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  #1  
October 12th, 2013, 04:41 PM
Maenfayne's Avatar Veteran
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Location: Oregon
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LO is 9 days old now, and we're still having issues with BFing. I know that it's a learning experience for both of us, but I'm starting to get irritated. Here's what's going on...

My breasts are overly full. Not engorged, they get good and soft after a feeding, although I think he falls asleep before they fully empty. When he first latches on he sucks sooooo strong that it feels like he's biting me. I know he's not because his tongue is covering his bottom gums, but that's what it feels like. He gulps really loud and sometimes pulls off because his mouth is so full of milk. Because of the biting sensation, I've been using a nipple shield. My LC says that it doesn't interfere with supply and that most babies can be weaned off of it and go back to plain boob. She recommended I start with the shield, allow my breast to soften a bit, remove the shield and try again.

This works great for the right breast. However, the left breast hurts! It hurts with the shield, and it hurts even more without. I want to try the football hold to see if it's a positioning thing, but I'm experiencing "mommy thumb" from holding his head so much. I don't think I could hold him football style without exasperating that issue.

I'm trying to figure out why my left breast is causing so much issue. I did have both nipples pierced, but they were only in for about 4 months, never fully healed, and have been removed for over a year. I'm wondering if maybe... maybe there's scar tissue or something causing pain?

His anatomy seems fine as the right breast is doing well. His lips flange out, he tongue has good range of motion, and has a normal soft palate. My LC thinks maybe I simply have too strong of a flow and he's trying to slow down the flow. However he suckles so darn fast! Wouldn't he be doing slower suckling?

I'm just confused and don't know what to do to make things better. I don't mind the shield when I'm home, but it becomes such a pain when we're out and about. I wish I could simply whip out my breasts and feed him. I'm committed to BFing him. I need help though.
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10.03.13 8lbs 11oz 21 inches
Excuse my typos, there is either a baby on my boob or sleeping in my arms


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  #2  
October 12th, 2013, 05:05 PM
ThaiSpice's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Hey! Great job breastfeeding! Sorry it's been somewhat frustrating. It sounds like it could possibly be oversupply, which can be common in the first few months until things even out. You might try letting him latch, then unlatch during your letdown, and then relatch...see if that helps. Or you could hand express a tiny bit before letting him latch on. You can try block feeding...where you feed from the same breast for two or more feedings in a row before switching to the other breast. If that's the problem (oversupply), chances are it will resolve itself at some point. Not sure about the pain...could still be some kind of latch issue, thrush...not sure. Personally I would skip the shields, though, unless you just can't nurse without them. Hope it gets better soon!
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  #3  
October 12th, 2013, 05:19 PM
Maenfayne's Avatar Veteran
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I absolutely can't nurse on my left side without the shield. It even stings afterwards for a while. But I'm trying to stop the shield on the right. At least then I'd have that side to offer real quick and easy out and about. How does the block nursing help? Wouldn't that increase the supply on one side and decrease on the other?
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10.03.13 8lbs 11oz 21 inches
Excuse my typos, there is either a baby on my boob or sleeping in my arms


Thank you *sharon* for my adorable siggy

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  #4  
October 12th, 2013, 05:20 PM
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For the first couple of weeks I had painful letdown with my baby, but it's just your body not the baby biting/sucking too hard. It went away after probably two weeks, on it's own. Feeling full will also regulate on it's own, just give it time. You are doing great!
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  #5  
October 14th, 2013, 05:42 AM
juleeannk's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Not all LCs are trained to spot tongue and lip ties. Can you take a picture of the upper lip (flange upward). I am experienced in spotting them. It's easier to spot and take a picture of an upper lip tie. If you post the picture I can look at it for you. I strongly suspect an upper lip tie and posterior tongue tie. Posterior tongue ties are really hard to spot and and usually missed. If the baby has an upper lip tie, they have a posterior tongue tie. Baby's with a posterior tongue may have good tongue movements, and that's another reason why they are missed so often.

