Log In Sign Up

Spiritualism in America/Halloween


Forum: Christian Parenting

Notices

Welcome to the JustMommies Message Boards.

We pride ourselves on having the friendliest and most welcoming forums for moms and moms to be! Please take a moment and register for free so you can be a part of our growing community of mothers. If you have any problems registering please drop an email to boards@justmommies.com.

Our community is moderated by our moderation team so you won't see spam or offensive messages posted on our forums. Each of our message boards is hosted by JustMommies hosts, whose names are listed at the top each board. We hope you find our message boards friendly, helpful, and fun to be on!

Reply Post New Topic
  Subscribe To Christian Parenting LinkBack Topic Tools Search this Topic Display Modes
  #1  
October 25th, 2012, 09:08 AM
mamaginger's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,305
First Bible study topic! I wanted to start with this because it's Halloween season and while I am a Halloween lover, I don't like the scary stuff or the celebration of death and gore. I love dressing up as normal characters, trick or treating, hayrides, bonfires, fall leaves, pumpkins, etc. I thought I would start by asking you some questions. You can either copy/paste and answer (even if your answer is "I don't know") or you can just ask yourself and be thinking about it. I'm sure this thread will prob have 30 views and one reply! Lol

I started taking notes on things like astrology, psychics, mediums, and that type of thing about a year ago when I discovered that some good friends of mine believed in this kind of stuff, found it very comforting and believed that psychics/mediums get their "powers" from "god." They asked me why it was ok for prophets in the Bible to predict the future but not ok for a psychic to predict the future. This stumped me at the time. I was also just amazed that somebody I knew really believed in this stuff and it made me wonder how many more do too.

Ok so questions:

Do you believe these people have powers and if so, from whom? (God/Satan/something else)

When a medium seems to contact a dead relative or know true facts about them, how is this possible? Or do you think it's all coincidence/manipulation?

Do you believe in ghosts? If so, what are they? (dead spirits of the once living/demons/angels/something else)

Do you know what a familiar spirit is?

Do you think it's ok to play games that involve Ouija boards, 8 balls, tarot cards or other similar cards, etc?

Is it ok to read horoscopes? Do you believe in horoscopes and reading signs from the stars?

Do you think that the scary movies/tv shows, costumes, haunted houses and other things meant to bring fear "for fun" or things that remind us of death are just "all in good fun" for the Halloween season or do you think there is something darker behind all of it?

Do you think there is an agenda specifically against our children to desensitize them and make them curious/intrigued by things that have always represented the occult? To this question I would just like to add a few movies/shows/commercials off the top of my head: Harry Potter, Twilight, Wizards of Waverly Place, My Babysitter's a Vampire, Vampire Diaries, Bratzillas (dolls that look like witches), Paranorman, and many other commercials I've seen that depict children predicting the future or having supernatural powers or powers similar those from Bewitched.

Is there such thing as a "good witch" and a "bad witch"?

Do you think Christians should participate in a holiday that glamorizes fear and death as a means of entertainment or watch tv/movies or read books that make what use to be the ugly bad guy....now a very sensual, alluring and "good" but misunderstood character?

Ok...before anyone gets mad....lol....let me just say again that we DO celebrate Halloween in the sense that we dress up as non scary characters and go trick or treating. We have pumpkins, fall leaves and orange lights for decorations. And I also am personally a huge Twilight fan. I've read all the books, seen and bought all the movies...but...I'm 33 years old and very secure in my faith and beliefs. Twilight is targeted to kids and teens.

Ok....come on and respond now! No lurking allowed!! Haha.
__________________
~ Ginger



For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb...I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made...My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together...Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. Psalm 139: 13-16


Last edited by mamaginger; November 29th, 2012 at 12:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
October 25th, 2012, 09:30 AM
Countrymom4's Avatar Chrystal
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 3,576
Do you believe these people have powers and if so, from whom? (God/Satan/something else) I have never really thought hard about it, I always assumed satan.

When a medium seems to contact a dead relative or know true facts about them, how is this possible? Or do you think it's all coincidence/manipulation? I think there is truth in them knowing from a unknow source or satan to lure you in.

Do you believe in ghosts? If so, what are they? (dead spirits of the once living/demons/angels/something else) I go back and forth on this one, if there is ghosts they are dead spirits


Do you know what a familiar spirit is? no

Do you think it's ok to play games that involve Ouija boards, 8 balls, tarot cards or other similar cards, etc? NO

Is it ok to read horoscopes? Do you believe in horoscopes and reading signs from the stars? don't read don't believe

Do you think that the scary movies/tv shows, costumes, haunted houses and other things meant to bring fear "for fun" or things that remind us of death are just "all in good fun" for the Halloween season or do you think there is something darker behind all of it? never thought about it before. We don't like that kind of stuff so we just stay away from it

Do you think there is an agenda specifically against our children to desensitize them and make them curious/intrigued by things that have always represented the occult? To this question I would just like to add a few movies/shows/commercials off the top of my head: Harry Potter, Twilight, Wizards of Waverly Place, My Babysitter's a Vampire, Vampire Diaries, Bratzillas (dolls that look like witches), Paranorman, and many other commercials I've seen that depict children predicting the future or having supernatural powers or powers similar those from Bewitched. oh probly

Is there such thing as a "good witch" and a "bad witch"? no

Do you think Christians should participate in a holiday that glamorizes fear and death as a means of entertainment or watch tv/movies or read books that make what use to be the ugly bad guy....now a very sensual, alluring and "good" but misunderstood character? we do dres up and play along. But we don't play up the darker meanings with our children
__________________



Reply With Quote
  #3  
October 25th, 2012, 10:40 AM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,084
Do you believe these people have powers and if so, from whom? (God/Satan/something else)I believe that there is a spiritual realm that I don't fully understand. While I don't believe that this comes from God (because that is not where they are seeking the info) I do not know who it does come from

When a medium seems to contact a dead relative or know true facts about them, how is this possible? Or do you think it's all coincidence/manipulation?Again I don't know, I think it can be a bit of everything. Sometimes when you see or hear of this on tv they are so vague it's silly. Sometimes it's so specific. Again I think there is a realm that is beyond my capacity for knowledge and I'm sure that plays a lot into it.

