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  #1  
June 8th, 2007, 04:08 PM
Tofu Bacon
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So this is my list of "issues" to either resolve with the midwife or duke it out at the hospital. She's completely onboard with an unmedicated, uninduced VBAC, but...

1. When to go to the hospital: She told me to go to the hospital when I first go into labor so my incision "can be monitored for rupture." She freely acknowledged that the risk is minimal, so why do I need to go so early, instead of laboring more comfortably at home? I don't want to risk our health, but at the same time I don't want to lay around the hospital and have silly restrictions put on me. Plus I don't want to be away from ds for too long either, since he isn't used to staying with anyone else for long periods of time, let alone overnight.

2. Monitoring & IV: The IV issue is pretty much settled, since I compromised with a harpin lock. I've made it clear that I will not lay and bed for continous monitory unless there is a legimate reason. But the monitoring leads me to #3...

3. Walking during labor: She says I would only be allowed to walk around the labor room so they can intermitently monitor the baby and my scar. Okay, maybe I'm being a big baby, but if I start to get antsy I'd like to be able to pace the halls.

4. The GBS issue: I was GBS positive with ds, and I just want to make sure she and/or the hospital don't follow the "once positive, always positive" dogma. I've been taking probiotics and fresh garlic to keep GBS at bay, so if I test negative this time around I don't want to be given unnecessary antibiotics because of some arbitrary rule.

5. Food/drink during labor: I do expect to be able to eat light foods and drink during labor, even if I have to sneak it in with me. I don't know the hospital's "policy" on that.

6. Delivery positions: I want to make sure no restrictions are placed. If I want to deliver hanging from the side of the bed then dang it, I will!

7. Time alone with baby: With my perfectly heathy ds, they took him away after maybe 15 or 20 minutes, without allowing me to attempt nursing him, and we didn't see him for several hours, after dh and I demanded to know where our child was. Turns out he was born right before a shift change and the new shift "forgot" to bring him back. That was just enough time for they to do all of the shots and procedures (before we had consented to them) and sneak him a couple of bottles of formula, even though I told them I was breastfeeding.

8. Newborn procedures: Kind of ties in with #7. I need to know exactly who handles newborn procedures so I can make sure nothing is done without our consent (like it was last time). We absolutely will not allow the routine Hep B vaccination, so I need to make sure the person in charge is aware of this (our exemption is signed, notarized and ready to go, as well as copies of the public health laws regarding exemptions). I have no issues with the newborn screening, since it really isn't invasive. The eye goop is unnecessary but still required by law, as is the Vitamin K injection. The state does not recognize any exemptions for them and the public health law says that the authorities will be called to see that the procedure is carried out if the parents protest. I checked with the local legislator and our hands are tied with this one, they won't even allow oral vitamin k in lieu of the injection. So...we are very much against this injection (unless medically necessary) because it carries its own set of risks (with the hospital is not laible for), so we would at the very least like some time with our new baby before these procedures are carried out against our will.

I *$%# hate New York and cannot wait to move away from here.
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  #2  
June 8th, 2007, 05:44 PM
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ok I will answer these the best I can.

1-when to go to the hospital- Don't go till you feel you should. Wait at home and labor there until you feel like you need to be with your midwife. You have obviously researched the risks and you know what they are, very minimal.

2-Monitoring and IV- You are in charge, if you don't want the monitoring or the iv or hep lock, don't allow them to do it. You are paying them, they aren't paying you to be there.

3-Walking during Labor- get up and walk, let them try to stop you. Again you are in charge. Plus if they want to monitor tell them to bring the doppler in the hall.

4-GBS-there is really no sure fire way to make sure that you are negative at the time of labor, unless they do a test right then, but then they aren't even 100%. Again if you don't want the antibiotics, tell them no. Make sure you do your research on babies born to GBS+ mothers so you have info to back up your reasons.

5-Food/drink during labor- sneak it in if you have to. Most hospitals offer ice chips and that is about all. I usually take stuff with me.

6-Delivery positions- Deliver your baby however you are most comfortable. If it is hanging over the edge of the bed then do it. If it is sitting on the toilet then do that. They are going to have a hard time moving a women in labor. Again you are in charge

7-Time alone with baby-Don't allow them to take the baby out of your room. If they insist, which I believe is against the law since it is your baby and not theirs, make sure you or dh go with. NEVER let the baby out of your site!

