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  #1  
April 9th, 2009, 11:37 AM
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What do you think of them?

I get the medical one, some kids can't get certain or any vaccines for various medical reasons.
But I admit I don't get the religious one - all I can think of is some religions, like Christian Science, don't permit medical intervention, but other than that, what would justify the exemption, what would the objection be? (anyone who is religious feel free to enlighten me!)
And personal, well that one just just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. We have that here in WA. You don't even need a reason, you can just fill out a form that says you have a personal objection. Not sure how I feel about that. This year the state started requiring chicken pox vaccine to attend preschool, or proof that they had the chicken pox. Well, Syd had them as a baby, but we have no "proof", I would have to take her for a titer test. When I mentioned what a hassle that would be, the school said I could just fill out a personal exemption form and save myself the trouble. WTH? What is the point of making vax required if someone can just sign a form to not have to bother? I really don't get that.
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  #2  
April 9th, 2009, 05:05 PM
Zanahoria's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Aside from medical exemptions, my stance is that if you are exempt from vaccinating your child, then our public schools should be exempt from admitting your child. Don't want to vaccinate? Fine... Homeschool!
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  #3  
April 9th, 2009, 10:14 PM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picklesmama View Post
(anyone who is religious feel free to enlighten me!)
I openly will say we haven't fully decided on vax at this point & I am still researching (hence why I read stuff at both the choosing to & choosing not to vax boards)...I just wanted to share this link to an article on why some people take religious objection. I can't speak for all faiths - but I was raised Catholic - and I know what their exemption is & have provided a link that gives pretty good data on the use of aborted fetal tissue in vax. Vatican Statement on Aborted Fetal Vaccines
Like I said I can't speak for other faiths - but a religious objection to vax typically (although not always) lies in the relation to aborted fetuses.

Last edited by beck12; April 9th, 2009 at 10:16 PM.
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  #4  
April 9th, 2009, 10:38 PM
HunterandLandonsmom's Avatar Super Mommy
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I think some people don't agree with the aborted fetal tissue part and also, some don't think adding the "toxins" in vaccines is what God would want. Honestly, i vax my kids and done my research and that is all i worry about.
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  #5  
April 9th, 2009, 11:55 PM
picklesmama's Avatar <;,><
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beck12 View Post
I openly will say we haven't fully decided on vax at this point & I am still researching (hence why I read stuff at both the choosing to & choosing not to vax boards)...I just wanted to share this link to an article on why some people take religious objection. I can't speak for all faiths - but I was raised Catholic - and I know what their exemption is & have provided a link that gives pretty good data on the use of aborted fetal tissue in vax. Vatican Statement on Aborted Fetal Vaccines
Like I said I can't speak for other faiths - but a religious objection to vax typically (although not always) lies in the relation to aborted fetuses.
Ah, I forgot about that... I knew some people objected to some vax on that basis, but didn't make the connection to the religious exemption, duh Thanks!
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  #6  
April 10th, 2009, 03:45 AM
Zanahoria's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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While the anti-vax community is VERY misleading on "aborted fetus cells" being in vaccines, I just want to point out that drug companies are not actively removing cells from last week's abortions and then putting them in the vaccines. NOT AT ALL. These are cultured cell lines (meaning grown artificially, these cells have NEVER been inside a human body) from embryos long gone. And I mean LONG gone. From the 1960's in fact!

I am so sick of certain people intentionally misleading the general public on this issue, it's an intentional lie and ridiculous scare tactic they use, relying on the fact that most people don't bother to dig deeper for the FACTS.
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  #7  
April 10th, 2009, 06:01 AM
Tofu Bacon
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I hope its okay if I answer ; I don't vax, but am well-versed with exemptions. A religious doesn't necessarily have to do with specific religions or churches, its your personal religious beliefs; there's a fine line between a religious and philosophical exemption, but the main difference is the religious beliefs must occupy a significant place in your life and must be based in faith of some sort (a god or gods, nature, etc), not on science. This is actually a good thing because it prevents religious descrimination; any belief/non-belief system can qualify for a religious exemption.

Under Federal Laws, "religious practices" are defined by law to include moral or ethical beliefs about what is right and wrong that are sincerely held with the strength of traditional views.
- 29 C.F.R. A71605.1

Some religious beliefs to base an exemption are: religious dietary restrictions (vaccines are made with animal blood and tissue) and keeping the body pure, or demonstrating a lack of faith in their creator, or faith-based objection to animal testing. I can't remember the exact wording, but there have been Wiccans who base their exemption on sincerely believing that vaccines are harmful and it would violate their beliefs to submit to a practice that they believe to be harmful to their children.

