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  #1  
July 8th, 2007, 01:00 PM
TheOtherMichelle's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I do hate to gossip on here and I don't want to stir up any trouble, but I read this post in the cesarean support board and it made me sad...

Edit: took out the quote. Basically a woman was induced and when things weren't progressing the doctor told her her body was incapable of having the baby and she was taken to the OR.

It's heartbreaking to me to see how doctors make women believe this type of stuff. She is in my PR and when she was scheduled to have her induction because her doctor wouldn't let her go past 40 weeks, a couple of us tried to say how it's not a big deal and can be harmful, and it started a debate we had to drop. Anyway, when I saw the post I had to share with you guys. I know you'll understand why it frustrates and saddens me to see women led to believe that their bodies don't work.
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  #2  
July 8th, 2007, 01:55 PM
tygrss's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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UGH! That is so irritating.

It clearly demonstrates my point. My issue with the entire birth process in the US is that the public, in general and women, in particular have been duped into believing that our bodies just don't work OR that birth is some pathological process that needs to be controlled or interfered with in some way on a routine basis. As a result, women end up agreeing to unnecessary interventions (such as inductions for non-medical reasons) which lead to more interventions, etc, etc. And then in the end they are left to believe that there is something "wrong" with them. \

SIGH.
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  #3  
July 8th, 2007, 03:07 PM
Ms.Michelle
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You guys have no idea what a blessing it is to be able to come here and speak freely about this. It breaks my heart. I read a few threads in my DDC and can't read anymore. I have to come here.. Today, I read how being 41 weeks and 5 days is now considered "way over due"... I want to say something but I know it's on deaf ears.. You girls are right. Women are absolutely duped into thinking something is broken when it isn't! Today there a thread about an OB/GYN's vacaction so induction is scheduled... the amount of women willing to do it just scares me. It's no wonder we have so many kids with phyical/mental health issues. I can't wait to see my baby.. Dh and I are on pins and needles just waiting for the next days to go by but it would be so selfish just to induce because we want our first born here now. She needs to bake at her own rate for her own reasons.. If letting her stay one minute longer helps her avoid one more visit to the doctor, why on earth wouldn't we do it? Aren't we parents now? Aren't we worried about the welfare of our babies now? I just don't understand what people are thinking. Just because a doc says it's ok doesn't mean we should 100% blindly follow. Last time I checked, they aren't God, they are just helpers.
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  #4  
July 8th, 2007, 03:14 PM
**Jenn**'s Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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  #5  
July 8th, 2007, 03:17 PM
Ms.Michelle
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Quote:
However, most women are just not interested and I don't see anything wrong with that.[/b]
Well, I do see something very wrong with that. I see how women have no control in their own bodies. Because of that, we are limited in our choices. Women don't even know the choices because no one will bother to mention them. That is a travesty that should upset anyone.

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  #6  
July 8th, 2007, 03:18 PM
Ms.Michelle
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BTW, where else would you assume we should be able to talk freely about this? We can't talk about it on our DDC's. That alone should be proof we are limited in our choices. It's like going on a breastfeeding forum and speaking down to people who need to vent at the riduclous reasons some women choose to use forumla. This area is supposed to be about support and we need to vent too.
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  #7  
July 8th, 2007, 03:23 PM
**Jenn**'s Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I'm not saying you can't talk about it. I just don't see the point in judging other beliefs when it comes to birth seeing as how natural birthing Moms hate it when our beliefs are judged. I know plenty of women who know their options and have read all the information out there and still go ahead with inductions and the like. It's a personal choice is all I'm saying.

What may seem like a "ridiculous reason" to one person is completely valid to another.
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  #8  
July 8th, 2007, 03:26 PM
Ms.Michelle
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I'm not saying you can't talk about it. I just don't see the point in judging other beliefs when it comes to birth seeing as how natural birthing Moms hate it when our beliefs are judged. I know plenty of women who know their options and have read all the information out there and still go ahead with inductions and the like. It's a personal choice is all I'm saying.

What may seem like a "ridiculous reason" to one person is completely valid to another.[/b]
Just in case you didn't know, the debates are further down.. This is a support board.
You do realize we are judging the system and not the woman right?
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  #9  
July 8th, 2007, 03:34 PM
**Jenn**'s Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm not saying you can't talk about it. I just don't see the point in judging other beliefs when it comes to birth seeing as how natural birthing Moms hate it when our beliefs are judged. I know plenty of women who know their options and have read all the information out there and still go ahead with inductions and the like. It's a personal choice is all I'm saying.

