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Feedback from designers please


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  #1  
April 5th, 2007, 08:32 AM
pattyandthemoos's Avatar Administrator
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and would appreciate any ideas or feedback that you had.
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  #2  
April 5th, 2007, 08:54 AM
pattyandthemoos's Avatar Administrator
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Questions

How long should someone need to be a member before being able to be a designer for this board? (number of posts or thirty days, or any other input)

How long should someone need to be a member before being able to request design work on this board? (number of posts, thirty days, doesn't matter, any other input)

We will be including something in the guidelines that state that any purchases for design work will be done at your own risk.

Is there any other ideas or feedback you think should be included in the guidelines. I would appreciate any input.
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  #3  
April 5th, 2007, 08:55 AM
Rachel's Avatar Just Rachel
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I'm so excited to see this board! I'll have to think about some suggestions. I'll be back to post later.
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  #4  
April 5th, 2007, 09:09 AM
detk's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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This board is a great idea!

To be honest, I'm not sure how to answer the questions yet.. I think I have more questions than answers... lol

Is every design going to be a pay design?
How does pricing go? Does each designer sets up his own price or do we agree on common prices?


If every design is pay design, than I wouldn't set any posts requirement on requesting members... But for free design I would definitively set a time requirement (I prefer that over post numbers as anyone can go answers many various posts in one day and get to 30, then get their free graphic and not be back). As for makers, I would think there should be one if you want the designers to be JM active members as oppose to any designer who want to set up 'shop' here. But if you don't mind anyone setting shop on this board than a very low number of days or posts will be good enough, or even not at all.

It might be a crazy idea and probably too complicated... But, if we want quality designs or JM involed designers, then maybe we can ask designers to contribute to the siggy, blinkie, or scrapbooking board first before being 'allowed' to set up shop... or something of the sort.

Ok, here are just first ideas but I'll think more about it and I'm looking forward to see what everyone else has to say.
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  #5  
April 5th, 2007, 09:18 AM
pattyandthemoos's Avatar Administrator
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Right now, I would like to let you girls decide how you want to do things on the board. I do not plan to do graphic design on this board. I have entirely too many things I am trying to do already. I would not do graphic design for free, though. I think that you girls should be compensated for birth announcement designs or website graphics.

I would like to wait for hosts and feedback before we set up guidelines for the board. I suppose if members want to work for free, I wouldn't stop them. I just don't really think you should. I don't want to see people with birth announcement websites coming around just to spam this board. I think you should be a contributing member of the board to participate.
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  #6  
April 5th, 2007, 09:37 AM
detk's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Right now, I would like to let you girls decide how you want to do things on the board. I do not plan to do graphic design on this board. I have entirely too many things I am trying to do already. I would not do graphic design for free, though. I think that you girls should be compensated for birth announcement designs or website graphics.

I would like to wait for hosts and feedback before we set up guidelines for the board. I suppose if members want to work for free, I wouldn't stop them. I just don't really think you should. I don't want to see people with birth announcement websites coming around just to spam this board. I think you should be a contributing member of the board to participate.[/b]
I agree that I personnaly woudn't do graphic design for free either... especially not print graphics (working such large files takes me so much more time than web graphic).
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  #7  
April 5th, 2007, 09:56 AM
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I really like the input so far, and am really excited to see this board! Just some immediate thoughts - I really think that any design should be for a price. After all, you're providing a service for someone that takes a considerable amount of time and talent, so there should be compensation. If people start offering services for free, then anyone who will only do work for pay won't be able to do anything.

You're definitely going to need some sort of disclaimer stating that JM is not responsible for any design (whether or not they are satisfied, if it prints correctly, if the don't get what they pay for, etc....) or the quality of the final product. Also just a thought, but anyone doing any sort of design also needs to be well aware of copyright laws and such. The use of many of the free fonts, free digital scrapbook elements, and clipart is fine for personal use - such as siggies, but once you start getting paid for things, then the rules of using them completely change in most cases and then its considered commercial use.