Do you believe in ghosts? If so, what are they? (dead spirits of the once living/demons/angels/something else)I don't know. I believe in spirits, I guess (not that I say that I guess it's the same thing) I think again it comes from the spiritual realm I don't understand

Do you know what a familiar spirit is? I've never heard that term before, so I googled it. seems like some sort of demon.

Do you think it's ok to play games that involve Ouija boards, 8 balls, tarot cards or other similar cards, etc? I would say absolutely no, but in all honesty I've asked magic 8 balls questions before. lol I see that as a light hearted game of chance more than the others, which are trying to connect with the spiritual realm.

Is it ok to read horoscopes? Do you believe in horoscopes and reading signs from the stars?I guess it's not the act of reading them, but what you do/think of the information that leads to trouble. Personally I think that again there are enough people into it that are using influences that are from a negative place, that I don't want to be involved in any way. I have always kinda thought they were silly and vague as well

Do you think that the scary movies/tv shows, costumes, haunted houses and other things meant to bring fear "for fun" or things that remind us of death are just "all in good fun" for the Halloween season or do you think there is something darker behind all of it?I do think that there is more to it. I am not able to watch ANYTHING scary... haha even some episodes of CSI or Law and Order, are too much for me. After watching something like this I often get horrible nightmares, and that tells me that more is at play than 'just in fun' entertainment.

Do you think there is an agenda specifically against our children to desensitize them and make them curious/intrigued by things that have always represented the occult? To this question I would just like to add a few movies/shows/commercials off the top of my head: Harry Potter, Twilight, Wizards of Waverly Place, My Babysitter's a Vampire, Vampire Diaries, Bratzillas (dolls that look like witches), Paranorman, and many other commercials I've seen that depict children predicting the future or having supernatural powers or powers similar those from Bewitched. Do I think the media is 'out to get our kids'? no. Do I think a stronger power is? yes. Most of these things I've never heard of, and I'm not a very sheltered person (I think I'm just from the wrong generation) I think that we have to be EXTREMELY careful what we allow into our children's minds through tv, movies and music. Or at the very least have real conversations about what has been seen or heard.

Is there such thing as a "good witch" and a "bad witch"? this is an interesting question. I once met the sweetest woman (she was a volunteer ticket taker at the showers at a country music festival I go to with my family every year) She was just so kind and we had a really great conversation (it was a long line for the showers!) it turns out that she was a practicing witch. Her beliefs were FAR from mine, but I respected her as a person, and a really great one at that! However I don't believe that there are good and bad witches. Being involved in witchcraft and sorcery is a product of Satan's grip on this world in my opinion

Do you think Christians should participate in a holiday that glamorizes fear and death as a means of entertainment or watch tv/movies or read books that make what use to be the ugly bad guy....now a very sensual, alluring and "good" but misunderstood character? Halloween was a holiday celebrated on the eve of All Saint's Day, in Europe there was a huge religious overtone and there was a very 'spiritual' side to it. However once it crossed over to America it really changed to a secular community based event. It wasn't until the 1920s and 30s that people would dress up in 'scary' costumes and vandalize property/ cause mischief. Post WW2 it became a child centered holiday and the treats being handed out were part of the tradition. I don't think that the holiday glamorizes fear or death at all. I do think that our society has grown to a place where spooky decorations and costumes are given out but that was not the result of 'Halloween' it was the result of our society taking an interest in the spiritual world


Also, I want to clarify what we are like. DH and I both grew up dressing up and trick or treating. I was not allowed to be anything 'scary, or gross' (although I did have some WEIRD costumes-my mom made them and one year I asked to be 1/2 man 1/2 woman so she sewed a pink bathrobe to a mans suit... I was an odd duck) I don't know what to expect from our area as far as how many kids trick or treat. We may look for alternatives for our children... not because we are 'against it' but because our area is so limiting anyways.

I also read Twilight! I liked the books..but come on.....those movies were brutally bad!
__________________




Reply With Quote
  #4  
October 26th, 2012, 01:34 PM
mamma_anna's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,953
This is an interesting topic for me because my mom dabbled in witchcraft/paganism for a while when I was a teenager so I was exposed to a lot of it. Most of it freaked me out and/or just seemed stupid.

Do you believe these people have powers and if so, from whom? (God/Satan/something else) I do believe that some people are blessed with real empathic abilities and they are able to sense things about people or situations that most of us don't notice. I do believe that this empathic gift comes from God. But I don't believe that people can communicate with the dead or with the "spirit world" like the "mediums" we see on tv. Most of that is just a scam.

When a medium seems to contact a dead relative or know true facts about them, how is this possible? Or do you think it's all coincidence/manipulation? I think sometimes it's an empathic gift but I don't think it's as clear or as specific as a dead person talking to a medium in the same way that you and I could have a conversation over the phone. (Am I making any sense? )

Do you believe in ghosts? If so, what are they? (dead spirits of the once living/demons/angels/something else) No I don't believe in ghosts. I also don't believe in "limbo" or a "spirit realm" or anything like that. When we die, our spirit is released back to God. You either spend eternity with Jesus or you don't. There is no in-between. I don't believe a merciful God would allow our spirits to be trapped between this world and the next.

