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Feedback from designers please


Forum: Graphic and Web Design

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  #21  
April 6th, 2007, 02:04 PM
Rachel's Avatar Just Rachel
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Taneytown, MD
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Quote:
I would love to help with any graphic design questions that I could answer, but I think that I'm a little confused at the moment with how this would work as far as pay designs go. There may not be any answers to these questions yet, but here's what I'm wondering about at the moment:
1. Once someone posts a request, then anyone who is interested would contact them privately? Or post in the thread that they're interested in working on their project?

2. Once the person decides who they'd like to work with, would it be paid for up front? Or is that up to the individual request?

3. What would happen if someone does copy someone else's work? and that doesn't just mean someone on here, but even duplicating another design found elsewhere on the web?

4. Would there be any measures in place to prevent people not members of JM from just registering and spamming anyone who is requesting a design?

I ask these questions because until Ben was born, I was an Admin. of a website for two years that hosted graphic design contests. The problem that we ran into in the beginning were people privately contacting the contest holders and trying to undercut the price of the contest in order to make some money. There were also a lot of instances of plagiarism - both by copying other site members work as well as work from other designers portfolios and such found on the web. Of course this site concept was different in that each contest was for several hundred dollars, and we had to screen all of the people that wanted to participate in the contests to make sure that they were capable of producing a quality product.

It seems like there are a lot of logistics that may have to be worked out in order for it to be fair for all involved? Or maybe I'm just overthinking how this would work?[/b]
Well, I think the idea of this board was for designers to network and as a bonus, members could find designers here for a fee. I don't think JM saw this board being only about designers wanting to solicit work.

I would think that requesters who want print graphics would go to a person that has made them stuff on the siggy board in the past. I have been PMed by members who are looking for that type of stuff. A few have been willing to pay. Most sites that I have seen require requesters to pay first and then a designer works with them till they are satisfied.

About copying, I really don't see this being a problem. If someone gets an idea for something that they have seen me do and they put their own effort and work into it and produce something similar, how am I hurt by that? If they aren't blatantly using my work and replacing pics (which I don't see being possible), then I don't really see an issue. JMO, though.

Finally, I would not want to see requests openly on the board. I think that can lead to price undercutting and spamming. I think that if someone wants a print graphic, they could come to this board and see who does it, see samples of the designers work and then contact that designer through PM and/or e-mail.
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  #22  
April 6th, 2007, 06:52 PM
amcghee's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,360
Quote:
Well, I think the idea of this board was for designers to network and as a bonus, members could find designers here for a fee. I don't think JM saw this board being only about designers wanting to solicit work.

I would think that requesters who want print graphics would go to a person that has made them stuff on the siggy board in the past. I have been PMed by members who are looking for that type of stuff. A few have been willing to pay. Most sites that I have seen require requesters to pay first and then a designer works with them till they are satisfied.

About copying, I really don't see this being a problem. If someone gets an idea for something that they have seen me do and they put their own effort and work into it and produce something similar, how am I hurt by that? If they aren't blatantly using my work and replacing pics (which I don't see being possible), then I don't really see an issue. JMO, though.

Finally, I would not want to see requests openly on the board. I think that can lead to price undercutting and spamming. I think that if someone wants a print graphic, they could come to this board and see who does it, see samples of the designers work and then contact that designer through PM and/or e-mail.[/b]
Rachel - I think you really thought through this well! I agree wholeheartedly that the idea of the board being for designers sharing ideas and offering their services to those who find their work through JM. I can't see it being for people wanting to "start up" a business or advertise in any way (myspace, website, etc.). I brought up the "copying others' work" only because I know that it is a sensitive issue for some. I think your attitude is great about it and appreciate your willingness to share with all of us "newbie" siggy makers! I also think that adding "galleries" and then having requestors solely pm and not post request threads is definitely the way to go, IMO!
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  #23  
April 6th, 2007, 10:28 PM
Jacquie's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,973
Quote:
I've already worked with Jacquie on Ben's 12 month clock collage. She's great, and I had no problem paying her for her time. I'd use her again, for sure. [/b]
Thanks so much, I really enjoyed making Ben's clock!