I'm not really sure what the best way to go about setting this up is at the moment. Would the people wanting say a birth announcement or something contact a designer directly? Or would they post their request and then people put in bids or something like that? How would the payment be handled? Not sure what would be the best way yet - but will think about it.

I definitely think that any designer should be a long-standing member here first. Especially when money is involved, you don' t want people pretending to be something they're not, or just joining here to try to make some cash.

OK - will stop rambling right now. I think that this has the potential to be alot of fun! and should be a great benefit to the JM members, too!
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  #8  
April 5th, 2007, 10:42 AM
Madeline410's Avatar Maddie
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Wow this is exciting! I also agree that all designs should have a fee. Who would pay if you could get it for free kwim? I have made things for a few friends and I spent so much time on them, I almost wish I would have charged.

Maybe there can be a pay scale sort of thing.. the more experience, the higher you charge.

I think both requestors and designers should be a member of Justmommies for a fair amount of time. At least a month.
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  #9  
April 5th, 2007, 11:58 AM
amcghee's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Wow! I think this board will be wonderful, but agree that some guidelines/specifications are most necessary. First, I agree with Maddie about "why pay for it if you can get it for free?" I think all requests would have to be for hire only.

Here are my general concerns and questions:

1. Copyright. As Jenn stated, many people aren't aware of the issues with using many of the fonts/brushes like we do for siggies on pay graphics. I would love to do something like this, but would worry about that issue foremost if I were paid to make something.

2. FFA's. Would many people design for a requestor and then that requestor chooses? That's a lot of work for people who then wouldn't get paid. Is the alternative having some sort of "gallery" like on the siggy board of graphic designers and their work that someone would choose specifically from? That somewhat limits creativity, right? Hmmm...

4. Along with that, how would someone know what quality they are getting unless we have designs or galleries? If I were choosing to pay for something, I would think that I'd want to see that person's work and pay accordingly. Perhaps we could offer tiers of sorts like Maddie said. But, then would people categorize themselves?? Would there be a beginner (less expensive) intermediate (middle price) and expert (more pricey)? It's a tricky thing when it comes to payment! (And as for payment, I'd suggest Paypal. It's quick, easy, and secure!)

3. Idea sharing/stealing and hurt feelings. I would worry about some people being hurt if/when a design was reproduced between graphic makers. We do a lot of gallery browsing and idea sharing on the siggy board with very little hurt feelings or copyright "idea" infringement problems because we aren't infringing on others' businesses. With this, it could get tricky. How would someone protect their "style" or "ideas"?? Or would it be set up with a disclaimer to makers that no idea was copyrighted, so to speak...?? I would hate for people to be upset or feel like others are stealing from them, kwim??

Just a few ideas to ponder...what a great forum, though. I love how thoughtfully and intelligently we all can discuss things on this board!!! Yay for us!
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  #10  
April 5th, 2007, 12:35 PM
dzine21's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Butting in here- what about other boards where ladies take tons of time to help you out? Like the budgeting board. I know those ladies have take so much time to help me. (thank you) Evenly, they should get paid for what they do.

I say free service. If you want something more elaborate, then I think business should be done off the boards.

JMO.
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  #11  
April 5th, 2007, 12:57 PM
pattyandthemoos's Avatar Administrator
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Quote:
Butting in here- what about other boards where ladies take tons of time to help you out? Like the budgeting board. I know those ladies have take so much time to help me. (thank you) Evenly, they should get paid for what they do.

I say free service. If you want something more elaborate, then I think business should be done off the boards.

JMO.[/b]
I am not sure what to say about other boards. I think on this board, if people were coming here to ask advice about graphic design, how to make a logo, where to get started, etc. I would spend plenty of time helping and teaching them how to do it. I don't think anyone is having someone file their taxes for free on the financial boards, or setting up someones web business for free on the work at home moms board. I think they are offering advice. I would be completely comfortable doing this for free. In fact, I think we have done plenty of that with siggy school and digi school.
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  #12  
April 5th, 2007, 01:16 PM
fka teresarunningmommy
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My two cents. I also think it should be paid requests only. I know we have a lot of gals that do graphic design professionally and it would be counter productive to their business. I think that we should try real hard to make this more of a graphic design discussion verses a graphic design request board. Perhaps just have a sticky or subforum for members willing to do print graphics/logo design, etc for a fee. Just like the WAHM discusses WAHM stuff, but is not allowed to spam their business. I know I am a very busy person and would not do graphic design for free except for siggies or graphics to be used on Justmommies. I would however be willing to barter graphic design.