I wouldn't suggest block feeding yet until a tongue and lip tie are ruled out.
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  #6  
October 14th, 2013, 08:27 AM
Rachel's Avatar Just Rachel
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I was thinking over supply or a lip/tongue tie too. I hope you can get it figured out!

Have you tried hand expressing or pumping before he nurses? Does it hurt when you pump or only when he latches?
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  #7  
October 14th, 2013, 10:05 AM
Maenfayne's Avatar Veteran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juleeannk View Post
Not all LCs are trained to spot tongue and lip ties. Can you take a picture of the upper lip (flange upward). I am experienced in spotting them. It's easier to spot and take a picture of an upper lip tie. If you post the picture I can look at it for you. I strongly suspect an upper lip tie and posterior tongue tie. Posterior tongue ties are really hard to spot and and usually missed. If the baby has an upper lip tie, they have a posterior tongue tie. Baby's with a posterior tongue may have good tongue movements, and that's another reason why they are missed so often.

I wouldn't suggest block feeding yet until a tongue and lip tie are ruled out.
Do you want a picture of him latched on or...? Sorry, not quite sure how you need the picture.

Yesterday I fed from only one breast a feeding, and my breasts are pretty soft from it already. I attempted taking the shield off my right and he took to it without any pain. Problem now is that if he comes off he has a hard time getting back on as my nipple is so much softer. It's like he's searching for the stiff plastic of the shield. He gets frustrated and cries, making it even harder, until I out the shield back on. As my left breast hurts the most, I haven't tried without the shield yet.
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10.03.13 8lbs 11oz 21 inches
Excuse my typos, there is either a baby on my boob or sleeping in my arms


Thank you *sharon* for my adorable siggy

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  #8  
October 14th, 2013, 10:12 AM
juleeannk's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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That's okay, take a picture not nursing, like this


That is a picture of a baby with a lip tie btw.
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  #9  
October 14th, 2013, 01:23 PM
mgm78's Avatar Zoe's mom Meredith
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hmmmm. could just be the let down. I only did one side per feeding for a really long time. You can hand express a little milk to soften the breast instead of futzing with the shield.
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  #10  
October 14th, 2013, 01:45 PM
Maenfayne's Avatar Veteran
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I'm having a hard time taking a picture but I think you're right about the lip tie from what I have briefly seen when trying to get a picture. He does flange his upper lip out, but not always. I wonder if it's not fully flanged though. I don't know. When jake gets home I'll have him help me get a picture.

If this is the case, what do we do?
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10.03.13 8lbs 11oz 21 inches
Excuse my typos, there is either a baby on my boob or sleeping in my arms


Thank you *sharon* for my adorable siggy

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  #11  
October 15th, 2013, 12:15 AM
Maenfayne's Avatar Veteran
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This is about how far he flanges his mouth. Sometimes he does less.
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10.03.13 8lbs 11oz 21 inches
Excuse my typos, there is either a baby on my boob or sleeping in my arms


Thank you *sharon* for my adorable siggy

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  #12  
October 15th, 2013, 05:20 AM
juleeannk's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Yes, that it an upper lip tie if there is an upper lip tie, then there is a posterior tongue tie as well. Another clue is the shape of the pallet. The tongue shapes the pallet in utero and if there is a tie, the pallet is not shaped ideally. Also, do you see the white spots on the palate? Those are called Epstein Pearls. I wanted to point them out to you because they are often mistaken for thrush. They are benign and will often go away around two months of age. In the same picture, the tongue is showing bunching which is also an indicator of tongue tie.

Here is a great support group for tongue tie and lip ties. If you go to the files section, they have a lot of information regarding the symptoms and treatment options.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/tonguetiebabies/

What part of Oregon are you from? I can help get you some great resources if you would like. Let me know if you have any other questions.
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  #13  
October 15th, 2013, 05:58 AM
juleeannk's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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These are all providers in the Portland area, not sure if it's close to you.

