[harvestgal]

Hi Ladies,

Let me first introduce myself since I don't write on this board much. My husband and I have been missionaries in Turkey (3 years) and China (2 years)and we've just recently come back to the States, 2 months ago. I have a son who is 2 and a daughter who is 7 months. We'll be in the States for about 3 years so my husband, who is from Nigeria, can get his US citizenship. I think it will make it easier for us as we travel as missionaries if we both have American Passports.

Anyway, i don't want to get into all that. We've been married 3 happy years and my husband is a wonderful, loving and Godly man. I am such a blessed and I mean, really blessed Woman to have him. I know this and everyone always tells me this.

Now a little about me. I hate the word submit. I always have. Before I met him, I said, I'd never get married, I'd just live as a single woman all my life so that I could serve God wholeheartedly as a missionary, with no distractions.

But after 2 years of being a missionary in Turkey, I met him. He was a missionary there from Nigeria, with a radical heart for sharing Christ with the muslims. We met, fell in love and got married. I said good bye to my theory of never marrying. Another reason I had that theory though was because I said, I could never submit myself to a man and have him boss me around.

I felt my Dad did enough of that to me and I wanted to be free. Free like a bird. Free to be me. Free to make whatever decisions I wanted and answer to nobody. Free to be happy. Just plain free.

Well so I married this wonderful man. And he still is a wonderful man, but now, I have a hard time submitting.

I feel and I really believe that some of the things I want for us are right. Ok so he had some decisions to make. He was offered 2 jobs. He chose the one I didn't like, with the schedule I didn't like, because it paid more and he liked the work on that job better. He never gave the other job a chance. Well, he's been working this job about a month now.

We had prayed and talked about it before he took it. Usually we always work out an agreement. We never do something when the other person is not in agreement. Well, right now we are living with my parents and we both really want our own place so we do need money. And he's the one that will work the job so he wanted to do something he knew he could do, but he still never gave the other job a chance. So finally since we couldn't come to an agreement. He said, as the man, he is the head and he'll just make this decision and I'll have to trust him and accept it, since he's the head.

Yuk. Well, now the job is requiring all this overtime. Just like I knew it would so I didn't want him to take it. He works 12 hours a day and I stuck home with the kids all to myself. He works night shift so when he comes home he wants to sleep. Then he wakes and goes to work. Lately he cut his sleep to like 3 to 4 hours a day since he knew I wasn't happy about him not having much time with me and the kids.

But what happens after a couple weeks of not getting enough sleep. Well... you start getting kind of grouchy. So now, I should be the happy stay home wife. But I still think I knew what was best for us as a family. He should have chosen the other job. It had a normal 8 hour a day schedule and benefits. He went and chose this stupid job and now is always tired and missing church on wed and thurs nights which we always went to together. And seems he's not as spiritual as he use to be either.

So when a woman knows what's best for her man and family. Why do they use their authority to make stupid decisions then say they are in leadership so altimately the decision they make goes. And is it fair for women to have to submit to wrong decisions when the man makes a wrong decision. Why couldn't God put the woman in leadership. I mean her unctions are usually always right. She usually makes the best decisions for the family.

So I'm still angry every time I see him tired or he misses an important church event or he's not spending as much time with family or he comes home and tellse me that on his day off he has mandatory overtime. I'm beginning to hate his job more and more and resent his choice. I know he wants what's best for us, but I've always told him money is not important to me. So, i'm frustrated and finding it really hard to submit to him. And if he'll make a stupid decision like this job over money then what stupid decisions might he make in the future. Sorry, I'm writing as an angry, unsubmitted wife and yes, I know I aint right. I'm in sin, but it don't stop my anger.

Do any of you other wives find it hard to submit to your husbands. Don't get me wrong, my husband is a sweetheart. Really and he tries to please me and his kids. He spends time in his word everyday and in prayer and seeks God to make the right decissions. But I guess he misses God sometimes. And now he's so moody cause he's not getting sleep trying to please me and spend time with family, when all he really had to do was take the other job offer. It's like dah.