Teresa
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  #13  
April 5th, 2007, 01:24 PM
Rachel's Avatar Just Rachel
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How long should someone need to be a member before being able to be a designer for this board? I think at least 100 posts and been a member for 30 days (at least, maybe longer).

How long should someone need to be a member before being able to request design work on this board? I don't think any length of time on this one. If they are willing to pay for the services, I think new members should be allowed to request.

We will be including something in the guidelines that state that any purchases for design work will be done at your own risk. This is a must, in my opinion, as I'm sure JM doesn't want to mediate disputes between designers and requesters.

I would also be concerned about members undercutting each other in price. I would suggest that price negotiations be done through PM so that no one knows what the other designer is charging.

That's all that comes out right now. I have other ideas, but they are coming together well, so I have to work out how I want to word them.
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  #14  
April 5th, 2007, 01:31 PM
Rachel's Avatar Just Rachel
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Quote:
2. FFA's. Would many people design for a requestor and then that requestor chooses? That's a lot of work for people who then wouldn't get paid. Is the alternative having some sort of "gallery" like on the siggy board of graphic designers and their work that someone would choose specifically from? That somewhat limits creativity, right? Hmmm...[/b]
I don't see FFA type requests working here. I wouldn't want to devote the amount of time it takes to make a print graphic and not get paid for it in the end.
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  #15  
April 5th, 2007, 01:34 PM
BensMom's Avatar Ephesians 4:29
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Quote:
Butting in here- what about other boards where ladies take tons of time to help you out? Like the budgeting board. I know those ladies have take so much time to help me. (thank you) Evenly, they should get paid for what they do.

I say free service. If you want something more elaborate, then I think business should be done off the boards.

JMO.[/b]
WOW! Thanks for thinking about us!

I haven't been licensed in several years, but I do remember some sort of securities licensing law about charging for financial services w/o a license and across state (country) lines. I REALLY don't think that's something Patty and Teresa want to deal with setting up or risk going to jail over. It's not at all like starting your own graphics business. Also, I think a lot of the people who come to the financial board (the one-timers) are really there for peace of mind and to learn budgeting skills. It's true that we've spent a LOT of time and helped people who really, REALLY needed a major overhaul of their entire financial situation, but they couldn't have afforded to pay for that kind of advice anyway, KWIM? Personally, I'd prefer to keep the financial board free. It does take time to come up with an entire financial plan for people (budget, debt payoff, savings, etc.), but that crosses into so many specialties, that each person giving advice would have to get licensed in the state of the person they're dealing with. That's way more than I'm willing to do. It cost me $10k to get my financial business up and running a few years ago, and then I lost it because IRL I'm extreeeeeeeeeeeeeeemely shy! I couldn't get very many clients. Since September, I've already done over 70 financial plans for people at JM. Statistically speaking, I would've had to call over 70,000 people IRL to get that kind of response. (In the finacial industry, for every 1000 people you talk to, 100 will make an appointment, 10 will actually show up, and 1 will use/buy your services after the initial meeting. Not very good odds. )

As for this graphic board... WHAT A COOL IDEA!! I'm not a graphic designer, although I've taken a couple of classes and dabbled with photoshop, and I would LOVE to learn how to make cartoons in the future. It's nice to know that this board is here if/when I'm ready to start a business. I've already worked with Jacquie on Ben's 12 month clock collage. She's great, and I had no problem paying her for her time. I'd use her again, for sure. I agree with the pp that there should be some type of gallery or "visit my website" kind of thing so that you know what quality to expect. I also agree that designers should be active on the siggy/blinkie board at least for a short time just to get their name out there and so people can see what it's like to work with those people (turn-around times, designing according to specific requests, etc.)
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  #16  
April 5th, 2007, 04:02 PM
detk's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Butting in here- what about other boards where ladies take tons of time to help you out? Like the budgeting board. I know those ladies have take so much time to help me. (thank you) Evenly, they should get paid for what they do.