Do you know what a familiar spirit is? This one is new to me too. From googling it, it's not what I thought it was.

Do you think it's ok to play games that involve Ouija boards, 8 balls, tarot cards or other similar cards, etc? Ouija boards and tarot cards and things like that, no. They still freak me out even though I know they're made by the same people who make "MONOPOLY". My girls did have a "magic 8 ball for a while but they knew it was basically just a game of chance/coincedence. They lost interest in it very quickly.

Is it ok to read horoscopes? Do you believe in horoscopes and reading signs from the stars? No I don't believe in them. Especially the ones that get printed in the paper. I don't think there's anything wrong with reading them out of curiosity as long as they're treated as fiction not fact. This is something that my mom still strongly believes in though. She likes to point out to me that the 3 wise men were likely astrologers and that God designed the universe. He placed all the stars exactly where they are. "Why couldn't it be plausible that the stars could tell us things?" But in my experience, horoscopes, zodiac signs and all of that are so rarely accurate. There are too many "exceptions" and pieces to the puzzle to explain why someone's personality or experience wouldn't match up with what their chart says. I think we become who we are out of our life experiences and the personality traits that God blesses us with. I don't believe He created the stars to rule over us or determine anything for us.

Do you think that the scary movies/tv shows, costumes, haunted houses and other things meant to bring fear "for fun" or things that remind us of death are just "all in good fun" for the Halloween season or do you think there is something darker behind all of it? Yes and no. It's a fine line, I think between having fun and glorifying evil. I think Satan does try to use these things to trick us and lure us away from God. He's really good at twisting "harmless fun" into something that really is evil. And he's so deceptive about it that we usually don't notice.
We talk to the girls a lot, especially when they're younger, about the difference between reality and make believe and about being respectful of people's feelings. (i.e. not everyone likes to be scared or be part of a joke.) We have a lot of conversations with them about death and dying and honoring the memories of those who've passed on. It's really important to me that they understand death is not something to ever make light of but it's not something to fear either. We make a point not to include any references to death or violence in our family halloween celebrations.

Do you think there is an agenda specifically against our children to desensitize them and make them curious/intrigued by things that have always represented the occult? I don't think it's quite that pionted or deliberate. But I think that makes it even more dangerous. It gets saturated into the culture little by little until it's almost impossible to see it for what it really is. This is how Satan works. But I don't think adults are making concious desicions to expose kids to the occult. No.

Is there such thing as a "good witch" and a "bad witch"? Like from "The Wizard of Oz"? No. I think people who practice wicca are not any more "good" or "bad" than the rest of us. I think most of them are just like my mom was. Broken, misguided and searching for something.

Do you think Christians should participate in a holiday that glamorizes fear and death as a means of entertainment or watch tv/movies or read books that make what use to be the ugly bad guy....now a very sensual, alluring and "good" but misunderstood character? I don't think there's anything wrong with Christians choosing to participate or not participate in Halloween celebrations. But I don't think Christians (or anyone) should be "glamorizing" fear and death either and it can be a challenge not to fall into that trap because of how our culture has come to celebrate halloween.
As far as tv/movies/books etc... I think most of that is just make believe, harmless fun. As long as it's age appropriate and parents are having honest conversations with their kids about what they're watching or reading, then it can be a good thing. Unfortunately though, most parents don't have those conversations and they allow their kids to see things waaaay before they're ready for them. That's when it becomes dangerous.
Meagan and Abbey have both read all the Harry Potter books and seen all the movies. They loved them and I do think they learned some good things from them but we didn't let them start reading these books until we were sure they were able to understand that it's just fantasy. Kayla has just started reading the first book with Rick. She's enjoying it and Rick is really talking with her about it as they read so I know I don't have anything to worry about. Ellie won't be reading the books or seeing the movies for a long time still. She's just not ready for those kinds of stories.
Vampire stories like "Twilight" just haven't been our thing so far. But some of Kayla's friends are in to them so we'll see what comes up. I think we'll be okay if we approach it the same way we have with Harry Potter.

We will be going to a Halloween party at a friend's house this weekend and this year since Halloween falls on a Wednesday we'll go trick or treating with a group from church after the mid-week service. No scary costumes or haunted houses for us. Ellie is really, really not a fan of Halloween at all so we won't be out long.
__________________






Reply With Quote
  #5  
October 26th, 2012, 03:30 PM
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 400
Do you believe these people have powers and if so, from whom? (God/Satan/something else) I would say Satan.

When a medium seems to contact a dead relative or know true facts about them, how is this possible? Or do you think it's all coincidence/manipulation? I believe they can find those things out through Satan.

Do you believe in ghosts? If so, what are they? (dead spirits of the once living/demons/angels/something else) Demons.

Do you know what a familiar spirit is? no

Do you think it's ok to play games that involve Ouija boards, 8 balls, tarot cards or other similar cards, etc? no

Is it ok to read horoscopes? Do you believe in horoscopes and reading signs from the stars?no

Do you think that the scary movies/tv shows, costumes, haunted houses and other things meant to bring fear "for fun" or things that remind us of death are just "all in good fun" for the Halloween season or do you think there is something darker behind all of it? While I know that most people celebrate Halloween for the fun of everything, I think that it opens doors for bad things.

