Log In Sign Up

Ugh, shingles!!


Forum: Choosing Not to Vaccinate

Notices

Welcome to the JustMommies Message Boards.

We pride ourselves on having the friendliest and most welcoming forums for moms and moms to be! Please take a moment and register for free so you can be a part of our growing community of mothers. If you have any problems registering please drop an email to boards@justmommies.com.

Our community is moderated by our moderation team so you won't see spam or offensive messages posted on our forums. Each of our message boards is hosted by JustMommies hosts, whose names are listed at the top each board. We hope you find our message boards friendly, helpful, and fun to be on!

Reply Post New Topic
  Subscribe To Choosing Not to Vaccinate LinkBack Topic Tools Search this Topic Display Modes
  #1  
July 22nd, 2010, 07:03 PM
Tofu Bacon
Guest
Posts: n/a
About a week and a half ago I started to get a rash on the back of my leg. I thought maybe it was poison ivy, but I started to have doubts because I hadn't been anywhere near poison ivy and the rash was too high up on my leg to have made contact with it, plus it didn't spread at all. And it hurt, too! I finally went to the doctor when it just wasn't clearing up, and turns out its shingles! I'm at the tail end of it now, but man, it really sucks!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
July 22nd, 2010, 07:35 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,338
Eke. I'm always wondering if/when I'm going to get them. Hope you don't get them again.
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #3  
July 22nd, 2010, 07:52 PM
Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 9,490
OH MAN...hugs....glad it was just in a single location...and woo hoo that it's almost gone...hugs
__________________
Martha
Momma to Emma, Elzie, Gretchen, Olive, and Rogan

We aren't to give a baby milk, berries, or peanut butter. We are to introduce new foods one at a time. But it's OK to inject several viruses, bacteria, aluminum, formaldehyde, phenoxyethanol, animal serum, mercury, squalene and more into an 8 week old? I don't think so.
In order to be healthy it is an unfortunate fact that people must be allowed the opportunity to be ill. I trust my body and those of my children to work correctly against the relatively benign diseases they vax for, and do not trust the ingredients in the vaccinations.
Our choice to not vax isn't based in ignorance, poverty, conspiracy theory and rumor. It's research, common sense, fact and evidence based..something the medical community has largely forgot about.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
July 23rd, 2010, 01:43 PM
~Annissa~'s Avatar I love my kids!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Texas!
Posts: 6,844
I had them last year. They are terrible! Do they have any effect on pregnancy? I didn't let my kids touch them, but they can get CP from shingles right?
__________________
FREE Shipping at my Etsy Shop for JM Mommies!! Use code "JMMOM" at checkout!




Reply With Quote
  #5  
July 23rd, 2010, 02:49 PM
Tofu Bacon
Guest
Posts: n/a
Its not *supposed* to be harmful in pregnancy. You can theoretically catch CP from someone with shingles, but its very difficult, which is good because I don't want the kids to get it.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
July 24th, 2010, 12:57 AM
~Annissa~'s Avatar I love my kids!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Texas!
Posts: 6,844
Quote:
which is good because I don't want the kids to get it.
Why not? If you don't mind my asking.
__________________
FREE Shipping at my Etsy Shop for JM Mommies!! Use code "JMMOM" at checkout!




Reply With Quote
  #7  
July 24th, 2010, 05:24 AM
Tofu Bacon
Guest
Posts: n/a
Because I'm not confident that they will get enough exposure throughout their life to prevent shingles. If parents actually have to look for CP now, I can't imagine its going to get any easier, so I don't feel that their is a benefit to having them naturally if they aren't likely to have lifelong immunity, or shingles protection, anymore. I mean, if they get it, they get... but I don't want to purposefully expose them.

Last edited by Tofu Bacon; July 24th, 2010 at 05:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
July 24th, 2010, 11:28 AM
~Annissa~'s Avatar I love my kids!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Texas!
Posts: 6,844
So exposure to chicken pox prevents shingles? Is that stress type also? Natural immunity can wane? I thought it was once you had them it was immune for life, that's not the case?
__________________
FREE Shipping at my Etsy Shop for JM Mommies!! Use code "JMMOM" at checkout!