How long should someone need to be a member before being able to be a designer for this board? I don't think it should be just a time constraint. I think that the person should be able to demonstrate knowledge of basic minimum requirements for creating print graphics. It might be prudent to identify the designing members in categories of junior, intermediate, advanced. This might help to show potential buyers why you might be expected to pay more for a particular artist. As far as time goes, I think a period of 60 days and 100 posts may be a good place to start.

How long should someone need to be a member before being able to request design work on this board? I ditto Rachel on this one - I don't think any length of time on this one. If they are willing to pay for the services, I think new members should be allowed to request. If an artist feels that they may get taken advantage of by a new member, they can always decline the request.

One of the concerns that comes to my mind is how much people know about charging for these services/products. A person providing graphics for a fee must also be able to provide an invoice for the design service and end product graphic. They must also then report these sales as income. Depending on where you live, where the customer lives and how many sales you are doing per year, you may also be required to charge tax on the sale and then remit those taxes to the government.

Another concern (as someone else mentioned) is copyright. There has been a great deal of confusion on the siggies board regarding copyright. People think that just because something is contained in a brush or tube that they were able to download for free, that they are allowed to use it, which is definitely not typically the case. Another thing is that there are a lot of free brush/tube downloads that are free for personal use, but not business use. You would need to know for absolute certain which items in your collections you could use on paid graphics.

Someone also mentioned copying another person's design. On the siggies board, this is sometimes a point of contention and basic annoyance for some of the siggy makers. On a paid graphics board, you are right back to copyright. Every single design on my site is an original created by myself or Nicki (an artist that works with me). If someone were to like a design on my site, and request another person from this board to make it because they charge less, and that member agreed to copy that design, this is not only unethical, but an infringment on copyright. This is not something that JM could be expected to mediate or control, but is something that I can see being an issue.

In terms of negotiating prices in PM's, I'm not sure where that would leave those of us who have graphics design businesses. The prices that I charge have been researched - based on my education, years of experience and comparative market analysis, I arrived at the prices that I charge for paid print graphics. I have various promotions and deals throughout the year and I have always offered JM members a discount. My prices are on my website and are not something I hide. This makes it very easy for the people here to know how much to charge to come in just under anyone with a business website.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for additional free advertising and new customers, these are just some of the things that I see being possible problem areas. It took a lot of time, research and money to set up my graphics design business. I have a lawyer that handles contracts, intellectual property and copyright issues, and an accountant that informs me of the various rules and regulations that I have to follow. I just wonder if these are things that people have thought of.
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  #24  
April 7th, 2007, 09:41 AM
fka teresarunningmommy
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 47,594
Okay my thoughts.

Copyright: I know from dealing with Justmommies and our attorneys how difficult copyright is to prove. For example, our pregnancy calendar. I know that someone has copied and it looks almost identical to ours. I can find on a programming forum where this person requested someone to make a pregnancy calendar identical to ours and even had a link to our calendar on her request. Yet, after speaking to our attorney, not much we can do. She used different text even though a lot of it was similar. This being said, I know how angry I was to see someone steal our calendar and I will not tolerate copyright infringements.

I think that a requestor can make a request on the forum (or subforum should one be created) and then designers can post to it that they are sending a pm with their experience and prices. I think any negotiations should be done through the pm system or through email.

I do not think we should have a gallery on this forum as this would only facilitate complaints of one stealing someone else's idea. I think that the designers can create a portfolio if they desire (granted permission has been given by the person's photos being used or they use their own children of commercial stock photography for their portfolio). They can pm any portfolio if they desire verses posting it on the forums.

Just my thoughts on the matter.
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  #25  
April 7th, 2007, 12:58 PM
Rachel's Avatar Just Rachel
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Quote:
I do not think we should have a gallery on this forum as this would only facilitate complaints of one stealing someone else's idea. I think that the designers can create a portfolio if they desire (granted permission has been given by the person's photos being used or they use their own children of commercial stock photography for their portfolio). They can pm any portfolio if they desire verses posting it on the forums.

