've stated many other times, This is my first pregnancy and I'm truly the ignorant one.

Twylite, It's so amazing to me that women can have such different birth experiences. I'm certainly going to be hopeful to have simular birth experiences as yourself!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
December 1st, 2011, 03:55 PM
Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,030
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProudPregnancy View Post
Chica, your birth experience is your own... I'm not here to tell you ANYTHING about it. Perhaps you are glad to have had a midwive close to you in those times, perhaps you learned something in that experience to share?

I have no definate rules at all. Like i've stated many other times, This is my first pregnancy and I'm truly the ignorant one.

Twylite, It's so amazing to me that women can have such different birth experiences. I'm certainly going to be hopeful to have simular birth experiences as yourself!
That's for sure.
__________________


*Thank you kiliki for the siggy!*


Mom to Kennedy (2/19/11) and Caleb (8/6/12) and Expecting #3 10/13/14
Life As We Know It
Reply With Quote
Reply

Topic Tools Search this Topic
Search this Topic:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:21 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0