Dr. Bobby Ghaheri MD
TWO LOCATIONS
1111 NE 99th Ave #101
Portland OR 97220
503-488-2626
AND
24076 SE Stark #230
Gresham OR 97030
503-488-2600
Orclinic.com/provider/bobakghaheri
Drghaheri@gmail.com

Melissa Cole IBCLC (I know her personally, she is awesome!)
Luna Lactation: About Us

And Bryna Sampey IBCLC (I don't know her personally but heard she is great)
Welcome To Doula My Soul!
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  #14  
October 15th, 2013, 06:19 AM
juleeannk's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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All three providers are very familiar with tongue and lip ties.
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  #15  
October 15th, 2013, 08:17 AM
juleeannk's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Oh, I almost forgot to add, that is limited flanging of the upper lip.
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  #16  
October 15th, 2013, 08:26 AM
Maenfayne's Avatar Veteran
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Location: Oregon
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I'm having a hard time understanding this as far as what this means for him. I feel as though it's devastating news yet keep telling myself he's eating and gaining weight so it can't be that bad right? My emotions are all over the place today which isn't helping.
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10.03.13 8lbs 11oz 21 inches
Excuse my typos, there is either a baby on my boob or sleeping in my arms


Thank you *sharon* for my adorable siggy

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  #17  
October 15th, 2013, 04:24 PM
mgm78's Avatar Zoe's mom Meredith
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hugs! it means you are getting answers to make your breastfeeding relationship even better. Are any of those providers near you? He is eating and gaining, which means it is not interfering with that, but addressing this will help making nursing easier and allow you to nurse without the shield as well.
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  #18  
October 15th, 2013, 05:58 PM
Maenfayne's Avatar Veteran
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They are near me, I'll have to check with my insurance company though. It's pretty ridgid on what it covers. I saw my doctor (also Colton's) and mentioned this to him. He agrees there is a lip tie, but couldn't observe a tongue tie. He wanted to refer me to ENT but my insurance will not cover it under and circumstance. He feels it is more of a nuscaince to me than a problem for Colton. He suggested I go back to WIC and work with the lactation consult with this new information
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10.03.13 8lbs 11oz 21 inches
Excuse my typos, there is either a baby on my boob or sleeping in my arms


Thank you *sharon* for my adorable siggy

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  #19  
October 16th, 2013, 05:24 AM
juleeannk's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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It can be a very daunting especially when you hear some much conflicting information. Your insurance company should provide you with lactation coverage too especially if they covered your pump. If you give me your email, I can send you some information on posterior tongue tie. They cannot be spotted by just looking and many LCs and doctors will miss them. I don't know if the WIC LC will be knowledgeable of either, just wanted you to keep that in mind.

I just finally got the courage to look at my boys last night. I've suspected it all along since starting on my journey as a LC and becoming trained in tongue and lip ties but I just couldn't bring myself to look for some reason. My two older boys had some issues at the beginning of breastfeeding but after a month or two, there were no issues. I struggled to latch my oldest on and had to use a nipple shield for several months. My middle child didn't have any problems latching but I had severely cracked, bleeding, and sore nipples for about a month. It was awful but I stuck through it and it passed. He had an upper lip tie that as he got older kept ripping and bleeding but eventually ripped completely and haven't had any problems since then. My milk supply for both of those was never affected.

With my youngest (he is 4 now), we had the same nipple trauma as before but he was diagnosed with failure to thrive, had a bad gag reflex and is now in speech therapy. I could never take his temperature under his tongue either and he is a very picky eater. He has a hard time with textures. Well when I looked at them last night, my oldest two had slight tongue ties but my youngest has a very prominent anterior tongue tie. I was floored. How was it missed all these years? I will be correcting this and putting him in Cranio Sacral Therapy in hopes that it will improve his speech. He had all the signs so it makes me angry that no one found it. All of this could have been prevented.

The Facebook support group is amazing and can provide you with a lot of information and support. They can tell you why it's important to go with providers who will know how to spot and know if it should be treated. If you would like us to help speak with your insurance company to see if you have LC coverage, please let me know.
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  #20  
October 16th, 2013, 12:11 PM
mgm78's Avatar Zoe's mom Meredith
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I took DD to one of the top craniosacral therapists for babies in the world, amazing stuff! She does a free and low cost service for newborns called project latch and treats newborns to help them with their nursing I took DD because she never got teeth!
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