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Forum: Choosing Not to Vaccinate

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  #1  
February 3rd, 2011, 02:18 PM
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Danny was just diagnosed on Tuesday with Shwachman-Diamond Syndrome(SDS). This is basically where his pancreas and bone marrow don't work right but as a result just about anything in his body can go wrong. The main part of my question has to do with a direct result of the bone marrow. He doesn't produce near enough white blood cells which is why he has been sick so much lately and taken longer to get over things. His white blood cell count 3 days post flu is not even to the "normal range". It is still well below where the lowest levels should be but not quite to the danger levels. When you are sick the white blood cell count goes way up because your body uses white blood cells so the marrow makes more. His bone marrow probably produces white blood cells at dangerously low levels when he isn't sick. Anything below 800 needs immediate attention and his were 1000 post flu. If he gets anything more serious than the flu he will have a difficult, if not impossible time fighting it off. The lady that heads the research for SDS says he can have no more than one vax per week and no more than one combo vax per however many diseases are in the vax... 3 diseases, 3 weeks, etc. The question is, in this situation what would you do? She is a firm believer in letting the toxins get out of the body before you put more in but a week? He can't build immunity to something with a compromised immune system in a week can he? Should I do one a month? I don't want to let him go unprotected because with his immune system not working wouldn't many of the VPD be VERY bad for him to get? I really need advice with this...
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  #2  
February 3rd, 2011, 03:25 PM
mgm78's Avatar Zoe's mom Meredith
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One of my patient's (who is 6) just had the same issue and they went to a very natural minded dr. I have not seen them since because his mom just had a baby. I will find out what their dr recommended with the vaccines. He has some autoimmune issues, so a little different.
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  #3  
February 3rd, 2011, 04:05 PM
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Hmm...that is such a personal decision...personally I am not sure I'd want my child to get any vaccines still...but if this is what you want then it's for the best...you know your situation better than anyone....so on that note...I'd span it out as FAR as I could possibly get....Once a month would be the CLOSEST I'd do it....I'd probably prefer to do something like once every other month...let his body completely recoup from fighting off the stuff in the vaccines before introducing another one....Some vaccines have a strict time line but I'm not sure which ones you'll be going for...if you aren't going for Hep B for example then it's not as serious...I'd also only work on one vaccine type at time...so if there are three shots to a cycle....i'd do JUST that vaccine...once it's finished move on to the next...make sense? So I wouldn't do one one month...another the next...the follow up of the first one next...etc...i'd finish a complete cycle before moving on...not only does this make it where his body is only fighting off one vaccine at a time....but it also makes it where you can totally know any reactions are from THAT vaccine not maybe it was the other one...etc.....

HUGS...what a stressful time it must be for you...deciding what to do on vaccines AND finding out why he's been so sick so often. I'd still see about things like elderberry and such if it agrees with him...to just help in immunity and other builders. can't hurt ya know....At least now you have a diagnosis and can work from there...instead of just wondering why he's sick so often....prayers for you and the little guy....I hope that you find something that makes you comfy and that works just right for him and your doctor! HUGS
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Martha
Momma to Emma, Elzie, Gretchen, Olive, and Rogan

We aren't to give a baby milk, berries, or peanut butter. We are to introduce new foods one at a time. But it's OK to inject several viruses, bacteria, aluminum, formaldehyde, phenoxyethanol, animal serum, mercury, squalene and more into an 8 week old? I don't think so.
In order to be healthy it is an unfortunate fact that people must be allowed the opportunity to be ill. I trust my body and those of my children to work correctly against the relatively benign diseases they vax for, and do not trust the ingredients in the vaccinations.
Our choice to not vax isn't based in ignorance, poverty, conspiracy theory and rumor. It's research, common sense, fact and evidence based..something the medical community has largely forgot about.
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  #4  
February 3rd, 2011, 08:33 PM
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The only reason I am considering vaccines now is that the diseases like measles and the chicken pox that normally wouldn't put a child's life at risk very easily will for Danny. I know that lots of vaccines shed so even if he doesn't get exposed to someone with it he will get exposed to everyone else's children shedding their shots. He is in Preschool so those kids probably get shots, and when we are at church, the kids in his class probably get shots and at any point in time any one of them could be shedding something and me not know until he already has it. I don't see how injecting poisons and toxins into him can necessarily help but I also can't really justify leaving him 100% vulnerable to the diseases that could easily kill him if his white count drops. It does drop...anytime he isn't sick...which is never for long...but it will drop and if one of those bugs gets in while his defenses are down, he may not be able to overcome them. It seems like vaxing him would be best but it still just seems so damaging to put all of that stuff into his body. Do you think the naturopath migh have a way to leach the toxins and such out after he gets a vax? Maybe that would make the decision easier if I knew they could help keep him healthy and get the toxins out of his system... I hate this. I have been so deadset in so many decisions with Danny, some since birth, and almost every single one has been mandatorily questioned by a serious medical condition.
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  #5  
February 4th, 2011, 05:09 AM
mgm78's Avatar Zoe's mom Meredith
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My patient said that their doctor was more concerned about getting the rest of the family vaccinated and only gave the boy Dtap. There was no discussion of shedding.
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  #6  
February 4th, 2011, 11:13 AM
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I think that waiting until you see the naturopath is an EXCELLENT idea...getting advice from someone who is more prone to natural cures and such will be more understanding of your views AND will be more able to help you find something that is best for Danny and makes you comfortable....

I completely understand your position....truly it's one of those situations that unless you've been there or ARE there you really dont know what you'd do...you can think about it and say "I think I'd do xyz" but even then....that is just a guess...once you are in that actual position you make the decision that is best for your family.....I love that you are putting so much thought into it....you aren't basing it out of fear or out of pressure....you are trying to do what you think would best benefit Danny's health in the long run...which is what we are all trying to do....Great big HUGS to you for having to go against your own beliefs in some things to do what you feel is best for him.