Anyway, I still think he made a dumb decision and heck, I'm praying that God takes that job from him some how. I know before I went on another board requesting prayer that my husband gets a job, but I should have prayed that he gets the right job.

So anyway, I'm just rambling and venting, but I got some questions. I'd like answers. Godly, Biblical answers.

1. Why did God make it so that the husband is in leadership in the home? Why not the woman?
2. What does a woman do when she strongly believes that her husband is making the wrong decision for the family and he won't listen to her reasoning?
3. How does an unsubmissive woman get over her disagreement with her husband when he makes a wrong decision and says he prayed and he feels this is what God is leading him to do? How does she get over her anger too?
4. How can she be supportive to her husband even when she disagrees with him and he's suffering from his own mistake she told him not to make.
5, How does a very independant and strong minded woman, who was forced to submit as a child to her father against her will. Learn how to be a submissive and honorable wife and mother?

There! I feel better now that I got that out. I'm glad none of you know me. Here, where I live, I always must be miss spiritual, who's always on top and encouraging and ministering to others. But you know what? I need ministry myself. Yea, missionaries often need lots of prayer and ministry and encouragement support. So anyway. I hope someone out there can answer some of these questions. Sorry for rambling.

blessings

[Mattiez]

Hi Ladies and Harvestgal

I haven't been around in a LONG time. I have gone back to school to get my masters and have been rather busy. But when I read the post it was such a cry from the heart I just had to respond in some fashion.
Welcome to the board I am glad you found you way here. And yes anaminity can be a good thing.
I have to say I am right there with you on most of your questions. I struggle with most the same issues.

Maybe I can add a little insite on why it is such a hot button for you. I see that you lived and worked in Turkey for a couple year. I lived in Bahrain for a couple years. Although of the muslim countries it is some of the most demecratic but women are still considered and treated as second class citizens. Property of or "taken care of" by their male counter parts. Husbands, father, brother. We have seen it, we have lived it. And I am sure completely not understood it.

I have to add that I have quite a heart for the muslim people (espically women) too.

Now we get back to the States. Where the law gives all people equal rights under the law. Kind of like a promised land. Then the bible turns around and says Submit to your husband. What! Didn't we just get away from that?
And lets be realistic. Men don't have any more direct line to God than women do. And sometimes (most of the time ) a lot less senitivity to the leading of the spirit than women in general have. So why in the heck is it that way.
I don't know. I know all about Adam and Eve and God driving them out of the garden and causing woment to submit to man but what practical purpose does it have today. Is God still punishing us for something that Eve did? No. I can't accept that. Even if that was the case. Jesus broke all bonds and condemnation on the cross. That is gone and taken care of once and for all. We are set free from the wages of sin and death.

I really feel that men give that "I'm that man" reason when they feel at a loss, confused or frustrated and don't really have any other answer to give or know what to do.

Husbands and wives are designed to become one. In all ways. What you do to him you do to yourself and what you do against him you do against yourself. If am arm is broken it is not for the other arm to tear it off and throw it away. but to take up the slack for it until it is healed. Because it might need the same thing some day.

To go along with this men are instructed to love their wives as them selves. And if we are honest with ourselves that is a whole lot of love. Very few people do things that are knowingly detramental to themselve.

Is it possible that he is feeling a lot of stress because yall are living with your parents. I know that would put a WHOLE lot of stress on me if I lived with hubbys parents.

How do you deal with it? Pray a lot. Ask God to show you why hubby made the decision that he made. So that you can understand where he is coming from . Things are easyier to take if you at least understand why.
Also ask God what you can do in this situation to help it turn around and become more positive.

Having 2 little ones and being tired all the time and in need of help and support it is very easy to become resentful towards hubby when they are not around when we feel they should be. I don't have any words of wisdom on that one. Other than it does get better.

Don't point fingers with a "see I told you" attitude. It never has a good out come.

