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To spank or not to spank


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  #1  
June 22nd, 2009, 10:22 AM
brandimomof2's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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My husband and I have tried to take a non spanking aproach to discipline. This worked well with my first daughter but not so well with my second daughter. We have to do some spanking. She turned 4 recently and really tries us. She is a sweet loving little girl but she back talks alot and hates hates cleaning up her mess. Time outs just dont work. I would like to find something that works other than spanking. We have took things away but that doesnt work real well either.

The biggest problem with her is just talking ugly sometimes and then not wanting to help her sister clean up there toys or clean messes she makes.

Does anyone have any suggestions that might work? And do you guys spank or not?

I want to disipline in a godly manner. I know the scripture spare the rod spoil the child but I have never been quite sure that meant spanking.
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  #2  
June 22nd, 2009, 10:53 AM
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We don't spank much. We have permission to spank our niece and nephew, and have regularly found more effective ways to punish them (age 4/5 and 6/7). They hate getting in trouble here, lol. I read the book "Making Children Mind Without Losing Yours" by Dr. Kevin Leman, and we really like his methods. He is pro spanking, but as he says, he raised three children and can count on ONE HAND the number of spankings they got all together. It's our goal here to have a similar count, and so far it's working with our niece and nephew... Rebecca is too small to use "reality discipline" on just yet, but we're training her nonetheless!

Btw... I like to think of the "rod" as being like a shepherd's crook, which the shepherd rarely would use to HIT a sheep, just to guide and "disciple". :-)
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  #3  
June 22nd, 2009, 12:03 PM
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My youngest (1.5) reacts wonderfully to time outs. My oldest (7) will smile if you put her on time out. She will sit on time out all day long, due to repeat behaviour. We have taken toys away, movies away ect. She doesnt care. Spanking is the only thing that effects her. So thats what we tend to do. We dont do it often and will usually still do time out. But if she continues the bahavior, we will give 2 swats on the butt.

If she back talks (she loves to do) I will tap her in the mouth.

I know how you feel, sometimes harder children will leave you at your wits end!!!
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  #4  
June 22nd, 2009, 12:08 PM
grunig's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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I like the book mentioned above. I need to reread it bc he has some very practical suggestions on how to discipline with resorting to spanking. We do spank here when necessary but usually try something else first.
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  #5  
June 22nd, 2009, 01:33 PM
brandimomof2's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Thank ladies. I will see if I cant get that book. Spanking is a last resort for us to. I would just like her to be more responsive to disipline and do things when we ask her too.

I hate spanking but it seems to be what works for her too. Maybe the book can help.
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  #6  
June 22nd, 2009, 02:39 PM
4boys
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Spanking is necessary. Moreso for some children than others, but I believe it is a necessary and helpful tool for discipline IF DONE CORRECTLY. At our house it is reserved for outright defiance and disobedience. You have to determine first whether the child's behaviour is childish (they didn't know, or it is typical kid behaviour) or foolish (they have chosen to disobey or had malicious intent). Spanking is for the latter. People always say they use it as a last resort but I am the opposite. It is my FIRST resort in some cases. Why would you wait until you are frustrated, angry and at the end of your rope to chastise a child? You are setting yourself up for a not-so-good situation. And you are teaching your child that they can "get away" with bad behaviour to a certain extent until mom "really gets serious". Nope, for open rebellion it is best to nip it in the bud and spank first.

If you are looking for a book about biblical parenting and discipline, my absolute favourite is Gary and Anne Marie Ezzo's Growing Kids God's Way (http//www.gfi.org). We have used it as our sole resource since Bailey was two and we have very well behaved kids (I know, everyone says that but it's true). People are always asking us what we use because of how our kids behave.
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  #7  
June 22nd, 2009, 03:17 PM
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We use time, very directed directions, avoiding, Time-out, and very precise questions.

How we use time
1) A lot I tell Miguel to stop and look at me. I start counting to 3 out loud and holding up my fingers by three he has to be at my side. If not he loses whatever he's doing for the day.