8-Newborn procedures- Same thing as 7, don't let the baby out of your site!! As for vaccinations in the state of New York, you can deny any and all!!! I have a friend that had a baby in New York at a hospital 2 years ago and denied all vaccinations and eye drops. No one was called to make sure the the procedures were carried out. I will pm you her email addy, she has a lot of info for you and she has also had a vba2c. She had 2 c-sections in the hospital and just had a home birth with a midwife 3 weeks ago. Her 2 youngest are free of all vaccinations and neither have had eye drops.

OK I hope all this has helped you.
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  #3  
June 8th, 2007, 05:55 PM
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I wanted to add that all their restrictions seem like they are trying to set you up for another c-section. It sounds like they are trying to find something wrong, so they can scare you into another c-section.
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  #4  
June 8th, 2007, 08:04 PM
Tofu Bacon
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That's what I'm thinking too . I'm just hoping that my midwife doesn't turn out to be a "med" wife...but I'm trying to give her the benefit of the doubt that she is just trying to work within the hospital rules...
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  #6  
June 8th, 2007, 08:45 PM
Tofu Bacon
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Even with a homebirth you may have trouble unless you have a midwife who is willing to skirt the law and say...inject a couch cushion instead of baby. I just contacted mylittlemonster's friend (thanks, Deb!) to find out how she got around the public health law. I had been researching for a while but the law seemed so iron clad, y/k? I tell ya, next baby I'm going to temporarily relocate out of state! With the whole vitamin k thing, yes most babies are born with a "deficiency" but even on the 1 in 10,000 chance that it results in bleeding, it spontaneously corrects itself with 72 hours. I am more than willing to give the baby oral vitamin k drops, which is much safer that the injection.
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  #7  
June 8th, 2007, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Wait a minute! I live in New York too and I was hoping to get away with no shots/eye stuff for my baby. I was trying to get myself into a birthing center within a hospital. Does that mean I now have to try for a home birth?[/b]
My friend was able to have a hospital birth, a c-section, and her daughter did not receive any shots or eye drops. If you want to contact her, pm me and I will give you her email. She has a lot of info that should be able to help you.
I will say that a home birth is always a good choice. Hospitals try to scare the crap out of you to get their way and threaten this and that. If you are not well informed they will beat you down.
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  #8  
June 8th, 2007, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Even with a homebirth you may have trouble unless you have a midwife who is willing to skirt the law and say...inject a couch cushion instead of baby. I just contacted mylittlemonster's friend (thanks, Deb!) to find out how she got around the public health law. I had been researching for a while but the law seemed so iron clad, y/k? I tell ya, next baby I'm going to temporarily relocate out of state! With the whole vitamin k thing, yes most babies are born with a "deficiency" but even on the 1 in 10,000 chance that it results in bleeding, it spontaneously corrects itself with 72 hours. I am more than willing to give the baby oral vitamin k drops, which is much safer that the injection.[/b]
You are very welcome. I know she received your email but at the time was heading to bed. She will most likely get back to you at some point tomorrow or very soon.

Here is one link I found with exemptions for New York, it says medical and religious exemptions are allowed. http://www.nvic.org/state-site/NewYork.htm It is the same here in Iowa and we use the religious exemption. According to the constitution, they can not question your religion. Also the constitution will back you with your rights to choose.

Best of luck and I hope Lauren is able to offer more info for you.
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  #9  
June 8th, 2007, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
I'm just hoping that my midwife doesn't turn out to be a "med" wife...but I'm trying to give her the benefit of the doubt that she is just trying to work within the hospital rules...[/b]

There may be nothing you can really do to get her to work with you , but I maybe if you can take this list along with the reasons for the things on them that may help . For example bring up " Delivery positions: I want to make sure no restrictions are placed " because Changing positions, and moving around during labor and birth, offers several benefits including :

Increased comfort and reduced pain for the mother

Enhanced sense of control

Helps with frequency, length and efficiency of contractions

Effects of gravity help baby to move down more quickly

Ensures a continuous oxygen supply to the baby

Can reduce the length of labor.