Just my thoughts on the matter.[/b]
I like this idea much better!
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  #26  
April 8th, 2007, 07:37 PM
ranestorm's Avatar Super Mommy
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Posts: 571
i think this board is a fantastic idea - for both designers and people looking for designs.

i agree about not having a gallery. most designers here probably post on scrapbooking/digi scrapbooking/siggie/blinkie boards and probably have a gallery on there. that would be a gallery where people could go and see examples of work if they wanted to.

as far as payment for work - i think all negotiotations should be done via PM and/or email. and i also think that half down ahead of time and half upon completion/receiving shipment is not out of line

what about quality of work? - should there be some sort of system on here where people who have ordered from the designers can rank their work or leave some sort of feedback regarding the designer? i would hate to order something from someone who is notoriously slow in replying to emails, or sending out designs or get a design shipped to me that is not the quality i expected. there should be some sort of way for the person ordering whatever it is to leave comments regarding the designer. IMHO.

i also think that someone stealing someone elses' idea shouldn't be the responsibility of JM. if our designers have integrity then we shouldn't have this going on, right?
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  #27  
April 10th, 2007, 08:00 PM
Rachel's Avatar Just Rachel
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Quote:
what about quality of work? - should there be some sort of system on here where people who have ordered from the designers can rank their work or leave some sort of feedback regarding the designer? i would hate to order something from someone who is notoriously slow in replying to emails, or sending out designs or get a design shipped to me that is not the quality i expected. there should be some sort of way for the person ordering whatever it is to leave comments regarding the designer. IMHO. [/b]
They do something like this in the swap shop here on JM. I'm gonna have to venture over there to see how they do it.
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  #28  
April 11th, 2007, 12:13 PM
pattyandthemoos's Avatar Administrator
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Location: Michigan
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I am going to write up the guidelines for this board over the weekend. I would love to start seeing some more posts on this board!
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  #29  
April 15th, 2007, 08:26 PM
Brittainy412's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Designers should either be members for at least 60 days and have 250+ posts (so that it is clear they are doing more than just starting an easy business) they also should remain active in at least one other board in my opinion. It seems tough but As a JM regular, if I would not want to purchase from someone who's sole purpose on JM would be to make money.


I like the idea of bidding on contracts... but it needs to be done through pm to eliminate undercutting. The customer would post the request describing what is being sought and designers with ideas would be able to bid through pm. The customer would need to include a close date to inform when bidding is over...


Also make very clear that posts discussing pricing will not be tolerated...

I think there needs to be a subforum for those just seeking advice and tips
There also should be a private subforum for designers only


Each designer could have a few templates in a portfolio that a customer may choose to buy as well as samples of custom orders.

Each designer needs to choose what payment options are appropriate, Paypal, money order, check
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  #30  
April 17th, 2007, 08:30 PM
mamur's Avatar Veteran
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I'm a newbie here and since I'm new I don't want to get in the middle of things. I just wanted to say as a fellow graphic designer (who is trying to run a design business & be a new mom. HAHA) I love seeing this forum here!

Though I will say that as a member of another board and getting screwed over there... I'm all for being paid for what we as designers do. It's the only way to look credible not only to our peers but to our potential customers.

I also think that a gallery type of thing where we put our portfolio up would be a great way to have others browse at their leisure and then pick the designer they want. I think it's less pressure for everyone than if we put in some sort of bidding war.
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  #31  
May 6th, 2007, 10:21 AM
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Posts: 195
I am not up to 100 or 250 posts yet as I don't tend to post very often unless I have something significant to add to the conversations on the boards. So my post count isn't that high as of yet. I just hope that if you do make it 100-250 post req. that I don't get kicked out because I have less. Either that or, I hope that by the time (if) you implement this change I will have enough posts. I'd hate to miss out on a great graphic design section because I'm not as talkative as a lot of you wonderful ladies are. It's taken me over 3 months to get to the numbers I am at today. And yes, I joined quite a long time ago, but I didn't really begin to join in with posts until I became pregnant with my second. Finding a decent forum for graphic design that isn't filled with youngsters or people trying to rip others off is difficult. I believe that JM has an amazing member base and I would not expect to see such things that have driven me away from other forums before.
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