2) Often you'll hear you have 15 minutes until you have to turn off the game and we have to do X,
you have 10 minutes until you have to turn off the game and we have to do X,
you have 5 minutes until you have to turn off the game and we have to do X,
you have 2 minutes until you have to turn off the game and we have to X,
You need to turn off the game (wait 5 minutes) because we have to do X.
wait 5 minutes I need to turn off the game and we have to do x.
It's long drawn out process but it helps him know why and that he has to do it. Often I'll get to the two min. reminder and he'll start doing whatever's next. Used with playing, meals, going anywhere, bath, bed and things like that.


3) Timer are use on good days. Race against the clock or notification of planned change. Reward: Extra hug
reading time, school work on good days, picking up.

4) Direct directions- If it's not exact it is not done. Recently we discovered he does not stand under the shower or even in the tub when showering.

Go up stairs, in your room, behind your door, in the third pocket are your red and white shoes, bring them to me. This is a 10 min task

Put your black bionical named "current name" into the red box... now put the blue k'nex into the red box for picking up.

In the refrig. on the left side, in the 2nd drawer, get the white bottle that says ranch.

Avoidance- He does not go shopping with us because he is difficult.

Perice questions. Do you understand that saying / doing (What ever he just did/ said) is rude?
How would you feel if some one ( repeat what happen) to you?
How do you think (person) feel's when you ( repeat what happen) to them?
Is ( repeat what happen) something that you should apologize to for s/he's a good (mom, dad, friend brother, sister) and doesn't like to be hurt?
I need your help in (repeat task)? or now you have to stand in time out? (depending if it was a physical thing or not)

I'm hoping slowly we can get to the point that just saying go get your shoes on, clean your room, or stop being rude would work but as of right now it's a long process.
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  #8  
June 23rd, 2009, 06:25 AM
Butter's Avatar Heather the Mama Duk
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I really like Dr. Leman and take his approach to spanking. It's a last resort because other things generally work better. Spanking Ani makes her ANGRY and is counter-productive. I have spanked Cameron exactly one time in his life and it worked very well. Fritz has never been spanked and of course Adrian hasn't either. I consider it another tool in my discipline arsenal.

Mostly I look at the root word of discipline - disciple. I try to lead my children by example and teach them to do right beforehand rather than react to their behavior. I tend to focus on positive parenting. The Power of Positive Parenting by Glenn Latham is a good book.
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  #9  
June 23rd, 2009, 07:14 AM
BensMom's Avatar Ephesians 4:29
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We spank. IMO, it's what establishes parental authority. I agree that the Bible instructs parents to use it. Ben used to get spankings a lot, but now that he's older, he understands there will be harsh punishment (a sore bottom) if he doesn't obey me. He's also old enough to understand Eph 6:1, and that if he's not obeying me, he's also not obeying God. For very, very young children, I don't do the traditional bottom swats. I lightly pop (just so it stings a little) the offending part so they understand what I mean when I say no. Like, touching an outlet will get your hand popped, or kicking someone will get your leg popped. I don't use the traditional "spanking" until around age 2 when language has been better established and they know what the spanking is for. I rarely spank Ben at all anymore. So far, Daniel's been really good. Ben was a terror at times, but compared to what I've seen in daycares and grocery stores, he was a little angel, too.
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  #10  
June 23rd, 2009, 07:57 AM
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When Chy was 3, I 'popped' her in the leg at a store for tearing shoes of the racks after I told her 3x to stop.

Got the cops called on me by a 'spanking means your abusing your child' woman, and it was a horrible experiance.
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  #11  
June 23rd, 2009, 08:11 AM
~hsingtreehouse~
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Oh yeah...there are definitely THOSE people out there who act like ALL spanking is abuse.

We do spank, but not often. Bryce is spanked more than Scotty because of his attitude and probably also the ADHD. I do not hit him with my hand - we paddle. I wait, also, until I am NOT angry, we talk first about what he did and how many licks he will get. It happens very infrequently, but it does happen.