Last edited by ~Annissa~; July 24th, 2010 at 11:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
July 24th, 2010, 01:04 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,338
I'm really curious about the correlation between chickenpox exposure and shingles....I had the chickenpox as a child, a horrible bout with them but that was 20 years ago I'd assume any immunity to either CP or shingles has warn off by now.
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #10  
July 24th, 2010, 01:06 PM
Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 9,490
I know on some things (like whooping cough) being around it after you've had it does help rebuild your immunity...but I have never heard that about CP...I always heard it was a "once you had it you've had it" type disease....

Annissa...shingles comes from the chicken pox virus that lives dormant in your body until triggered...usually by stress...then that is when you get shingles.

I've just never heard that you had to be around it occasionally to keep immunity...I need to do some reading on this...

My fear is more that the CP vax is going to mutate the CP...or something like that....Shingles is happening more and more at younger ages....I think that the CP vaccines is going to make the occurrence of shingles more than the occurrence of CP.
__________________
Martha
Momma to Emma, Elzie, Gretchen, Olive, and Rogan

We aren't to give a baby milk, berries, or peanut butter. We are to introduce new foods one at a time. But it's OK to inject several viruses, bacteria, aluminum, formaldehyde, phenoxyethanol, animal serum, mercury, squalene and more into an 8 week old? I don't think so.
In order to be healthy it is an unfortunate fact that people must be allowed the opportunity to be ill. I trust my body and those of my children to work correctly against the relatively benign diseases they vax for, and do not trust the ingredients in the vaccinations.
Our choice to not vax isn't based in ignorance, poverty, conspiracy theory and rumor. It's research, common sense, fact and evidence based..something the medical community has largely forgot about.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
July 24th, 2010, 02:50 PM
Tofu Bacon
Guest
Posts: n/a
^^With the "childhood" diseases, (many diseases, in fact) you need re-exposure to the viruses to maintain lifelong immunity; in generations past, you generally had the diseases naturally as a child, then got a "adult booster" when your children had them. With chicken pox, that re-exposure is what keeps the herpes zoster virus dormant in the nerve cells, which prevents shingles. As far as when the vax is contributing to shingles, I've read differing opinions, but since shingles has never been a reportable disease, there are no concrete numbers to work with to see the correlation. Shingles is happening younger and younger... but again, without numbers we can only go by anecdotes.

The thing is, life-long immunity from natural infection was just as much as assumption as the idea of life-long immunity from a vaccine; because people used to catch these diseases in childhood and virtually no one got them again, it was assumed that this acquired immunity was life-long... and since vaccines mimic natural infection, it was assumed that vaccine-acquired immunity was life-long as well. We do know today that natural-acquired immunity wanes, just as vaccine-immunity wanes. Natural-acquired immunity is stronger and last longer than vaccine immunity, but there are so many variables to immunity that Science just isn't at the point of being able to offer any more than a best guess, especially since most of the VADs are so rare now that we have no idea how a big resurgence would impact those who have natural-acquired immunity from decades ago.

ETA: Just to be clear, I'm not making a case in favor of the chicken pox vaccine, just that its not as simple as getting the disease once and being protected for life. With chicken pox, once you've had it either the disease or the vaccine, you essentially become a chronic "carrier" of the herpes zoster virus, which can re-awaken later in life. I believe that its coming to a point where almost everyone will be susceptible to shingles... and the only way to keep it at bay will be to either seek out a natural booster very decade or two (through re-exposure), or through vaccination.

Last edited by Tofu Bacon; July 24th, 2010 at 07:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
July 24th, 2010, 06:04 PM
Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 9,490
I guess I just think that with any disease there are ups and downs....I think chicken pox will make it's face known...it has already for my family...once...I need it to again....and I feel that the same will happen when my kiddos have kids....I dont think they'll ever get rid of the disease completely.