Do you think there is an agenda specifically against our children to desensitize them and make them curious/intrigued by things that have always represented the occult? To this question I would just like to add a few movies/shows/commercials off the top of my head: Harry Potter, Twilight, Wizards of Waverly Place, My Babysitter's a Vampire, Vampire Diaries, Bratzillas (dolls that look like witches), Paranorman, and many other commercials I've seen that depict children predicting the future or having supernatural powers or powers similar those from Bewitched.
We don't let our kids watch any of that and they know why they're not allowed to.

Is there such thing as a "good witch" and a "bad witch"?no

Do you think Christians should participate in a holiday that glamorizes fear and death as a means of entertainment or watch tv/movies or read books that make what use to be the ugly bad guy....now a very sensual, alluring and "good" but misunderstood character? nope

Just wanted to add that growing up, we celebrated Halloween not knowing the history behind it. Once I married hubby and he told me why he didn't celebrate it, I agreed and we have not celebrated with our kids. We do buy them candy so they don't feel like they're missing out.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
November 1st, 2012, 05:15 PM
mamaginger's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,305
Ok, I'm going to attempt to post some scripture pertaining to all this. There is so much!

First, here are the references to each "Forbidden Practice" as listed in my Dake study Bible. You can look some of them up on your own. Some I may quote here.

12 Forbidden Heathen Practices:

1. Enchantment - practice of magical arts
(Ex. 7:11, 22; 8:7, 18; Lev.19:26; Deut. 18:10; 2 Chron 33:6; 2 Kings 17:17; 21:6 ; Isaiah 47:9, 12; Jer 27:9; Dan 1:20)

2. Witchcraft - practice of dealing with evil spirits
(Ex. 22:18; Deut. 18:10, 1 Sam 15:23; 2 Chron 33:6; 2 Kings 9:22; Micah 5:12; Nah. 3:4; Galatians 5:19-21)

3. Sorcery - same as witchcraft (this one repeats most of the above passages)

4. Sooth-saying - same as witchcraft " " "

5. Divination - the art of mystic insight or fortune-telling
(Num. 22:7; 23:23; Deut. 18:10-14; 2 Kings 17:17; 1 Sam. 6:2; Jer 14:14; 27:9; 29:8; Ezek. 12:24; 13: 6-7, 23; 21: 22-29; 22:28; Mic. 3:7; Zech. 10:2; Acts 16:16)

6. Wizardry - same as witchcraft but by males

7. Necromancy - divination (fortune telling) by means of PRETENDED communication with the dead.
(Deut. 18:11; Isaiah 8:19; 1 Sam 28; 1 Chron. 10:13)

8. Magic - any pretended supernatural art or practice
(Gen. 41:8, 24; Ex. 7:11, 22; 8:7, 18-19; 9:11; Dan. 1:20; 2:2, 10, 27; 4:7, 9; 5:11; Acts 19:19)

9. Charm - to put a spell on, same as enchantment

10. Prognostication - to foretell by indications, omens, signs, etc. (Isaiah 47:13)

11. Observing Times - same as prognostication (Lev. 19:26; Deut. 18:10; 2 Kings 21:6; 2 Chron. 33:6)

12. Astrology and Star Gazing - fortune telling by stars (Isaiah 47:13, Jer. 10:2; Dan. 1:20; 2:2, 10; 4:7; 5:7-15)

Dake goes on to say "All of the above practices were and still are carried on in connection with demons, called 'familiar spirits.'"

I know some of you already googled it but here is how one website explains familiar spirits:

"In reality mediums are contacting demons who convince the mediums that they are “familiar” and can be trusted and believed. Familiar spirits and spirit guides are under the control of their master, Satan. They influence people to spread lies and deceit in order to thwart the kingdom of God.

Ok posting and typing more...
__________________
~ Ginger



For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb...I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made...My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together...Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. Psalm 139: 13-16


Last edited by mamaginger; November 1st, 2012 at 05:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
November 2nd, 2012, 02:37 PM
docsmomma's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 7,096
Send a message via AIM to docsmomma
Do you believe these people have powers and if so, from whom? (God/Satan/something else) This is a tough one for me. For the most part, I believe people have "powers" that come from satan. However, I also believe that God can give people messages that may seem like "telling the future" or what not.

When a medium seems to contact a dead relative or know true facts about them, how is this possible? Or do you think it's all coincidence/manipulation? its fairly simple to "have information" about someones loved ones, if you remain non-specific. However, I do believe this information can be delivered through demons to those who allow it.

Do you believe in ghosts? If so, what are they? (dead spirits of the once living/demons/angels/something else) this is a tough one for me as well. I think that I don't know. I don't understand the spiritual realm as much as I would like. I do think most of the time people choose to believe they see or sense ghosts, whether its a "ghost", or a demon or just a shadow.

Do you know what a familiar spirit is? yes. I spent a lot of time in my teen years believing in witchcraft and such. Not a topic I enjoy discussing

Do you think it's ok to play games that involve Ouija boards, 8 balls, tarot cards or other similar cards, etc? personally, no. I feel its too much of a gateway. I don not allow my kids to play with them, I do not allow them inside my house.