What may seem like a "ridiculous reason" to one person is completely valid to another.[/b]
Just in case you didn't know, the debates are further down.. This is a support board.
You do realize we are judging the system and not the woman right?
[/b]
Yes I do know where the debates boards are, thank you very much. I wasn't debating but simply stating my opinion. I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to do that. I came here for support (and to give it) since this board first went up, I know what its here for. But whatever, I can see my point is completely lost on defensive ears so I'm not even going to try anymore.
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  #10  
July 8th, 2007, 03:42 PM
Ms.Michelle
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Yes I do know where the debates boards are, thank you very much. I wasn't debating but simply stating my opinion. I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to do that. I came here for support (and to give it) since this board first went up, I know what its here for. But whatever, I can see my point is completely lost on defensive ears so I'm not even going to try anymore.[/b]
Let me explain why it's defensive..

You're on a support board. If you do support natural childbirth, you would know that I'm at a stage where I could have this baby today, or even three weeks from now. I'm on pins and needles waiting for this baby to pop. I'm not here to complain about the small issues like swollen ankles or constant back pain because I chose to be pregnant. What I do need a small place on Jm where I can express myself and thoughts on natural childbirth since I'm not part of the flock of sheep lining up for inductions and c-sections. That's what the other boards are for. Since I can't say anything in my DDC, this is the only place for SUPPORT. To be told I'm being defensive on a support board is not any better than any of the judgement you claim in within this thread. Yet, as I've said, we judge the system, and lack of faith on nature NOT THE WOMEN.
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  #11  
July 8th, 2007, 04:47 PM
**Jenn**'s Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I do understand what you are saying and where you are coming from. However, this woman did not post this in her DDC, this was not a woman someone worked with or was a neighbor. This was a post copied and pasted directly from the cesarian support board; she was singled out. Just as this board is a place to vent and gain support from women who desire natural births, so the cesarian board serves the same purpose for those women. I just don't think it's right to go in there and take a post from a woman sharing her experiences and maybe wanting a little support herself and pass judgement on the way she has decided to give birth. How would we like it if that was done to a woman from here?

And trust me, I know all about the anticipation of waiting for your baby to arrive. I've been there and am almost at that point again. As for now, I'm more worried about my baby staying in long enough to think or complain about anything else. I think it's great for women to have a place to talk about natural birth and vent about the "system" and how it does fail many women because I thnk that is very true. But, those that choose to have or need c-sections should have their sanctuary as well. That's all I'm trying to say, I'm not trying to offend.

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  #12  
July 8th, 2007, 05:41 PM
TheOtherMichelle's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I apologize for stirring up this much controversy. It wasn't my intent, which is why I brought it up here instead of in the debate or ddc/pr forums.

FYI, I got it from the C-section support forum because I had one myself. I was also subjected to a doctor telling me that my body was failing me when I refused to be induced without a valid medical reason. So I know all too well the emotional pain of having doubts thrown on my body and my ability to do what a woman was made for. I was put through hell in the last couple weeks of my pregnancy because I chose to throw a wrench into the system. I also experienced the physical pain of a c-section recovery. So, yeah, it makes me sad to see the same sort of experience perpetuated again and again. I was floored at what that doctor told her and my dh would probably punch him if it were us. Honestly, to some extent, I envy the original poster because she doesn't have any doubts or qualms about what her doctor told her. I'm not judging her for the way she chose to give birth, I'm judging her doctor and the system he represents. I left in most of the quote so his words would have context. I can edit it if y'all think it comes across as too judgmental.

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  #14  
July 8th, 2007, 07:12 PM
Ms.Michelle
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Quote:
I can edit it if y'all think it comes across as too judgmental.[/b]
You have zero to apologize for! It did not come off as judgemental in any way and was very clear it was the system and the doctor you didn't approve of, not the woman.