When I was a child, my dad would take off his belt and hit me around in circles while holding one of my arms in the air. To this day, I can't ever fathom hitting a child with a belt. Well, hitting ANYONE with a belt, honestly. Hitting the kids with my hands, even on the bottom, also felt wrong to us.

I think each parent has to use what works for their child. I am extremely careful about when I spank because I dont' always think it is the right punishment for the action. I do try other means first when the situation warrants. The last time I paddled Bryce was after he tore a chunk out of his brother's arm because Scotty was "getting on his nerves." He has been repetedly told about this and to come tell me so I can help when Scotty is bothering him. I know Bryce needs his space. However, Bryce AGAIN chose to take matters into his own hands...and when blood is drawn, we go straight to the more painful approach to discilpine. Screaming will get him 10 minutes on is bed. Fighting will get him 30 minutes of down time in his room, but drawing blood will get him spanked 100% of the time.
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  #12  
June 23rd, 2009, 10:26 AM
Momma Jo's Avatar Monsters Ed
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Duncan and Corbin only "respond" to spanking. Timeouts, grounding, taking privileges away just don't work IMHO. I can't really suggest anything different as this work for us.

Good luck
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  #13  
June 23rd, 2009, 10:59 AM
BensMom's Avatar Ephesians 4:29
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Yeah, my parents used all kinds of stuff ... belts, wooden paddles, switches, etc. I don't do that. I also don't (usually) spank in public. Ben's started picking up on that, so occasionally, I'll swat him when we're in a store aisle where there aren't any other shoppers. Only recently, losing priviledges has started being effective for certain situations. I don't think it works for toddlers because their attention span isn't long enough to really care.
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  #14  
June 23rd, 2009, 11:40 AM
brandimomof2's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Yeah my parents were pretty rough with the spanking. I would have black and blue marks all over my legs. For this reason I have never been quite comfortable with spanking. I always look for other means but do have to spank at times.

We are also looking into foster/care and adoption. Do they look down on spanking on the bottom? I think I read somewhere that you have to agree to a non physical way of disipline.

Thanks for sharing your stories.
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  #15  
June 23rd, 2009, 11:47 AM
BensMom's Avatar Ephesians 4:29
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Yes, from what I've read (domestic and international) all of them say you can't use physical discipline. That doesn't mean you can't, just that you'll say you won't. I go to church with a wonderful family who have 3 biological children and their youngest adopted from China. She said one time the case worker stopped by to make sure everything was ok, and the little girl was spanking her doll for something (can't remember what... it was bad, though). The case worker kinda laughed and said "we'll pretend we didn't see that" because she knew they were good people and doing a good job. I guess it depends on the situation and who you're working with. I don't know.
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  #16  
June 23rd, 2009, 12:02 PM
roving_gypsy's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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We spank, but we are trying to move away from it with our oldest because he's 6 and I think he is just getting to old to be spanked, but there are times where nothing else works and his butt does get spanked. I also pop/swat/pat, like if they are grabbing stuff off the shelves after I've said no I'll pop thier hand, or if they are kicking each other or won't sit in a cart in a store I'll swat a leg. OR if someone says a bad word or won't stop screaming/yelling or something along those lines I'll pop their mouth to make them realize they need to stop.

