Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

There is a reason parents get frustrated when their child wont sleep without eating and then resort to CIO/CC

Um, I think you just proved my point.

[Hailee&Nevansmommy]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

There is a reason parents get frustrated when their child wont sleep without eating and then resort to CIO/CC

Yeah Ive never fed Nevan to sleep, except when he was a newborn. But that is because he isn't interested in eating as he is going to sleep. Im kinda glad tho, because it isn't a habit for him now. He does have his other lil habits tho.. like using a paci at bedtime, and pulling it out every 5 min!! lol

[Fluga]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

There is a reason parents get frustrated when their child wont sleep without eating and then resort to CIO/CC

Not in this household. I got very sad when I noticed that trying to BF to sleep was getting us nowhere. Sleep has been a disaster in this household for couple of months (I was waiting to see if it was a phase before doing anything) and we just started working with her on a no cry sleeping method to get her to go to sleep by herself.

I would love to feed her to sleep for months to come but she got the idea that laying in bed with me when it is dark and quiet was a cue for her to practice her acrobatics and discover new positions she can twist into without ever letting go of the nipple. Suppose she wanted a quiet place to practice this so no one sees her moves until she has them perfected

Originally Posted by Fluga

Not in this household. I got very sad when I noticed that trying to BF to sleep was getting us nowhere. Sleep has been a disaster in this household for couple of months (I was waiting to see if it was a phase before doing anything) and we just started working with her on a no cry sleeping method to get her to go to sleep by herself.

I would love to feed her to sleep for months to come but she got the idea that laying in bed with me when it is dark and quiet was a cue for her to practice her acrobatics and discover new positions she can twist into without ever letting go of the nipple. Suppose she wanted a quiet place to practice this so no one sees her moves until she has them perfected

I'm not saying that parents shouldn't feed their baby to sleep, I am simply meaning that is what happends in a lot of cases. Mom feeds baby to sleep (bottle or breast) and then gets frustrated when they can't sleep without eating and then resort to CIO/CC.

for me I figured why not skip the sleep/eat battle and nip it in the but while they were young and I could do it without CIO/CC. It also means m girls learned to go to sleep on their own earlier and even put themselve back to sleep at night at times, without needing to eat.

If it works for other mothers though, then I think thats fine for them. I don't think there is a "right" answer.

Originally Posted by Sacred

Um, I think you just proved my point.

How??

[~DaemonMykailasMum~]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

There is a reason parents get frustrated when their child wont sleep without eating and then resort to CIO/CC

I never resorted to CIO and my kids were/are fed to sleep.. My son is 3 and I have never let him CIO.. I lay with him till he falls asleep... then I go to my own bed.. with Mykaila.. If shes full at bed time and didnt fall asleep on the boob, I will rock her and listen to music till she falls asleep There are other ways of getting your child to sleep other than feeding or CIO..

[beck12]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

There is a reason parents get frustrated when their child wont sleep without eating and then resort to CIO/CC

Feeding/Nursing to sleep is NOT why people CIO & you know it. People CIO because they believe it will teach a child to self soothe or sleep without a fuss. It has nothing to do with allowing a child to dose at the breast or bottle. I nursed my Ds to sleep (and on rare occassion still do) and he just outgrew needing it....they ALL do at some point.

CIO is a WHOLE different topic than NTS....lots of people don't NTS & don't CIO (like you) and lots of people do CIO, but it isn't due to feeding to sleep.....

And I do think you proved her point....if people would just NTS there would be no need most of the time for CIO since BM is sleep inducing...it HELPS babies fall asleep. Now as toddlers or older babies go, you will find a few that can find that stimulating right before bed (not sure why)...but overall it helps with falling asleep for most babies.

I'm not saying feeding to sleep can't work for some families. If it works for you, all the power too you.

I have seen and heard time and again in different veriations.. "my baby has always fallen asleeping, now they wont stop so we need to do CIO/CC to stop it.." Not always in those words, but extreamly common.

[lisa74]

I agree with Beckie. I know a LOT of people who CIO and none of them do it to "break" the supposedly bad habit of "eating" to sleep, which kind of makes it sound like you are giving the kid a dozen cookies and they eat until they fall asleep in a mountain of crumbs or something.

I wonder when it is that we decided that babies have to behave like mini adults right out of the womb... when we decided that they have to self-soothe and put themselves to sleep and not bother us during the night and be "independent" (as if the fact that a baby needs their parent at night means that they will go away to college still needing their parent at night). I suspect around the time formula feeding became the norm was when this "detachment" from our natural instincts started happening (as a society I mean, I am not saying that every mother who formula feeds cannot be attached to her baby, but it does seem to take work and a lot of going against the mainstream nowadays regardless of how you feed). Basically it turned something that was normal and natural (a mother raising her child) into a science experiment that required scientifically engineered food, and doctors to tell you how to make your kid sleep and how to make your kid not need you and how to make your kid grow up as quickly as possible. I just find it interesting and wonder how kids ever slept without sleep training techniques and experts writing books to tell them how to do it...?

[beck12]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

I'm not saying feeding to sleep can't work for some families. If it works for you, all the power too you.