Probably not the kind of responce that you were looking for.
Maybe some of the others have more insite or answers than I do.

I just talked with my neighbor this afternoon that was also struggling with the same issue. She has been to many countries as missionary including North Korea, Africa and quite a few other. Her heart is turely for Africa. She feels called to go to a certain country in Africa. (I can't even remember which one it is) But very unstable and possibly dangerous. But she will not go without her husbands blessing. He is actually afraid for her life so he will not give his blessing so she will not go until he comes about and gives his blessing. She is very heart broken over this but with patience she just says that it will come about. A Pretty incredible women.
Maybe your strength will be a testimony to other people going through the same thing.

Any way I am done rambling too.
Thanks if you kept up with me this far.
I am not going back and proff reading so sorry if there is a bunch of mistakes in here
God Bless you and grace to handle all things.
Mattiez

[Leigha24]

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I think a lot of times that men make decisions without thinking long term. It sounded good at the time, you know? I think that's why we get so frustrated, we think more long term.

I'll be praying for you!

[Sunshine412]

1. Why did God make it so that the husband is in leadership in the home? Why not the woman?
Ephesians 5:22-33. Not only are women to submit to their husbands, but the husband is to love the wife as Christ loves the church. It's not just a blind submission, and the husband should NOT take advantage of it.

2. What does a woman do when she strongly believes that her husband is making the wrong decision for the family and he won't listen to her reasoning?
I have been there, and I truly believe from experience that the best thing is to let him do it anyways. Here's why I think that: my husband was offered a business partnership. I didn't think he should do it and told him so. He took it anyways. The guy stole thousands and thousands of dollars from the company. We got out of the deal and Nathan started his own business. Nathan now listens very carefully to me and respects my opinions because I have proved that I have good intuition. Also, if I would have thrown a fit and told him not to do it, one of two things would have happened. 1) He would have done what he wanted anyways and we would have just fought about it a bunch which wouldn't have helped any. 2) He would have listened to me but resented not doing what he wanted to do, which would have also caused more problems. In other words, he needed to make that mistake to realize that he should listen to me and value my opinion, so now he thinks about the good of our entire family and what everyone wants instead of just what he wants.

3. How does an unsubmissive woman get over her disagreement with her husband when he makes a wrong decision and says he prayed and he feels this is what God is leading him to do? How does she get over her anger too?
I think I answered most of this in number two. Also, just be patient and pray for patience and pray for help with anger, and pray for the husband to have the wisdom, courage, and humility to do the right thing. Here's a great book about that: http://www.amazon.com/Power-Praying%C2%AE-...4750&sr=1-2

4. How can she be supportive to her husband even when she disagrees with him and he's suffering from his own mistake she told him not to make.
Pray pray pray!!!! Also, refuse to talk bad about him (something I learned the hard way) because that will cause more problems and generally just add fuel to the fire. Now, if things are really bad, there is nothing wrong with having one confidante who you KNOW will not tell other people, but only have one person to talk to, not a big group because that can lead to husband bashing.

5, How does a very independant and strong minded woman, who was forced to submit as a child to her father against her will. Learn how to be a submissive and honorable wife and mother?
Pray pray pray!!! I am exactly like that, very independent and strong minded, also forced to submit to my father against my will, and this was hard for me, but praying and reading my Bible a TON helped so much, plus there's a book that really helped me with it too: http://www.amazon.com/Virtuous-Woman-Shatt...5029&sr=1-1

I hope this helps a little!! And don't give up, just keep praying and keep refraining from nagging and hopefully he will realize that he needs to do something different. Also, maybe this really is where God wants him to be for now, God sees so many things that we can't.