Is it ok to read horoscopes? Do you believe in horoscopes and reading signs from the stars? well... I read them mainly for the laughs. Because sometimes they are funny. But I don't believe the time I was born and the stars can tell me how my day will be or if its a lucky or unlucky day

Do you think that the scary movies/tv shows, costumes, haunted houses and other things meant to bring fear "for fun" or things that remind us of death are just "all in good fun" for the Halloween season or do you think there is something darker behind all of it? I think there are many legends behind halloween. We however choose to celebrate it as "All Saints Eve" instead. We still do the pumpkins (I light them just for pictures, other than that no candles allowed), the trick or treating, non-scary costumes (though daddy has allowed scary ones which annoys me). It is a holiday we struggle with because of all thats around it and because David's father taught him about his beliefs (his father believes himself to be a powerful witch who can contact the spirits easiest on halloween) and really pushed all the scary stuff at him and how "its not scary if you know how to ward it off)

Do you think there is an agenda specifically against our children to desensitize them and make them curious/intrigued by things that have always represented the occult? To this question I would just like to add a few movies/shows/commercials off the top of my head: Harry Potter, Twilight, Wizards of Waverly Place, My Babysitter's a Vampire, Vampire Diaries, Bratzillas (dolls that look like witches), Paranorman, and many other commercials I've seen that depict children predicting the future or having supernatural powers or powers similar those from Bewitched. I think theres a fine line here. My kids do understand reality vs fiction, and because of that I do allow Harry Potter, Percy Jackson, etc... BUT I also see alot of desensitization when it comes to things that are occult(ish) and have learned that by having discussions with my kids on why these things are wrong, it can help them understand and be able to explain their own beliefs.

Is there such thing as a "good witch" and a "bad witch"? my opinion, no. Its all bad. However, I won't judge someone. And they would say the difference is in their works, whether it be good or evil.

Do you think Christians should participate in a holiday that glamorizes fear and death as a means of entertainment or watch tv/movies or read books that make what use to be the ugly bad guy....now a very sensual, alluring and "good" but misunderstood character? It depends how its celebrated. We focus on having fun, giving to others, and that the next day is All Saints Day. I was raised celebrating Halloween as either a celebration of a Harvest, or celebrating it as All Saints Eve so its always been this way in my experience.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
November 2nd, 2012, 04:23 PM
mamaginger's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,305
I'm going to answer my own questions before I post the verses.....

Do you believe these people have powers and if so, from whom? (God/Satan/something else)Yes, powers from Satan although they probably would never attribute it to him or realize that they have been deceived and are being used by him.

When a medium seems to contact a dead relative or know true facts about them, how is this possible? Or do you think it's all coincidence/manipulation? I agree that some of it is vague and people are just desperate to believe anything but some is very specific and could not be known by the medium. In these cases, I believe Satan is using familiar spirits to communicate knowledge about the deceased. I do NOT believe in any way at all that a medium has ever truly communicated with the spirit of a dead person. I will give verses to prove this later.

Do you believe in ghosts? If so, what are they? (dead spirits of the once living/demons/angels/something else) I believe in demons and angels. I believe what people see as a ghost of a dead relative or someone they know or don't know is a demon. I believe these are "familiar spirits" (demons) who deceive the person who sees them into believing they are the "ghost" of a real person. They may be nasty, mean and ugly or they may portray themselves as kind, gentle, attractive "ghosts." Either way, it is deception from Satan to serve his purposes.

Do you know what a familiar spirit is? Yes...haha

Do you think it's ok to play games that involve Ouija boards, 8 balls, tarot cards or other similar cards, etc? Not at all. It is a doorway to a real spirit world that is more than happy to communicate back with you and draw you in (and away from God).

Is it ok to read horoscopes? Do you believe in horoscopes and reading signs from the stars? Absolutely not. Even fortune cookies are an attempt at foretelling the future. I'm not saying I don't read them but I know them for what they are....lies and silliness.

Do you think that the scary movies/tv shows, costumes, haunted houses and other things meant to bring fear "for fun" or things that remind us of death are just "all in good fun" for the Halloween season or do you think there is something darker behind all of it? I do think there is a negative spiritual aspect to the "holiday" just by default since it does glorify fear and death. I do like the "innocent" celebration of Halloween though.

Do you think there is an agenda specifically against our children to desensitize them and make them curious/intrigued by things that have always represented the occult? To this question I would just like to add a few movies/shows/commercials off the top of my head: Harry Potter, Twilight, Wizards of Waverly Place, My Babysitter's a Vampire, Vampire Diaries, Bratzillas (dolls that look like witches), Paranorman, and many other commercials I've seen that depict children predicting the future or having supernatural powers or powers similar those from Bewitched. I believe that there IS an agenda. Maybe some media don't purposely and knowingly have an agenda but I believe some do. The majority of Hollywood is NOT Christian at all and even hates Christians. I think they are willing to do anything to lure the next generation away from God and Christian values. There's most DEFINITELY a very purposeful agenda to promote homosexuality and make our kids sympathetic to the plight of the homosexual. Shows like Glee just completely rub it in your face. They will have you loving the characters, feeling sorry for them and even rooting for them to get together. (I know from experience....I had to quit watching it). Now before anybody jumps through the screen at me.....I LOVE gay people and when my child is old enough to have the discussion he will be taught to love them and NEVER to pick on them or taunt them in any way. I've had very loving and respectful conversations with gay/bisexual friends. Me believing that it is wrong has nothing to do with my treatment or love of them. Ok....off that topic now! I also believe that Hollywood is influenced by demonic things whether they are consciously aware of it or not. Satan certainly has an agenda against all of us and he will use whatever vessel is willing or able to be deceived.....he even uses christians sometimes.

Is there such thing as a "good witch" and a "bad witch"? Absolutely not. Both are influenced by the same Satan whether they believe/realize it or not. Sometimes I think the pretty, sweet witch may be even more dangerous because we are so willing to be deceived by her.