I had child services called on me by the Public School my 6 year old went to last school year because he had a bruise on his head. They asked him what happened and he said his dad pushed him, they stopped him mid sentence and called CPS... they didn't wait to hear my son tell them him and his dad were playing and they flipped a recliner and dad pushed him off the chair (in a playful way) so he could flip the chair back over. When CPS came to the house they asked me if I spanked for discipline, and I said yes.. They said it was fine as long as it wasn't the only form of discipline used, and it wasn't the first to be used in every occassion. Back to the whole school calling CPS thing, CPS said the school should have never called because it was clear Nathaniel was trying to tell them his dad and him were playing.. But its funny that they did call, because that happened shortly after a big uproar happened between hubby and I and Nathaniel's first teacher, the principle and the guidance counsoler. They finnally caved and put Nathaniel in a new class and then we got CPS called on us!! I really think it was their way of getting us back for not agreeing to stay with the teacher... (she was horrible! )
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  #17  
June 29th, 2009, 10:45 AM
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We don't spank in our house. For various reasons. I feel that parents who do spank- very sparingly are still good parents. I came from a home where my parents said that parents aren't good parents unless they spank. I was borderline beat as a child. Both my parents were abused as children and felt they did better than their parents, but when they were breaking the wooden spoons on our bottoms that should have clued them in. It didn't, they switched to plastic. I have talked with my siblings about this. What we learned was to beat up our younger siblings. That when they did something we didn't like, we hit them. It was the lesson we learned from being spanked. And now as a parent, I used to think I would spank, but when I did, I found I was angry and aggressive. It usually meant I had hit my breaking point and *I* needed a time out. For my oldest daughter it never worked anyway and I found out that for myself, I can't spank. Because of my emotional issues as a child, I will hurt my children if I do. My second daughter I know it would be more effective for, but I also know that her love language is touch and that it is very damaging- even if it is effective- to spank children who are very centered around physical touch. So with both children and with the way I have turned out from my own experience, it is not a good idea for there to be spanking in our house. And my sister who has kids has said the same thing. I would much rather give them a time out in their bedroom than spank- that way I get that cool off time too.
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  #18  
June 29th, 2009, 12:15 PM
~hsingtreehouse~
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I had an almost EXACT issue happen when my son was 6 and in ps...same situation essentially. Bryce and his step-dad were playing and Bryce flipped backwards off a chair. It got worse, though. Bryce came in crying saying, "I am going to tell everyone Dan pushed me" and I explained to him why that was a bad idea. Then, he went to school and when they asked what happened to his head, he said, "I can't tell you or they will take me away from my family." Oh.MY.GOD. URGH!!! However, the principal and teacher knew us so well that they called ME instead of CPS. I was so freaking mad! But that is what you get when you go to ps. Not to mention that the kids who NEEDED CPS never got them called!!! People like US get questioned while people who actually hurt their kids never have a word said to them. I hate public school...too many people wanting to be in control and get up in my business!
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  #19  
June 29th, 2009, 12:47 PM
roving_gypsy's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~hsingtreehouse~ View Post
I had an almost EXACT issue happen when my son was 6 and in ps...same situation essentially. Bryce and his step-dad were playing and Bryce flipped backwards off a chair. It got worse, though. Bryce came in crying saying, "I am going to tell everyone Dan pushed me" and I explained to him why that was a bad idea. Then, he went to school and when they asked what happened to his head, he said, "I can't tell you or they will take me away from my family." Oh.MY.GOD. URGH!!! However, the principal and teacher knew us so well that they called ME instead of CPS. I was so freaking mad! But that is what you get when you go to ps. Not to mention that the kids who NEEDED CPS never got them called!!! People like US get questioned while people who actually hurt their kids never have a word said to them. I hate public school...too many people wanting to be in control and get up in my business!
Wow! lol thats funny that the situations were so similar. I also hate that the school is/was trying to always get into our lives. It was worse with Nathaniel's first teacher, she was the type of person that turned up her nose at the fact that nathaniel was extreamly hyperactive (she also said there was no difference between a child with ADD and ADHD). She just said he was an out of control child, and I'm sure blamed it on our parenting. She was pushy and nosey. His second teacher was wonderful, but I don't want to go through another experiance like we did with his first teacher. And don't get me started on his Guidance Counsoler.. she actually told my son that if he were to run away, not to do it in his light up shoes because she saw on the show 'Cops' that some guy was found on a chase because his shoes lit up like Nathaniel's. I was speachless!

Sorry to go off topic!
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  #20  
July 1st, 2009, 11:27 AM
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We don't spank often.
I was spanked for every little blessed thing as a child. My dh was NEVER spanked.
We use it as a VERY last resort and Clay has been spanked maybe 3 times in his 5.5 years of life Time outs and taking away privledges work well for him. Carson is autistic, so, he doesn't get much discipline at all at this point. Just redirection and an occasional attempt of a time out
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