I agree with Zan about the fetal cells lines: that we should stick with the facts and let people decide whether or not they are comfortable with it. I know some object to it because the cells line originated from abortions, regarless of the fact that no actual fetal tissue being used. But interestingly, the fetal cell line issue is not enough to base a religious exemption, because it is based on personal morals, not religion. I live in a state that is very strict with exemptions and requires a detail letter explaining one's beliefs; any mention of specific components, like the cell lines, is enough to have an exemption denied.
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  #8  
April 10th, 2009, 06:39 AM
KimberlyD0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweater Cannons View Post
I hope its okay if I answer ; I don't vax, but am well-versed with exemptions. A religious doesn't necessarily have to do with specific religions or churches, its your personal religious beliefs; there's a fine line between a religious and philosophical exemption, but the main difference is the religious beliefs must occupy a significant place in your life and must be based in faith of some sort (a god or gods, nature, etc), not on science. This is actually a good thing because it prevents religious descrimination; any belief/non-belief system can qualify for a religious exemption.

Under Federal Laws, "religious practices" are defined by law to include moral or ethical beliefs about what is right and wrong that are sincerely held with the strength of traditional views.
- 29 C.F.R. A71605.1

Some religious beliefs to base an exemption are: religious dietary restrictions (vaccines are made with animal blood and tissue) and keeping the body pure, or demonstrating a lack of faith in their creator, or faith-based objection to animal testing. I can't remember the exact wording, but there have been Wiccans who base their exemption on sincerely believing that vaccines are harmful and it would violate their beliefs to submit to a practice that they believe to be harmful to their children.

I agree with Zan about the fetal cells lines: that we should stick with the facts and let people decide whether or not they are comfortable with it. I know some object to it because the cells line originated from abortions, regarless of the fact that no actual fetal tissue being used. But interestingly, the fetal cell line issue is not enough to base a religious exemption, because it is based on personal morals, not religion. I live in a state that is very strict with exemptions and requires a detail letter explaining one's beliefs; any mention of specific components, like the cell lines, is enough to have an exemption denied.

Thats some really interesting information. Thank you for shareing. I wasn't sure how deeply they dig into religious exemptions.


For me I'm ok with religious and with medical. Not so keen on the personal though. Leaves it to open for anyone who hasn't done research or just doesn't want to fork out the cost, to just not vaccinate.

My childrens daycare only excepts medical or religious. Personal is not excepted. They have the right to do that. When I ran my daycare I wouldn't except any child without vaccinations, they had to have them all up to date or dates for the expected vaccines. I didn't feel comfortable with that. If something did happen I would have been held responcible.

It bothers me to be honest when I see people tell other moms who don't want to vaccinate to just lie and claim a religious exemption. Its wrong on so many levels. If you don't want to vaccinate then thats one thing, but to lie and say its "against your religion" when its really not is immoral to say the least.
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  #9  
April 10th, 2009, 07:06 AM
picklesmama's Avatar <;,><
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweater Cannons View Post
I hope its okay if I answer ; I don't vax, but am well-versed with exemptions. A religious doesn't necessarily have to do with specific religions or churches, its your personal religious beliefs; there's a fine line between a religious and philosophical exemption, but the main difference is the religious beliefs must occupy a significant place in your life and must be based in faith of some sort (a god or gods, nature, etc), not on science. This is actually a good thing because it prevents religious descrimination; any belief/non-belief system can qualify for a religious exemption.

Under Federal Laws, "religious practices" are defined by law to include moral or ethical beliefs about what is right and wrong that are sincerely held with the strength of traditional views.
- 29 C.F.R. A71605.1

Some religious beliefs to base an exemption are: religious dietary restrictions (vaccines are made with animal blood and tissue) and keeping the body pure, or demonstrating a lack of faith in their creator, or faith-based objection to animal testing. I can't remember the exact wording, but there have been Wiccans who base their exemption on sincerely believing that vaccines are harmful and it would violate their beliefs to submit to a practice that they believe to be harmful to their children.

I agree with Zan about the fetal cells lines: that we should stick with the facts and let people decide whether or not they are comfortable with it. I know some object to it because the cells line originated from abortions, regarless of the fact that no actual fetal tissue being used. But interestingly, the fetal cell line issue is not enough to base a religious exemption, because it is based on personal morals, not religion. I live in a state that is very strict with exemptions and requires a detail letter explaining one's beliefs; any mention of specific components, like the cell lines, is enough to have an exemption denied.
Thanks Cori! That actually does make sense.

What doesn't make sense to me is the ease of obtaining an exemption here in WA for example. Seriously, all you have to do is fill out the form and sign it (it's short http://www.doh.wa.gov/cfh/Immunize/d...fexemption.pdf) and you are exempt. I mean, why bother making it a requirement and having an exemption form, if that's how relaxed they are going to be about why not just make it a suggestion and save paper It really doesn't make sense that there are such differences in the requirements from state to state (or province to province). They should all just get on the same page already!( o/t, but I feel the same about car seat laws too).