I know some doc's or midwives may not take you too seriously if they think you just don't know and are just being fashionably picky , but if you show them you are informed about your choices and weighed the pros and cons of your choices they may be a lil more open to working with you . Worth a shot anyway . Good luck !
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  #10  
June 9th, 2007, 05:51 AM
Tofu Bacon
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Quote:
Here is one link I found with exemptions for New York, it says medical and religious exemptions are allowed. http://www.nvic.org/state-site/NewYork.htm It is the same here in Iowa and we use the religious exemption. According to the constitution, they can not question your religion. Also the constitution will back you with your rights to choose.[/b]
The problem is that NY doesn't recognize exemptions for vitamin k and eye goop because they aren't immunizations.
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  #11  
June 9th, 2007, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
Quote:
Here is one link I found with exemptions for New York, it says medical and religious exemptions are allowed. http://www.nvic.org/state-site/NewYork.htm It is the same here in Iowa and we use the religious exemption. According to the constitution, they can not question your religion. Also the constitution will back you with your rights to choose.[/b]
The problem is that NY doesn't recognize exemptions for vitamin k and eye goop because they aren't immunizations.
[/b][/quote]

I hope Lauren can help you better than I can. These procedures are being forced on you and that is against the constitution, so they can not force them on you or your child. You are the guardian and have all the rights to deny any medical procedure done to your child.

My best advice would be to tell them no and ask for waivers to sign. Also DO NOT allow the baby out of your site at anytime!!!

I know Lauren denied all these things for her 2nd daughter born in a hospital. So I am sure she has ways around it for you.

If you don't mind me asking where in New York are you?
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  #12  
June 10th, 2007, 12:37 PM
Tofu Bacon
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So with the inspiration of Deb's friend Laura, I am back on track with the vitamin K issue. I got all fired up and typed my exemption letter this morning. Sure NY doesn't recognize exemptions for this and prohibits oral vitamin K, but I'm not going down without a fight. I have a friend who is a social worker and am debating asking her about the odds of Child Protective Services paying me a hospital visit (they'd better bring flowers if they do!). So here's what I've got so far (as well as supporting evidence):

This written statement is to exempt our newborn child _________________________ from administration of vitamin K prophylaxis injection, based on our research and sincerely held beliefs. We are aware of the risks associated with intravenous use of vitamin K, including shock, cardiac and/or respiratory arrest, death, as well as a possible association with leukemia and childhood cancers. We are also aware that neither the hospital nor the administering practitioner would be held liable, should our child suffer injury or death as a result of this procedure.

We are also aware of the possible risks of vitamin K deficiency, including Haemorrhagic Disease of the Newborn, which may or may not be attributed to vitamin K deficiency. With our newborn child’s best interest at heart, we request the use of oral vitamin K in lieu of intravenous injection, which is just as effective but without the risks associated with injection of vitamin K. We will supply a new, unopened package of oral vitamin K, if the hospital is unable to do so. We also accept the responsibility of administering follow-up doses of oral vitamin K during the first four weeks of life. I, the mother, will also be taking 5mg vitamin K supplements during the first 12 weeks of my nursing baby’s life, the time when vitamin K deficiency is of greatest concern.

We, (our names) as the parents of ______________________________, are exercising our rights as residents of the State of New York, under the Patients’ Bill of Rights, to refuse treatment. Should our rights be violated by having vitamin K prophylaxis injection forced upon our child, we are prepared to sue in Federal Court by invoking Title 42 USC 1983, which states:

“Parents are justified in their right to refuse medication of their children to protect them from unnecessary harm."


And then we'll have it notarized. We've also decided that I will likely be switching midwives as well so I can deliver at the more mom and baby friendly hospital. My current midwife only has privilages at the awful hospital where I had ds, so if we can't find a way to get her into the other hospital then I have a new midwife practice lined up. The other practice is right up my alley and specifically says on their site that they encourage drug-free labor and birth for every mom, eating during labor, staying mobile and delivering in any comfortable position, and best of all: that hospital allows 24 rooming in and the baby never leaves your site for the entire stay. BUT, unless I can do so haggling with the insurance company we will have to pay the midwife out of pocket, though the hospital portion will be covered.
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  #13  
June 11th, 2007, 07:36 AM
Ms.Michelle
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Cori, this is fabulous. I think you really dotted your I's and crossed your t's here. I hope the new midwife understands.
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  #14  
June 11th, 2007, 09:27 AM
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I cant believe that some places would force this on you.... All I had to do was say no, and it was no big deal. I hope this letter works for you. Good luck!
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  #15  
June 11th, 2007, 12:23 PM
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Very nicely written. I hope they don't fight you on this.

I hope you are able to change midwives and have a better experience than last time.

Best of luck, keep us posted when you have updates.
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  #16  
June 12th, 2007, 12:33 PM
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i am so shocked that your hospital could be so strict about things that are standard proceedure here in Ireland.

i admire you in your fight for the birth you want. you as a mother know whats best for your child, NO ONE should be able to tell you that your opinions are wrong and that you have to do things a certain way. you are obviously well informed and educated, its not a matter of neglect.
I just wanted to wish you all the best with this and i really hope you get the birth you want.
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