I find it appalling also, that shingles isn't reportable. I mean...it's spreadable, too....seems it would be smart to report it and that way they COULD see the effects (like did the shingles incidents go UP since introducing the CP vax or making it mandatory for K entrance).
__________________
Martha
Momma to Emma, Elzie, Gretchen, Olive, and Rogan

We aren't to give a baby milk, berries, or peanut butter. We are to introduce new foods one at a time. But it's OK to inject several viruses, bacteria, aluminum, formaldehyde, phenoxyethanol, animal serum, mercury, squalene and more into an 8 week old? I don't think so.
In order to be healthy it is an unfortunate fact that people must be allowed the opportunity to be ill. I trust my body and those of my children to work correctly against the relatively benign diseases they vax for, and do not trust the ingredients in the vaccinations.
Our choice to not vax isn't based in ignorance, poverty, conspiracy theory and rumor. It's research, common sense, fact and evidence based..something the medical community has largely forgot about.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
July 24th, 2010, 07:23 PM
Tofu Bacon
Guest
Posts: n/a
I have my doubts. I don't think it will be eradicated completely, but I think its only a matter of time before CP becomes as rare as measles. Barely a generation ago, no one needed to look for CP, because at some point it found you. Whether or not the CP vax is making the shingles problem worse... I don't know. I suppose its coming to a point where we're creating a dependency on the CP vax. ETA: I think the only realistic solution would be to stop vaccinating for chicken pox, but I doubt that will likely happen.

Last edited by Tofu Bacon; July 25th, 2010 at 10:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
July 25th, 2010, 03:08 PM
(.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.)
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofu Bacon View Post
The thing is, life-long immunity from natural infection was just as much as assumption as the idea of life-long immunity from a vaccine; because people used to catch these diseases in childhood and virtually no one got them again, it was assumed that this acquired immunity was life-long... and since vaccines mimic natural infection, it was assumed that vaccine-acquired immunity was life-long as well. We do know today that natural-acquired immunity wanes, just as vaccine-immunity wanes. Natural-acquired immunity is stronger and last longer than vaccine immunity, but there are so many variables to immunity that Science just isn't at the point of being able to offer any more than a best guess, especially since most of the VADs are so rare now that we have no idea how a big resurgence would impact those who have natural-acquired immunity from decades ago.
Actually I was under the impression of the bolded and did believe in life-long immunity. I'll have to look into your theory more for sure. Thanks for posting it Cori! (Love the new quote too!)

Last edited by (.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.); July 25th, 2010 at 03:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
July 25th, 2010, 04:51 PM
Tofu Bacon
Guest
Posts: n/a
The issue boils down to one question: is natural immunity life-long in and of itself, or is it life-long due to re-exposure from circulating viruses? Initial exposure creates antibodies (which primes the immune system to recognize an antigen), but its subsequent exposure that creates an immunological memory for that antigen (which maintains that immunity). Its similar to the primary series and booster doses of vaccination.

ETA: I'm a sucker for visual aides


Last edited by Tofu Bacon; July 25th, 2010 at 07:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
July 26th, 2010, 06:44 PM
(.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.)
Guest
Posts: n/a
I've read about innate immune responses and adaptive immune cells memory. Both seem to suggest this. I have to check my Tenpenny book to see if she touches on it (but I'll add links as I learn.) Vaccines stimulate Th2 but not Th1. (A huge reason why we don't vaccinate in the first place.) My concern is that allergies have an overload of of the Th2. So I wonder how they are measuring the balance of Th1 & Th2 with disease based antibodies and comparing that with the Th1 & Th2 balance from vaccines? (I have zero expectation for you to answer. I'm justing thinking out loud to make it part of my own research.) It seems to me that if that balance is correct in the first place with disease based stimulation, creating proper memory, that the immune system stays properly functioning compared to having the imbalanced Th2/Th1 from vaccines. These concepts are what I learned from the natural approached based medicinal resources so I'll have to touch again on the allopathic approach. (I find it hard to do.)
Reply With Quote
  #17  
July 28th, 2010, 05:10 PM
MommaNator's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,773
Quote:
The issue boils down to one question: is natural immunity life-long in and of itself, or is it life-long due to re-exposure from circulating viruses?
That would be a very interesting study if it could be done. They'd have to vaccinate people and then keep them in a bubble to create a test group.

Sorry you had shingles but happy to hear it is almost over. I had shingles on my head last year and it was miserable.
__________________

Thanks Julie_aka_Mommy!


Reply With Quote
  #18  
April 29th, 2011, 03:30 PM
KtKuKi's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,756
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Topic Tools Search this Topic
Search this Topic:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:45 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0