Do you think Christians should participate in a holiday that glamorizes fear and death as a means of entertainment or watch tv/movies or read books that make what use to be the ugly bad guy....now a very sensual, alluring and "good" but misunderstood character? *sigh*.....as a human being...I struggle with this. The obvious answer should be NO. However, like I said earlier, I LOVE Twilight and it definitely plays on the whole beautiful, alluring "bad guys" who are really the "good guys." Vampirism is glorified. There's "good vampires" and "bad vampires." There's the very lovable and favorite "Alice" who sees the future. And Edward.....ahhhh, Edward.... How can you not love Edward? lol He can read people's thoughts and has supernatural powers. Again, this absolutely has zero influence on my faith or beliefs. I know that it is all pretend and doesn't draw me over to the dark side in any way. haha I don't know if the same can be said for the teens and younger kids who watch/read it. Same goes for Harry Potter and all the rest...though I haven't personally read/watched any Harry Potter. There's also always a little voice in the back of my mind that tells me I could be reading something useful to myself or society...like say, the Bible for instance! Lol instead of something like Twilight. I once heard a preacher say "Entertainment is the devil's substitute for joy." That has always echoed in my mind since I heard it. I don't believe or think that preacher believed ANY form of entertainment was "satanic" in anyway. However, I understood that he was saying ....as a society we may seek happiness through entertainment rather than finding true joy in God. We spend hours watching tv, reading novels, playing on the internet, going to ballgames, going on vacation after vacation, etc. Again...nothing "wrong" with any of this as long as its not our "source" of joy and we are depressed unless we're doing one of the above or other. I hope everybody gets what I mean. This is also the main "sin" in trying to seek comfort from a psychic, medium, horoscope, etc.....you are seeking something OTHER than the God who created you for comfort, peace and assurance. We are to seek GOD and God alone. <-----This is the KEY to all of it.
__________________
~ Ginger



For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb...I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made...My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together...Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. Psalm 139: 13-16

Reply With Quote
  #9  
November 9th, 2012, 06:58 AM
Countrymom4's Avatar Chrystal
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 3,576
That is great Ginger, I have been trying to work throught the verses you gave
__________________



Reply With Quote
  #10  
November 21st, 2012, 09:03 PM
mamaginger's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,305
Bump for new people,.....and to remind me to finish this thread!!!
__________________
~ Ginger



For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb...I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made...My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together...Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. Psalm 139: 13-16

Reply With Quote
  #11  
November 22nd, 2012, 11:07 PM
Super Mommy
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 584
Do you believe these people have powers and if so, from whom? (God/Satan/something else)
I believe God allows certain people to be able to see certain aspects of the future. I do not believe that prophets died out when the bible was finished being written. I also don't believe that God would only use a religious person to impart his message. However, I think if someone's abilities were divine they wouldn't sell someone a glimpse of their future. As far as psychics go I think some are imbued with ability by God to serve a higher purpose while others are self serving and greedy which could be a gift given by God and twisted by Satan or an ability provided by Satan in order to corrupt, show people what shouldn't be seen and fill others with a sense of power they should not posses.

When a medium seems to contact a dead relative or know true facts about them, how is this possible? Or do you think it's all coincidence/manipulation?
Once again I think it depends on who provides the medium with their abilities. At times I think the person looking for answers may unconciously provide information in which case the medium could use that to manipulate people.

Do you believe in ghosts? If so, what are they? (dead spirits of the once living/demons/angels/something else)
I believe there is something though I am not entirely sure what. Yes, I do believe there is such thing as possession which would be by demons. As far as other ghosts....I really don't know

Do you know what a familiar spirit is?
no

Do you think it's ok to play games that involve Ouija boards, 8 balls, tarot cards or other similar cards, etc?
No, I don't think it is ok. Growing up I was taught it is games with the devil and God would not approve so I never took any sort of interest in it.

Is it ok to read horoscopes? Do you believe in horoscopes and reading signs from the stars?
We look at them and laugh, kinda the same as what we pull out of fortune cookies when we eat chinese food. No, I don't believe in horoscopes or reading the stars.

Do you think that the scary movies/tv shows, costumes, haunted houses and other things meant to bring fear "for fun" or things that remind us of death are just "all in good fun" for the Halloween season or do you think there is something darker behind all of it?
I think there is something darker behind it. When we watch those sorts of movies and immerse ourselves in those environments we are becoming desensitized to fear which is a healthy thing to have. I think it also lends us a false feeling of security. That everything will be ok and so when we are left to face real life situations we are ill equipped. We are also distancing ourselves from reality. Such as when people kill so much in video games that death doesn't seem permanent or like they are untouchable. I think those sorts of movies and types of "fun" foster a sense of being untouchable which is detrimental to successful social relations and life.

Do you think there is an agenda specifically against our children to desensitize them and make them curious/intrigued by things that have always represented the occult? To this question I would just like to add a few movies/shows/commercials off the top of my head: Harry Potter, Twilight, Wizards of Waverly Place, My Babysitter's a Vampire, Vampire Diaries, Bratzillas (dolls that look like witches), Paranorman, and many other commercials I've seen that depict children predicting the future or having supernatural powers or powers similar those from Bewitched.
Yes, I most certainly do. I think our children are under attack more today than any other time in history to accept certain lifestyles, ideas, and ideals that are not supported in the bible, are not morally sound, and are not allowed in my home. My children do watch more tv right now than what I typically like but I make very sure about what they watch. My oldest is 4 so my kids aren't old enough for Harry Potter or anything like that but I don't intend to show it to them. At the same time when my kids are older I do plan to show them some stuff that way it can be discussed. I think if I prevented them from gaining knowledge about certain things or made them seem taboo they would be afraid to ask me about them or they would go into the world and get culture shock. On one hand I want to protect them from it and on the other I want them to be prepared. As they grow it is a fine balance we will have to work to hold.