I do feel there should be exemptions for those kids who medically need them - and I'm on the fence about the religious exemption - and leaning very strongly to the against them side - religion being a choice, unlike an allergy or some other medical reason.
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  #10  
April 10th, 2009, 07:13 AM
Tofu Bacon
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Whether or not its a "lie"... I guess that depends on the individual; I've never met anyone who isn't vaccinating because they just don't want to, but there are many many parents who truly object to some or all vaccines, but just don't happen to be religious people, or are religious but their church doesn't have any specific tenets. While, some states leave no other option than claim a religious exemption, federal laws protect our right to have moral and ethical beliefs recognized as "religous" in nature.

Last edited by Tofu Bacon; April 10th, 2009 at 07:14 AM. Reason: forgot to remove siggy
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  #11  
April 10th, 2009, 07:28 AM
Tofu Bacon
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Quote:
I do feel there should be exemptions for those kids who medically need them - and I'm on the fence about the religious exemption - and leaning very strongly to the against them side - religion being a choice, unlike an allergy or some other medical reason.
The thing is, medical exemptions are nearly impossible to obtain, and even then they revocable at any time. Plus medical exemptions only apply to individual vaccines, and only if the condraindication is on the CDC's tabled list, which is extremely limit0ed; most states do not allow a doctor to use their individual discretion.

Another problem with getting a medical exemption is that so many vaccinations are given at once that its nearly impossible to pinpoint which one is the one that caused a reaction. If a parents believes their child has been harmed, but there is no way to narrow down which is the problem, should they then be expected to be put in the position of risking another severe reaction because a medical exemption is insufficient? Or perhaps a particular component to a vaccine that is the culprate; having a medical exemption to vaccine X isn't going to protect the child who's reaction was caused by a component that is also in vaccines Y and Z, when the CDC's table only deals with specific vaccines, not components. The CDC's solution is to administer the rest of the series' anyway... but with a crashcart on hand! Having been in that position, I do not feel that it was an option for me to put my child in immediate danger, for the sake of diseases that aren't a likely threat to him.


Also, more and more parents are choosing to follow a selective schedule, or to spread out the doses; unless they are in a philosophical exemption state, they don't have that option, so they claim a religious exemption in order to follow a selective/delayed schedule "on the sly." Is that dishonest? *I* believe so, but many parents who want to vaccinate their kids (just not according the schedule) aren't afforded that option. There is a lack of parody between the states; why are parents in Washington (for example) granted the right to vaccinate as they see fit, but the parent in New Jersey (for exemple) are subject to scrutiny and and "all or nothing" vaccination schedule, juts by virtue of which state they live in?

Last edited by Tofu Bacon; April 10th, 2009 at 08:09 AM.
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  #12  
April 10th, 2009, 11:48 AM
HunterandLandonsmom's Avatar Super Mommy
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Thanks Cori.... that actually makes sense. I for one believe in vaccinatations, but would never ever want them to be forced upon a family and made manitory. That would be a very slippery slope if you ask me
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  #13  
April 10th, 2009, 01:45 PM
KimberlyD0
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I agree, I wouldn't want them to be manditory either.

Unfortunitly I know I've read and heard many mom's who say they don't want to vaccinate for such and such reason because someone told them that, not because they did any actual research. Usually its about the aborted fetus part, but also about the Thimerosal being in vaccines which its not. Only the Flu one has it now and even then you can get one that doesn't have it. There seems to be a lot of confusing by moms who haven't researched who feel that Thimerosal in the MMR causes Autism for example, which is imposible since it hasn't been in there is at least 10 years so its really not an issue, plus study after study shows it is not a direct causation. I think we all know and will say vaccine have risks, anything in medicine does, so when someone accuses me of saying there isn't I can get upset.

My point in this ramble was I don't have an issue with someone chooseing not to vaccinate if they have medical issues, or they trully have done a lot of research and feel strongly, I don't however understand that choice, I just can't like they can not understand my choice. However I do respect that choise anyway and I hope my choise is also respected.

Sometimes though personal exemptions can just be plain laziness on the side of the person getting it. It happens more then you may think.

Also NO one should lie and say they have a religious reasoning when they don't because more then anything it is disrespectful to those who trully have religious beliefs.