HUGS...keep us posted on what the naturopath says and keep us posted on what you are deciding....I know that some forums kind of feel like they are great for info but sometimes you dont really form a close bond with anyone....but with this forum and with so few people that in general have the same or similar beliefs....I think it's wonderful that we all really stand by each other's choices...whether vax free, some vaxes, delayed...etc....I really really want you to keep us posted....because I care about your situation and will be praying for you and your decision process....

HUGS
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Martha
Momma to Emma, Elzie, Gretchen, Olive, and Rogan

We aren't to give a baby milk, berries, or peanut butter. We are to introduce new foods one at a time. But it's OK to inject several viruses, bacteria, aluminum, formaldehyde, phenoxyethanol, animal serum, mercury, squalene and more into an 8 week old? I don't think so.
In order to be healthy it is an unfortunate fact that people must be allowed the opportunity to be ill. I trust my body and those of my children to work correctly against the relatively benign diseases they vax for, and do not trust the ingredients in the vaccinations.
Our choice to not vax isn't based in ignorance, poverty, conspiracy theory and rumor. It's research, common sense, fact and evidence based..something the medical community has largely forgot about.
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  #7  
February 4th, 2011, 03:42 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Knoxville,Tennessee
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Thank you so much. I have left this forum and then come back but I always wind up feeling like I never left. I am so glad to have you ladies to talk to and love how open you are with your opinions and suggestions. :') I have really needed that lately but more people are in the poor poor pitiful you stage and I am so tired of hearing I'm sorry. I just want honest advice no matter how hard it is to hear and so far this is the only place I am getting it. There is another SDS parent in the FTT board but her daughter has so many other complications that it is hard to tell what is real and what isn't.
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  #8  
February 4th, 2011, 06:22 PM
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You might google and see if you can find other forums with support groups
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Martha
Momma to Emma, Elzie, Gretchen, Olive, and Rogan

We aren't to give a baby milk, berries, or peanut butter. We are to introduce new foods one at a time. But it's OK to inject several viruses, bacteria, aluminum, formaldehyde, phenoxyethanol, animal serum, mercury, squalene and more into an 8 week old? I don't think so.
In order to be healthy it is an unfortunate fact that people must be allowed the opportunity to be ill. I trust my body and those of my children to work correctly against the relatively benign diseases they vax for, and do not trust the ingredients in the vaccinations.
Our choice to not vax isn't based in ignorance, poverty, conspiracy theory and rumor. It's research, common sense, fact and evidence based..something the medical community has largely forgot about.
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  #9  
February 4th, 2011, 07:14 PM
MommaNator's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,773
It stinks to get such a diagnosis, but I hope that knowing what it is will help Danny and help you figure out what to do. I understand why you would consider vaccinating him, especially if you feel the benefits of vaccination for him now outweigh the risks. It sounds like the specialist is thoughtful of the process and doesn't want to inundate him with many vaccines at once. I agree with the other poster that a naturopath could be a big help in this regard, and I would wait to start any vaccinations until after talking with the naturopath.

I read up a little on SDS before I replied, and I have a question: did the doctor tell you which types of Danny's white blood cells are low? If it is neutrophils, he may have trouble fighting off bacterial infections. If it is B cells (a type of lymphocte) or certain T cells, then he may have trouble forming antibodies. I would talk to the doctor about whether or not Danny has any deficiency in the antibody-making WBC, because if he does, he may or may not mount a response to a vaccine. When Mona was seeing an allergist/immunologist, there was temporarily a small question of immunological deficiency and he said that typically the Hib vaccine is used to see if a child can mount an antibody response to vaccination. I would suggest being sure (or testing) that Danny will make a reasonable amount of antibodies after vaccination; if not, there may not be a reason to do it. Also, depending on which type of immune cells are low, it may be more important to vaccinate against viruses versus bacteria (or vice versa). I wonder how the live vaccines would affect him?

Was Danny tested for any vitamin deficiencies? With insufficient pancreatic function, the body can have difficulty absorbing A, D, E and K. It would be good to know if he is absorbing the vitamin D he gets.

I hope that Danny doesn't have to spend much time at the doctor's office and that he stays well for a while, and unaware of most of this ((HUGS)) to you.
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  #10  
February 5th, 2011, 07:18 AM
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I know that before...last time he had a CBC I am really thinking was at least a year ago but I really can't remember and they didn't give us all the number for this one...when they checked his CBC record he had neutropenia and anemia. They didn't say anything about the lymphocytes but I am not sure if that is even caused by SDS. It seems like it could be since it is still produced in the bone marrow but that is what is confusing me. Everything I am reading is saying that SDS affects their ability to fight off bacteria but one of his main issues is viruses...LOTS of them. Mostly respiratory viruses like the flu, croup, general coughs, URI's, etc but those aren't even handled by neutrophils so if he only has neutropenia than that wouldn't explain the virus overload unless those cells have good numbers but bad movement. There is one thing where the cells are just slow to respond to the area that needs them thus they get sick more often and worse than most kids. I am just so overwhelmed trying to remember all of this information... There was a friend of mine last night that asked her sister in law...who is going through chemo and has to take neupogen to increase her white blood cell count...what the shots would make a three year old boy feel like. She said that the only thing she could compare it to was growing pains...times 1000. I am really hoping that he won't have to take that but I would also rather him be healthy than sick all the time. KWIM? It is just a really hard line to draw...

I will definitely look into the vitamins and lymphocytes though...I hadn't thought about that...
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