I have seen and heard time and again in different veriations.. "my baby has always fallen asleeping, now they wont stop so we need to do CIO/CC to stop it.." Not always in those words, but extreamly common.

But again - that is a parenting theory or outside influences that cause that....NOT NTS. I have yet to EVER meet a child that when ALLOWED to doesn't outgrow NTS...so therefor CIO is NOT caused by NTS & the vast majority of people I have known who use/used CIO didn't have a NTS problem in teh first place...they just didn't want to have to get up anymore at night or they were convinced it was better for the baby/child. I am not trying to get into the merits of CIO/no CIO...I simply find a huge flaw in your argument that NTS actually CAUSES CIO.... IF that were the case then there would be no need for the AP board...since the VAST majority of moms there NTS and none CIO.....

I have never had anyone tell me that they CIO'd because of the scenario you mention.

[beck12]

Originally Posted by lisa74

I agree with Beckie. I know a LOT of people who CIO and none of them do it to "break" the supposedly bad habit of "eating" to sleep, which kind of makes it sound like you are giving the kid a dozen cookies and they eat until they fall asleep in a mountain of crumbs or something.

I wonder when it is that we decided that babies have to behave like mini adults right out of the womb... when we decided that they have to self-soothe and put themselves to sleep and not bother us during the night and be "independent" (as if the fact that a baby needs their parent at night means that they will go away to college still needing their parent at night). I suspect around the time formula feeding became the norm was when this "detachment" from our natural instincts started happening (as a society I mean, I am not saying that every mother who formula feeds cannot be attached to her baby, but it does seem to take work and a lot of going against the mainstream nowadays regardless of how you feed). Basically it turned something that was normal and natural (a mother raising her child) into a science experiment that required scientifically engineered food, and doctors to tell you how to make your kid sleep and how to make your kid not need you and how to make your kid grow up as quickly as possible. I just find it interesting and wonder how kids ever slept without sleep training techniques and experts writing books to tell them how to do it...?

It seems like from what I am told & have read that it really was the whole movement towards women working outside the home that shifted the paradigm.... I am NOT saying that women working is a bad thing, far from it, I work. But I think there was a lot of good intentions gone awry....and motherhood became something you managed & maybe out of necessity. If women were going to be more accepted & try to level the playing field, there were lots of sacrifices made, some were made by the babies & children ....so you get into wanting children to fit into a mold so that life is more manageable...like sleeping when you need them to sleep, eating when you need them to eat, etc...and it was all well supported by Dr's & other pop icons of the era & women were told this was good for their children as well. Many still spread this idea...I was told this kind of stuff over & over when Ds was a baby. At his 2 months appt the Dr told me I should not be feeding him any more often than 3-4 hrs, even though it was clear he wanted to nurse every 1-2 hrs...and she told me I shouldn't be feeding him so often, it's too hard on me.

I MUCH prefer the idea that you can be a working mom (like me) and still parent in a way that is natural to you & nurturing & allows a child to move at their own pace. Don't get me wrong, I get TONS of pressure about how I parent. I can't tell you how long everyone seemed obsessed with whether my Ds was STTN, why wasn't he STTN, well I certainly "must" get him out of my bed...blah, blah, blah....especially at work. Oh & don't get me started with the comments on how he will be coming home at Christmas break from college to nurse. And because I am nursing & cosleeping, if I said ANYTHING about being tired, I would just get bombarded with unwanted CIO advice & how it was basically "my fault" that Ds wasn't STTN....I just mostly quit talking to people (especially at work) about ANYTHING to do with me or my life, seriously. It's sad, but I am so sick of everyone thinking they need to "fix" what I absolutely do NOT feel is broken. I am quite happy with our family & the way we work.

I think you guys are missing my point and are to determined to "prove me wrong" I step aside, its not worth it.

[beck12]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

I think you guys are missing my point and are to determined to "prove me wrong" I step aside, its not worth it.

I am not determined to prove anything Kimberly - you made an assertion that NTS (or bottle to sleep) sets up what many parent's feel is a "bad habit" that they have to break later by using CIO. I am saying that isn't true, some parents may feel that is the only way, but feeling it's your only option & having that be the only option isn't the same thing. Parents who use CIO, are parents who use CIO. If it wasn't NTS or bottle, it would be something else that would cause them to use CIO because some kids will NEVER fall asleep on their own without CIO...not as little ones anyway...so bottle/breast, etc...is irrelevant & for those parents they have to decide if they are going to do CIO or not. I may be missing your point...I didn't think so, but the reality is that you cannot introduce a connection between NTS & not support it....

[Fluga]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

I'm not saying that parents shouldn't feed their baby to sleep, I am simply meaning that is what happends in a lot of cases. Mom feeds baby to sleep (bottle or breast) and then gets frustrated when they can't sleep without eating and then resort to CIO/CC.

I think that stems from an unreasonable demands we seem to have on infants. In my opinion the fact that infants fall asleep so nicely right after eating is not just a coincidence. But... this is just my opinion.