[dinamommy]

I can hear the hurt in your post and can tell that this is something that you are really struggling with right now. God must be dealing with you right now so that you can learn and grow in Him. That is what I got from reading what you wrote, anyways. I just took a class on this very subject a few months ago that was so good and opened my eyes to a lot having to do with submission to my husband as well as respecting him as the head of our household. My husband and I are a team, but he really does need my respect with the decisions that he ultimately has to make. When I fail to give him that, there is definitely strife in our household. Our husbands need to know (in a desperate way, really) that we trust them to make decisions that ultimately fall to them. In their eyes, it is really more important to them that we respect them than it is even that we love them. Men are commanded to love their wives as Christ loved the church and we as women are commanded to respect our husbands. There are two different commands there, but they are there for a reason. Even if your husband did make the wrong decision here, and I'm not saying one way or the other because I obviously don't know that, you really need to trust him to remedy the problem or help him to stick with it if that is what God is leading him to do. I PROMISE you that you will be doubly blessed if you will stand behind your husband in this and trust him to do what is right. Obviously, you are having a hard time doing this yourself. There is a reason for that. God doesn't expect us to do it ourselves, he wants us to turn these things over to Him. Trust me, I have had a very hard time with this in the past and still struggle with it sometimes now, but through lots of prayer and a change in my mind of how I view my husband, it has gotten a whole lot better. Our household is better for it too. My husband feels more secure and therefore, is able to help me feel more secure too. It is a wonderful trade-off that is better for everyone. I feel like my marriage is better now than it has ever been, thanks to God helping me in this area.

I know you said that your father forced this submission to men thing on you when you were a child and that is now why you struggle with it. I think he may have had the wrong idea about what all that means and in turn, you have gotten the wrong idea about what it means for you to submit. God doesn't tell us to do this in order to take our freedom away. In actuality, if we do our part to respect our husbands and they do their part to love us and take care of us in return, we have more freedom. I tell you what, a huge burden has been lifted off of my shoulders since I have decided to do this. I saw the change in my husband almost immediately and the change in our marriage almost as fast. I wish this was something that mothers would spend time teaching their little children about. It is not discussed in the home most of the time and we as women have no idea what submission is all about. Our society teaches us to be "independent women", answer to no one, and need no one in order to be happy. It also teaches us that men are stupid and they need us to guide them along. You will be surprised how NOT stupid your husband is if you will learn to stand behind him and be his helper. They do so much better at running their households if they feel that their wives are supporting them 100%. They just need a little confidence that you won't question their every move.

I'm sorry if my response seems harsh to you, but I just wanted to tell you what I have learned and how it has affected my life. I don't really think you came here looking for any fluff anyways. If you are interested in the study I did, there is a book that is separate from the study called For Women Only by Shaunti Feldhahn that you could order and read on your own. Here is a link to that book. I assure you that it's a wonderful read. http://www.amazon.com/Women-Only-about-Inn...s/dp/1590523172 I really hope your situation gets better soon, and like I said, I totally know where you're coming from.