Quote:
I agree with the natural birth. All these medical interventions occur because people are impatient. My sister was almost wheeled into c-section because her labor wasn't progressing fast enough for the doctors. My mom put her foot down and said we'd wait another day. Prevented a needless surgery.[/b]
Thank goodness your mom was there.
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  #15  
July 8th, 2007, 07:13 PM
Ms.Michelle
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Quote:
I'm not trying to offend.[/b]
I can tell you, I read your n/m post in full and it completely offends me.
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  #16  
July 8th, 2007, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
I do understand what you are saying and where you are coming from. However, this woman did not post this in her DDC, this was not a woman someone worked with or was a neighbor. This was a post copied and pasted directly from the cesarian support board; she was singled out. Just as this board is a place to vent and gain support from women who desire natural births, so the cesarian board serves the same purpose for those women. I just don't think it's right to go in there and take a post from a woman sharing her experiences and maybe wanting a little support herself and pass judgement on the way she has decided to give birth. How would we like it if that was done to a woman from here?[/b]
For Heavens Sake!!! Do you not get that we AREN'T talking about this specific woman's decision on how to birth?? the criticism is on the DOCTOR and how things are often run in hospital births, not on HER!!!
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  #17  
July 8th, 2007, 10:37 PM
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I am not even pregnant anymore, but I have tons of pregnant neighbors and friends and I STILL get bugged by what doctors tell them! I come here still because I have nearly no where to go, no one to talk to about this. Everyone else seems to be so happy with the system, but doctors don't know and don't educate them about why these interventions lead to such high statistics. Our maternal and infant mortality rates higher than many of the other developed countries. Also I believe Switzerland has midwife based pregnancy care and OB's are reserved for only high risk pregnancies. The biggest point is there is a HUGE lack of education! I come here because I can't seem to get off my soap box IRL and people don't listen and don't care. So I need to vent. I really just cry for the moms because of what they miss. Some of them really don't care to know or learn because hey, ignorance is bliss right? And others are bullied. I too have a friend who really believes her body is broken and she can't labor on her own. She was pushed into an induction that ended in a c-section. She half heartedly thought of doing a VBAC, with no one to give her proper education about it and instead she was told that remember she is broken and ended up with another c-section. (sigh) There is so much that is missed and taken. Birth and pregnancy accounts for 60% of hospital revenue. No wonder health insurance is so high and now there is a 30% c-section national rate so no wonder I pay out my eyeballs for insurance. If we could just educate women it could be different! I can't remember which one, but one European country is ENCOURAGING their moms to have homebirths if they are low risk because it is safe, effective and cheaper on the health care costs of a community. Okay, done now. I need support too and I still love to give it since this info is certainly not available to women from their OB's office!
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  #18  
July 9th, 2007, 06:37 AM
ranestorm's Avatar Super Mommy
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Quote:
You guys have no idea what a blessing it is to be able to come here and speak freely about this. It breaks my heart. I read a few threads in my DDC and can't read anymore. I have to come here.. Today, I read how being 41 weeks and 5 days is now considered "way over due"... I want to say something but I know it's on deaf ears.. You girls are right. Women are absolutely duped into thinking something is broken when it isn't! Today there a thread about an OB/GYN's vacaction so induction is scheduled... the amount of women willing to do it just scares me. It's no wonder we have so many kids with phyical/mental health issues. I can't wait to see my baby.. Dh and I are on pins and needles just waiting for the next days to go by but it would be so selfish just to induce because we want our first born here now. She needs to bake at her own rate for her own reasons.. If letting her stay one minute longer helps her avoid one more visit to the doctor, why on earth wouldn't we do it? Aren't we parents now? Aren't we worried about the welfare of our babies now? I just don't understand what people are thinking. Just because a doc says it's ok doesn't mean we should 100% blindly follow. Last time I checked, they aren't God, they are just helpers.[/b]

well, just to pitch in my 2 cents! i couldn't agree more! i'm 38 weeks along and living with my best friend who is 10 weeks behind me and is already thinking of inducing because her hubby could possibly be out of the country if she goes overdue by even a couple days (yes, sadly, it's her first baby) AND she doesn't want to take a birthing class because she doesn't want to "see a birth" because it grosses her out. i mean really....why get pregnant in the first place if you don't want to take part?
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  #19  
July 9th, 2007, 06:50 AM
Kelllilee's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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My sister got convinced that her body was "broken" when she had her first baby. SO sad, after 12 hours of induction they talked her into a c-section because she was "only" 3cm dilated.

With her second pregnancy (ended up being twins) the doctor (different one) wouldn't let her even try for a VBAC because according to him he only allows them if the woman has had a previous vaginal birth. That way her body "knows what to do" So apparently first time moms' bodies don't know what to do??!!! WTH!!

Now she kinda thinks maybe her body isn't broken after all cause when she went in for her csection (went to the hospital in labor, so they rushed her to the ER) she was 4cm dilated already.
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  #20  
July 9th, 2007, 11:29 AM
Tofu Bacon
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Newmama2006: I can understand why you are upset, but I just to add that many of us on this board have dealt with the pain of being coerced into being highly-medicated/induced/unnecessarily-sectioned in our previous births. Our frustrations aren't coming from a place of contempt, its coming from many of us who have been there and done that. We feel angry and cheated because the mainstream medical establishment doesn't feel the need to let women know that there are other choices; we are expected to fully abdigate our responsibilities into those people's hands and never let it occur to us that things aren't being done in OUR best intrest. You can choose to have what is now the standard model of childbirth and go to just about any random board and get all of the support you can handle; we don't have that luxury because we want to have control over our births and our bodies.
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