Is there such thing as a "good witch" and a "bad witch"?
Not really

Do you think Christians should participate in a holiday that glamorizes fear and death as a means of entertainment or watch tv/movies or read books that make what use to be the ugly bad guy....now a very sensual, alluring and "good" but misunderstood character?
No, right now we only go to Fall Festivals put on by local churches. However, this year I learned that the festivals put on by churches is actually closer to the Pagan roots of Halloween than the church roots. As my kids get older I think we will emphasize the church aspect of the holiday rather than the typical. No, I don't think Christians should read/watch those sorts of movies books. There are too many perfectly good Christian options available but the devil is cunning and is going to use glamour and sex to lure people away as much as possible.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
November 23rd, 2012, 10:19 AM
lupti's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dallas, TX area
Posts: 3,896
Do you believe these people have powers and if so, from whom? (God/Satan/something else)

Yes. I think it is a gift that can be granted from God, but because of the potential of God activating that gift for His purpose, I think it can manipulated. I think people with the propensity for God given prophecy can be easily deceived without even realizing it.

When a medium seems to contact a dead relative or know true facts about them, how is this possible? Or do you think it's all coincidence/manipulation? Both. I used to demonstrate this by 'reading' palms of people. It is very easy to get one generic thing or quality and open up the door for the person to lead you to the answers they want to hear. I also think some people's sensitivity can be genuine-but if they are using it for their own gain or for a purpose not specifically given by God, it becomes unclear

Do you believe in ghosts? If so, what are they? (dead spirits of the once living/demons/angels/something else) Yes. Matter cannot be created or destroyed, so I think some ghosts are leftover vibrations-especially in traumatic circumstances. Like a movie playing over and over. I think it can be demonic, I also think it can just be spirits-though I don't profess to know what they are

Do you know what a familiar spirit is?yup

Do you think it's ok to play games that involve Ouija boards, 8 balls, tarot cards or other similar cards, etc?I used to. My mom wigged out over Ouija boards, but I had all sorts of tarot and oracle cards, etc. As I embraced God, His response when I posed a similar questions was "Why wouldn't you ask ME first?" Then I realized that by not asking God, by not seeking answers through Him, I was being led astray from his path. (subtlety)

Is it ok to read horoscopes? Do you believe in horoscopes and reading signs from the stars?Meh. I don't believe in them and get annoyed with their generality. While it can be a good teaching tool for the illusion of harmlessness, I don't pay them much mind.

Do you think that the scary movies/tv shows, costumes, haunted houses and other things meant to bring fear "for fun" or things that remind us of death are just "all in good fun" for the Halloween season or do you think there is something darker behind all of it? We all have things we fear. Sometimes getting it written or in visual form helps take away some of that 'power of fear' so to speak. Like anything, it can be a silly release or something darker. There is some darkness lying in it, otherwise it wouldn't exist.

Do you think there is an agenda specifically against our children to desensitize them and make them curious/intrigued by things that have always represented the occult? To this question I would just like to add a few movies/shows/commercials off the top of my head: Harry Potter, Twilight, Wizards of Waverly Place, My Babysitter's a Vampire, Vampire Diaries, Bratzillas (dolls that look like witches), Paranorman, and many other commercials I've seen that depict children predicting the future or having supernatural powers or powers similar those from Bewitched.IDK. An entire generation grew up with Bewitched with no issues. I just think there is MORE now, and it is our responsibility as parents to teach real from fiction and God's will from being led astray. Anyone who teaches Santa can be accused of desensitizing their kid to magic, KWIM? (for argument's sake, don't be offended)

Is there such thing as a "good witch" and a "bad witch"?
No. Most practitioners will tell you it is all shades of grey

Do you think Christians should participate in a holiday that glamorizes fear and death as a means of entertainment or watch tv/movies or read books that make what use to be the ugly bad guy....now a very sensual, alluring and "good" but misunderstood character?Tricky. I love Halloween. I love the costumes, the pumpkins, the smell of fall. I love a good scary movie (even if I won't sleep for a week). We went to the fall festival at our church, which other than costumes and candy had very little to do with Halloween. The kids played games, bounced, and rode ponies and I didn't have to go begging at houses for candy
Like anything in the written word, you have to be careful, but the uproar over Harry Potter still gets on my every last nerve. The series is a well written hero's journey and specifically is good triumphing over evil. The Lord of the Rings Trilogy is overwhelming in its Christian parallels, but has good magic and demons. The Narnia series as well. I think it matters what you and your kids talk about if they read these books.

ETA: forgot a question!
__________________




Heather
BFP March 2, 12 dpo
Elias Scott and Griffin Karl here on 9/19/09!

Last edited by lupti; November 23rd, 2012 at 10:23 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
November 27th, 2012, 07:22 PM
mamaginger's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,305
1 John 4 talks about "testing the spirits". This is key in deciding whether something is of God or of Satan. I understand that many spiritualists will claim their gift is from God but if they do not acknowledge and give honor to JESUS then they are not of God.

Here's what 1 John 4 says:

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not of God. This is the spirit of antichrist...they are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error."

Ezekiel 13: 3 says "Woe to the foolish prophets who follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing! vs 6: "They have seen false visions and lying divinations. They say, 'Declares the Lord,' when the Lord has not sent them, and yet they expect him to fulfill their word. Have you not seen a false vision and uttered a lying divination, whenever you have said, 'Declares the Lord,' although I have not spoken?"