Hi! I can TOOOOOOTTALLLLLY relate. Boy, have i had a hard time with this issue. Not so much with questioning why, more so with being able to put it into practice consistently. It is HARD! (If you have access to the Hideaway feel free to have a peek at my journal and then you'll see just how MUCH I can relate!)
Anyways there have been some great points made so far...
I think the key to knowing WHY we have to submit is simply remembering that God designed marriage, and He designed it to be a good, functional relationship that meets the needs of both people and models the loving relationship between Christ and His church. So, He must have had REASON to set it up the way that He did....the command for wives to submit to husbands surely must have had a good purpose, just like how everything else He created was deemed "good" before sin stepped in and marred it.
I think the key is to remember that men and women were created DIFFERENTLY. Like dinamommy said, we as women tend to crave LOVE more than anything from our husbands, and men generally crave RESPECT more than anything from their wives. They are wired differently than us. They wnt different things than we do. I think it is interesting to note that God only gave one specific command to husbands and to wives individually. He commanded husbands to LOVE their wives as Christ loved the church, to the point where they would die for her, and he commanded wives to SUBMIT to their husbands in everything. I think this is because not only are those the most important things to remember in the way we relate to each other as they fill each other's most deep and fundamental needs, but also because they are perhaps the most DIFFICULT things for husbands and wives to remember to do for each other. For instance, I find it very easy to LOVE my husband and show him love in the ways that I am familiar with. It is not so easy to consistently show him respect and submission; it does not come as naturally. Same with dh....he knows how to respect me in the ways that men do naturally, but it is harder for him to remember to show me LOVE in the ways that I crave; it does not come as naturally to him.
The thing i have noticed is that when I am being selfless and doing my best to meet HIS needs instead of mine, he naturally starts to respond to mine. Same for him....when he is doing his part and showing love to me even when I don't deserve it, I can't help but reciprocate, out of appreciation and because a closeness just naturally develops. The tough part is when one spouse ISN'T doing their part. I understand you're in a tough spot right now because you stepped back and let your dh make his decision regarding his job, and now it would appear that he made the wrong decision, the decision you wouldnt have made had you been able to make it for him. That is definitely difficult to swallow and let go. However, you don't have much of a choice! Basically, you can stew about it and resent his decision and resent him for not listening to you, or you can choose to let it go, know that what's done is done, and do your best to support him in the situation he now finds himself. Sometimes, we have to just let our husbands be adult men and LEARN these things for themselves...AND sometimes when we THINK we're right...we're NOT!!!!...I know that sounds ridiculous, but sometimes I think we wives forget that...we fall in love with our dh's believing that they are great, strong, capable men, and then often somewhere down the line in marriage, we kind of forget that and get blindsided by their weaknesses and start mothering them...telling them what's best for them, nagging them, pushing them to make certain decisions, etc. Now, of course we have wisdom and insight just as they do, but sometimes if they seem to be feeling led in a different direction than we are, we need to step aside and just LET them do what they feel is right. My dh has told me so many times over the years that he NEEDS to be able to make his own decisions...that yes, he cares what I think and thinks highly of my thoughts and opinions, but that sometimes he needs to make a decision even if it's contrary to what I think, and that it would mean the world to him if I would step aside and NOT WORRY ABOUT it...that he is a man and HE will deal with the fallout from his decisions, whatever that may be. He's just like, let me decide, and if I make a wrong decision, please just stand by me and support me and have my back, and if I screw up and have to deal with some crap as a result, LET ME TAKE CARE OF IT FOR YOU. To me, it has become a matter of trust, not just trust in my dh, but trust in God. If I truly trust in God to take care of us no matter what, I don't need to fret and worry about what my dh might do or decide. Even situations that seem terrible at first can be used for good....we have to remember that there is always a bigger picture that we can't quite see sometimes..maybe the job decision was a real mistake, or maybe there was a purpose behind that choice that you're not aware of yet.....maybe there is a lesson to be learned from what looks like a bad situation right now...you never know. In any event, GOD is ultimately in control. You can't control your husband, and trying to will only cause tension and resentment on his part. He will want to pull away from you...it is emasculating to have a wife who constantly makes it clear that she knows better than you....believe you I know because I did it myself for so long (and still struggle not to at times)! But to have a wife who is steadfast, strong and unconditionally supportive is soooo empowering and encouraging for a man..because remember, God gave him a tremendous responsibility and burden as well. He bears the weight of being the family's primary caregiver and leader on his shoulders. YOUR wellbeing is HIS responsibility in so many ways. That is HUGE...and I think we wives forget that sometimes.
Anyways I just rambled on like crazy, sorry about that, but i just had to respond because I can so completely relate to your post. Two books about this topic that I LOVED were Love and Respect by Emerson Eggerichs (really explains the WHYS very well...loved it and so did dh...it explains the whys and how about respecting your dh and the whys and hows about loving your wife) and Sacred Influence by Gary Thomas. They're both very good IMO.
Anyways take care and good luck! Hang in there! Remember...God has your best interests at heart....know that both you and dh are in His hands and that any mistakes or sins your dh may struggle with are NOT your burden to carry...they are between him and God, and if God is trying to teach Him something maybe you need to let it happen, and simply choose to stand by him in spite of those things!...and God will honour that.