Funny thing though I had a neighbor who was super religious, their religion does reject modern medicine in the form of operations, blood transfusions, she even had 3 home births to avoid medical intervention, BUT she still vaccinated all 3 children because she lost 2 brothers to polio and had one diformed sister due to rubella (her mom was exposed while pregnant, and one deaf sister after measles. She stepped outside the religion for this. I thought it was particularly interesting because she died when I was 13 from cancer because she refused medical care. She left 3 girls, 13, 11, and 5.
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  #14  
April 10th, 2009, 02:35 PM
picklesmama's Avatar <;,><
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimberlyD0 View Post
Sometimes though personal exemptions can just be plain laziness on the side of the person getting it. It happens more then you may think.
Yep, I have a friend who just hasn't gotten around to it and won't until she has to. She has several kids and it would be a PITA to take them in to the clinic so often. I don't think there are too many people who put their inconvenience ahead of their child's health though - at least I hope not! This is where I can see the convenience of combo shots - getting it all done in as few shots and visits as possible.
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  #15  
April 10th, 2009, 05:03 PM
Tofu Bacon
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Originally Posted by KimberlyD0 View Post
Unfortunitly I know I've read and heard many mom's who say they don't want to vaccinate for such and such reason because someone told them that, not because they did any actual research. Usually its about the aborted fetus part, but also about the Thimerosal being in vaccines which its not. Only the Flu one has it now and even then you can get one that doesn't have it. There seems to be a lot of confusing by moms who haven't researched who feel that Thimerosal in the MMR causes Autism for example, which is imposible since it hasn't been in there is at least 10 years so its really not an issue, plus study after study shows it is not a direct causation. I think we all know and will say vaccine have risks, anything in medicine does, so when someone accuses me of saying there isn't I can get upset.
Sorry, but I am such a stickler. Thimerosal has never been in the MMR. The voluntary phase-out of thimerosal began 10 years ago, but it was still in the Engerix-B brand of Hepatitis B vaccine and the Pediarix brand of DTap-HepB-IPV until the thimerosal-free versions were licenced in 2007; both have a shelf-life of 3 years, so thimerosal-containing doses are still in stock. Thimerosal is still in multi-dose vial flu vaccines (not all pedis stock the thimerosal-free single-dose vials). It is also still in the Tripedia brand of DTaP, Twinrix brand of HepA-HepB, generic DT, Td and TT.
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  #16  
April 10th, 2009, 06:56 PM
KimberlyD0
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Originally Posted by Sweater Cannons View Post
Sorry, but I am such a stickler. Thimerosal has never been in the MMR. The voluntary phase-out of thimerosal began 10 years ago, but it was still in the Engerix-B brand of Hepatitis B vaccine and the Pediarix brand of DTap-HepB-IPV until the thimerosal-free versions were licenced in 2007; both have a shelf-life of 3 years, so thimerosal-containing doses are still in stock. Thimerosal is still in multi-dose vial flu vaccines (not all pedis stock the thimerosal-free single-dose vials). It is also still in the Tripedia brand of DTaP, Twinrix brand of HepA-HepB, generic DT, Td and TT.

I was pretty sure it had never been in the MMR but didn't want to say it till I confirmed it.

You can ask for the Thimerosal free versions of any of the vaccines and they will give it to you. Personally its not a big deal to me, but I know my brother was worried about that with his kids, and since he doesn't have the nerve to ask, I did and the office we have doesn't carry any with it in it. I even get the inserts for every shot the girls do get.

Funny thing is the Thimerosal was the main Autism scare that started and it was blamed on the MMR because of it, yet it was never in it to start with. Its one of the main reasons I have trouble excepting the chance of the link between the 2.

Since she has additional risks Karrigan gets the Flu, pnamonia and she'll be getting RSV vaccines untill at least 2. Just to be safe because she has risk factors other children do not. Kayla got non of these, she got the flu this year to try and reduce the risk to Karrigan. I am not sure if she will get it next year yet I have not decided.

I was planning on delaying the MMR so she would have only 1 vaccine at 1, but she has to go to CHEO and there is always the chance of her getting something at that hospital. SO she'll get the menegitis one (can't spell it so I wont even try) and the MMR at 1 then her second MMR between 15-18 months. Right about the time she is do for the CP one. Not sure if we're doing that one yet either.
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  #17  
April 14th, 2009, 05:54 PM
LisaW's Avatar Blessed Mama
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Every state has their own exemption requirements, as well as school rules. While exemptions may be difficult to obtain in some states, they are not so difficult in others. In Wyoming, we only have medical and religious exemptions and they are pretty easy to obtain. We don't have a personal/philosophical reason. In reviewing the exemptions that come through our office, they are interesting. Many of the religious exemptions select certain vaccines to be exempt from and not all of them. The medical ones are usually due to a sibling or the child itself is undergoing chemo and has a suppressed immune system. They don't want the other children in the house to be vaccinated at that time.

Our exemptions are lifetime and do not have to be renewed. In our research, we are finding that many of the children who were exempt from vaccines later received the vaccine. I'm always curious about those.
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  #18  
April 18th, 2009, 12:10 AM
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I feel so stubborn when I see ya'lls responses. lol I don't agree with the exemptions. That's all I'm going to say lol
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