Leviticus 20: 6 says "If a person turns to mediums and necromancers, whoring after them, I will set my face against that person..."

Deuteronomy 18: 10 says "There shall not be found among you....anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord."

What makes all of it so sinful? (aside from the fact that it comes from demonic forces of course) Isaiah has the answer:

Isaiah 8: 19 "And when they say to you, 'Inquire of the mediums and the necromancers who chirp and mutter, ' should not a people inquire of their God?" <----that's it right there. People will turn to everything but God for answers. Many of them would even say they believe in God but they will turn to a psychic or medium for comfort about their future or reassurance about their dead loved ones. We are to turn to God and His Word ONLY.
__________________
~ Ginger



For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb...I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made...My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together...Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. Psalm 139: 13-16

Reply With Quote
  #14  
November 27th, 2012, 07:27 PM
mamaginger's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,305
One of our pastors did a lesson on this subject a few weeks ago. He quoted the verse from Isaiah about "necromancers who chirp and mutter." Apparently the original Hebrew/Greek words for chirp and mutter had something to do with a ventriloquist. What he said was that the person who is supposedly communicating with the dead is actually being used like a puppet in a ventriloquists lap.....the ventriloquist being a demon. The person mutters and moves their mouth but it is the demon speaking. Creepy!!!!!
__________________
~ Ginger



For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb...I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made...My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together...Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. Psalm 139: 13-16

Reply With Quote
  #15  
November 27th, 2012, 07:41 PM
mamaginger's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,305
In reference to spirits being "stuck" in limbo....

2 Corinthians 5:8 says "We would rather be AWAY from the body and at home with the Lord."

The second before Jesus took his final breath he said "Father, into your hands, I commit my spirit." When Stephen was being stoned to death he said "Father receive my spirit." When the thief hanging on the cross beside Jesus asked to be remembered when jesus came into his kingdom, Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, TODAY you will be with me in Paradise." These verses tell me that at the moment of death, our spirit goes to God.

The only place I can think of in the Bible that actually TELLS us about someone going to Hell was when the "rich man" dies in Luke 16. Verse 22 says "The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes...." So all in one sentence, he was buried and then immediately is in torment in Hell.

I don't believe there are any souls of the dead anywhere except Heaven or Hell. The spirits we may hear or see are demonic. They may be nice and they may be mean, but either way is for the purpose of deception. They can make themselves appear to look and act like a dead loved one because they are familiar enough with them to do this. The Bible says Satan himself can disguise himself as an angel of light. Lets not be fooled by him.
__________________
~ Ginger



For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb...I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made...My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together...Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. Psalm 139: 13-16

Reply With Quote
  #16  
November 29th, 2012, 07:02 PM
lupti's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dallas, TX area
Posts: 3,896
We have to be careful about equating the word Hades with the place modern day Christianity refers to as 'Hell'.

Hades has a greek origin which is simply underworld or abode of the dead. It may have been an attempt to translate the words Sheol or Gehenna(more the hell of final judgement). As I understand it (I could be wrong here) in Judaism, Souls spend up to year in Gehenna and then are either taken to Heaven or for the wicked they are annhilated or punished further.(I think there is debate on that)

With that in mind, Hades is an abode of the dead...could be restless spirits, spirits who have not accepted God, or those who have done evil-any waiting on the final judgement. Their torment is the separation from God up until the final judgement. The Book of Revelations mentions a lake of fire for the ****** at the final judgement-but that is the final judgement.

Also, I agree that people should ask if visions come from God or elsewhere, but God most certainly grants visions to nonbelievers. King Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel had dreams of the future that were sent to him by God. God granted only Daniel the wisdom to interpret it.

So, if God grants nonbelievers visions- how do we as believers help our nonbeliever brothers and sisters to seek His wisdom with their visions and not the wisdom of the human world?
__________________




Heather
BFP March 2, 12 dpo
Elias Scott and Griffin Karl here on 9/19/09!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
November 30th, 2012, 06:02 AM
lupti's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dallas, TX area
Posts: 3,896
In order to sound a little more coherent-

What I was attempting to get at is that we have a modern western view of what "hell" is versus the culture of the age of Jesus. We have lost the understanding of the jewish culture at the time, its language, and how that can add depth and meaning of the bible.
__________________




Heather
BFP March 2, 12 dpo
Elias Scott and Griffin Karl here on 9/19/09!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
November 30th, 2012, 01:53 PM
mamaginger's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,305
I don't know, I think that may be overcomplicating Hell. No matter what word is used, we know there is a place of torment for souls who are lost. I know the Bible teaches that it is literally in the center of the earth and is a place of darkness, fire and torment. There is a bottomless pit. There is a place called Tartarus within it (for fallen angels) and a place called Paradise where the saved souls use to go before Christ. It is empty now. There is a lake of fire. But again, we can call it whatever we want. The Bible is still talking about the same place. The Greeks may have named it one thing, the Jews another, Americans another but it's all the same. Maybe we can do a whole separate Bible study on Hell. There seems to be a lot of confusion about it. I'm not an expert by any means so it would be good for me to research it.

I'll have to look up what you mentioned about Nebuchadnezzar. I know the story but ill have to go a little deeper to address your point. Thanks for the comments/questions!
__________________
~ Ginger



For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb...I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made...My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together...Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. Psalm 139: 13-16

Reply With Quote
Reply

Topic Tools Search this Topic
Search this Topic:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:44 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0