I felt that you originally brought the issue up like a blanket statement. That NTS would only lead to feeling out of control. It made me defensive so I may have lashed back harshly. I really cherish the memories I have of my girl slowly drifting off to sleep right next to me. Cheesy as it may sound I would look at her and go all aww and many a time.

[Mom4Life_11]

Unfortunately I could not BF but my son still has a bottle to fall asleep with which in my opinion is no different then allowing your child to fall asleep with a nipple in his/her mouth.

[Lilmom]

I used to give Ivy a bottle in her crib at bed time, but I held the bottle and took it away after she was done. The reason I did it that was is because by the time she was 6 months old she weighed 24lbs and I couldn't reasonably transfer her into the crib after giving her that last bottle with out jostling her around a ton and making her "wakey". But I never left it in the crib. Now she gets a sippy cup with milk when she goes to bed but she does not fall asleep with it in her mouth. She drinks it, rolls over, and then falls asleep on top of it. I retrieve it after about 15 minutes so it doesn't get yucky. I brush ehr teeth before the milk and when she gets up in the morning. So far, her teeth are fine.

[rachna]

Originally Posted by beck12

But again - that is a parenting theory or outside influences that cause that....NOT NTS. I have yet to EVER meet a child that when ALLOWED to doesn't outgrow NTS...so therefor CIO is NOT caused by NTS & the vast majority of people I have known who use/used CIO didn't have a NTS problem in teh first place...they just didn't want to have to get up anymore at night or they were convinced it was better for the baby/child. I am not trying to get into the merits of CIO/no CIO...I simply find a huge flaw in your argument that NTS actually CAUSES CIO.... IF that were the case then there would be no need for the AP board...since the VAST majority of moms there NTS and none CIO.....

I have never had anyone tell me that they CIO'd because of the scenario you mention.

Funny you should say this, just today I was talking to a woman who is not really a friend because I cannot stand her, but she is due in November, and she was telling me how she will not feed her baby to sleep because if she does she will have to use CIO like she did with her older son. Sounds like what Kim is talking about to me. The ONLY reason she does not want to feed to sleep is so she does not have to use CIO.

That being said personal experience does not equal truth. Some people would do good realizing that and stop generalizing based on their own limited experiences

[Lilmom]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

I'm not saying feeding to sleep can't work for some families. If it works for you, all the power too you.

I have seen and heard time and again in different veriations.. "my baby has always fallen asleeping, now they wont stop so we need to do CIO/CC to stop it.." Not always in those words, but extreamly common.

I guess I don't see the problem with nts or the need to cio. Yeah Ivy still needs some milk to get to sleep at night, but she only 2. So what. My guess is that suddenly taking it away and letting her cio would be more... traumatic in the long run for her than just letting her keep doing it. When she was one we tried just taking away the bedtime bottle because the ped told us to. Well, yeah she eventually went to sleep (after a few nights she even got used to it and only cried for a few minutes)but she got very greedy, needy and grabby. Cranky. She changed and I knew why so I gave it back. I got back my calm laid back little girl, I won't do that again... My guess is that by the time shes 18 and heading off to college she won't need to have a sippy cup with milk in it to help her sleep. Sooo I'm not concerned. We all have comfort habits, even adults. I wouldn't like it if someone came along and took my chocolate away...

[beck12]

Originally Posted by rachna

Funny you should say this, just today I was talking to a woman who is not really a friend because I cannot stand her, but she is due in November, and she was telling me how she will not feed her baby to sleep because if she does she will have to use CIO like she did with her older son. Sounds like what Kim is talking about to me. The ONLY reason she does not want to feed to sleep is so she does not have to use CIO.

That being said personal experience does not equal truth. Some people would do good realizing that and stop generalizing based on their own limited experiences

That maybe true, but I am betting for this lady that if her baby cries when it is NOT being fed to sleep she will STILL use CIO....that was my only point. People who use CIO use CIO & nothing "causes" them to "have" to....they decide it is the answer for whatever personal reasons. Just because you choose not to NTS (or bottle to sleep) doesn't mean a baby will go to sleep without crying....

[~DaemonMykailasMum~]

Originally Posted by ~MyLilFamily~

Unfortunately I could not BF but my son still has a bottle to fall asleep with which in my opinion is no different then allowing your child to fall asleep with a nipple in his/her mouth.

Totally.. I agree.. I breastfeed, but I completely agree that I dont see it as being different then a baba... My son bottle fed after 6 mths.. and would have a bedtime baba as well

Originally Posted by beck12

That maybe true, but I am betting for this lady that if her baby cries when it is NOT being fed to sleep she will STILL use CIO....that was my only point. People who use CIO use CIO & nothing "causes" them to "have" to....they decide it is the answer for whatever personal reasons. Just because you choose not to NTS (or bottle to sleep) doesn't mean a baby will go to sleep without crying....

Thats not really true either

I can't count the number of times I've heard mothers say that "I didn't want to use CIO untill.... such and such reason.. (most often linked with feeding to sleep)

Just because you wouldn't use CIO for that reason, doens't mean others don't resort to that. Especially when doctors and many "experts" will tell them "just let them CIO they'll learn to go to sleep without it"