I say free service. If you want something more elaborate, then I think business should be done off the boards.

JMO.[/b]

I think most people who would do graphic design here are actually people already doing graphics for others on the siggy board and on the blinkie board, so they too have given countless hours of their own time to render other JM members a service for free. I agree with the others that I woudn't do print graphic for free, on top of taking an ever larger amount of my time to complete something, they might be some costs involved for the designer. For exemple, most free cliparts sites graphics are way too small to use on a print graphic, bigger quality graphics are only usually obtained at a cost. Also, I like to test my print graphic by printing it first before giving it to someone else, there would be costs there too.... ect.

Quote:
3. Idea sharing/stealing and hurt feelings. I would worry about some people being hurt if/when a design was reproduced between graphic makers. We do a lot of gallery browsing and idea sharing on the siggy board with very little hurt feelings or copyright "idea" infringement problems because we aren't infringing on others' businesses. With this, it could get tricky. How would someone protect their "style" or "ideas"?? Or would it be set up with a disclaimer to makers that no idea was copyrighted, so to speak...?? I would hate for people to be upset or feel like others are stealing from them, kwim??[/b]
I agree with you there, we would have to have a good discussion on the subject and set up guidelines for that.


Another idea might be to set up a few requirements for designers, but ultimately still need approval from the hosts of the boards (at their own discretion) before being allowed to offer services.
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  #17  
April 5th, 2007, 07:47 PM
dkmommy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I definitely think that any designer should be a long-standing member here first. Especially when money is involved, you don' t want people pretending to be something they're not, or just joining here to try to make some cash.[/b]
ITA. i also agree with rachel about negotions being done by PM so not everyone knows how much people are charging/paying.

i think this board is a great idea, i've been wanting to start my own small business doing wedding invitations, baby shower stuff and so on - so this will be a great place to get some advice, but also get my feet wet in it

i think everyone covered things really well, i don't really have too much to ad to the rules and stuff, but i'll put my thinking cap on and see if i can come up with anything else
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  #18  
April 5th, 2007, 08:34 PM
Madeline410's Avatar Maddie
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So would we be able to advertise our work/galleries (if we make them) for free in our siggies on JM? Or would we have to become an image sponser? What about elsewhere on the web?

I'm just thinking along the lines of myspace and personal websites.. what if people started advertising their work from this forum on their myspace and it turned into more of a business than a discussion forum? Does that make sense lol I'm tired and can't get my words out.
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  #19  
April 6th, 2007, 08:46 AM
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Just wanted to say sounds like it will be a good forum.
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  #20  
April 6th, 2007, 01:03 PM
JennL
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I would love to help with any graphic design questions that I could answer, but I think that I'm a little confused at the moment with how this would work as far as pay designs go. There may not be any answers to these questions yet, but here's what I'm wondering about at the moment:
1. Once someone posts a request, then anyone who is interested would contact them privately? Or post in the thread that they're interested in working on their project?

2. Once the person decides who they'd like to work with, would it be paid for up front? Or is that up to the individual request?

3. What would happen if someone does copy someone else's work? and that doesn't just mean someone on here, but even duplicating another design found elsewhere on the web?

4. Would there be any measures in place to prevent people not members of JM from just registering and spamming anyone who is requesting a design?

I ask these questions because until Ben was born, I was an Admin. of a website for two years that hosted graphic design contests. The problem that we ran into in the beginning were people privately contacting the contest holders and trying to undercut the price of the contest in order to make some money. There were also a lot of instances of plagiarism - both by copying other site members work as well as work from other designers portfolios and such found on the web. Of course this site concept was different in that each contest was for several hundred dollars, and we had to screen all of the people that wanted to participate in the contests to make sure that they were capable of producing a quality product.

It seems like there are a lot of logistics that may have to be worked out in order for it to be fair for all involved? Or maybe I'm just overthinking how this would work?
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