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  #21  
August 20th, 2009, 09:57 PM
Mega Super Mommy
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To be honest with you, I don't care.

I buy Similac, Olivia drinks it, shes healthy, we're happy. End of story!

Thanks for the info though Jillian, it is something I didn't know before, but I can't say I'm shocked...
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Last edited by Sparkleszzz; August 20th, 2009 at 09:59 PM.
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  #22  
August 20th, 2009, 09:59 PM
MissTorrieIfYou'reNasty's Avatar Co-Host of Heated Debates
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Should I feel guilty when I buy 20$ caviar, because I could have bought hot dogs and Wonderbread, and donated the extra money to African babies?

Should I feel guilty because I put my money in a bank, and they gave out unsupportable mortgages under shady terms to uneducated people?

Should I feel guilty when I go out to eat at a restaurant, where they throw out food instead of feeding the homeless?

According to ResponsibleShopper.org, I am supposed to be boycotting Target, Wal-Mart, Chrysler, Ford, GM, Delta Airlines, Reebok, Adidas, Costco, British Airways, Estee Lauder, Honda, Sears, Roebuck and CO, Avon, Origins, Starbucks, Cadbury Shweppes, Revlon, Procter and Gamble, Kohls', Barnes and Noble, Colgate, TJ MAxx, Sarah Lee, Kraft, Bloomingdales, Burger King, Whole Foods, AT&T, Comcast, Verizon, Mattel, Disney, Kelloggs, Banana Republic, Limited Brands, Old Navy, Gap, Abercrombie and Finch, Dupont, GE.
That's only SOME. And they all do some mean things. So, I could never buy anything ever, or waste most of my time going out of my way looking for alternatives all the time. Or I could just do what I gotta do, and reserve my boycotts for super egregious slights.

I'm hoping you've don't buy anything from any company on that list or this OP is a big stinking load of hooey.
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  #23  
August 20th, 2009, 10:00 PM
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Great post Torrie, ITA!
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  #24  
August 20th, 2009, 10:00 PM
*Jillian*'s Avatar Baby #3 on the way
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I personally love all those evil companies Torrie.
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  #25  
August 20th, 2009, 10:03 PM
cynicalgal
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from babymilkaction.org:

See the history of the campaign to information on how efforts to introduce independently monitored and enforced legislation are paying off and how the boycott was once called off because Nestlé promised to change its policies and practices, but broke its word so the boycott was re-launched.

Nestlé launches infant formula promotion campaign in southern Africa, violating Resolution on HIV
Company Item Date Violation Reference
Nestlé
Promotion of infant formula On-going comp/01/11



Background:

Nestlé is using the suffering of infants infected with HIV as a cover to launch promotion of infant formula in southern Africa. Research has shown that exclusively breastfed infants are at no more risk of infection than artificially-fed infants. Increased risk arises when breastfeeding mothers introduce formula or other substances (see Update 29). This is more likely to happen following the irresponsible promotion launched by Nestlé.


Link: Baby Milk Action - CEM September/October 2001


And What Does the World Health Organization have to say about BF and HIV:


While breastfeeding carries significant health benefits to infants and young children, HIV can
be transmitted during breastfeeding from an HIV-infected mother to her infant. The reduction
of this transmission is one of the most pressing public health dilemmas confronting
researchers, health-care professionals, health policy-makers and HIV-infected women in
many areas of the world, especially in developing countries.

Link: http://www.who.int/nutrition/topics/...ng_bangkok.pdf

Well now, I need to apologize...I was rereading babymilkaction.org and see they are talking about INFANTS infected with HIV. Not BF mommies infected with HIV. OK. I'll leave this here so people can access the links.
Read more: http://www.justmommies.com/forums/f3...#ixzz0On5dMcS2

Last edited by cynicalgal; August 20th, 2009 at 10:17 PM.
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  #26  
August 20th, 2009, 10:04 PM
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Oh and to be completely honest, this thread is just another attempt to make ff'in mothers "feel bad" whether the op wants to admit or not...

I mean otherwise why else would you say "do you feel that by formula feeding you are encouraging such behavior?' I mean c'mon....
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  #27  
August 20th, 2009, 10:13 PM
cynicalgal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frgsonmysox View Post
Seriously, do a little research.


I did a little research.
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  #28  
August 20th, 2009, 10:16 PM
*Jillian*'s Avatar Baby #3 on the way
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I thought to NYtimes article I linked was informative. oh well....maybe it was overlooked.

I didn't post the topic but wanted to say I am not here to make anyone feel bad. I was just curious an searched the issue for myself. Debates get heated but I am not one to guilt.
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  #29  
August 20th, 2009, 10:17 PM
Jarheadwed's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I think what these companies are doing are a result of corporate greed mixed with countries that have very lax laws about advertising truth and medical claims. I am not at all saying their guiltless, but what are FF moms supposed to do? I still don't think they're selfish in their desire to not BF, even if they could, and even if they are supporting these companies and their practices. We can't make a statement about everything. We all decide how much altruism we can and desire to personally invest, and thats how it goes.
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  #30  
August 20th, 2009, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Jillian* View Post
I thought to NYtimes article I linked was informative. oh well....maybe it was overlooked.

I didn't post the topic but wanted to say I am not here to make anyone feel bad. I was just curious an searched the issue for myself. Debates get heated but I am not one to guilt.
Oh, I'm not talking about you Jillian (if that was directed at me). I actually agree with your post, esp. the that most companies are out to make money. I mean yeah it stinks, but hey...
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  #31  
August 21st, 2009, 05:13 AM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynicalgal View Post
from babymilkaction.org:

See the history of the campaign to information on how efforts to introduce independently monitored and enforced legislation are paying off and how the boycott was once called off because Nestlé promised to change its policies and practices, but broke its word so the boycott was re-launched.

Nestlé launches infant formula promotion campaign in southern Africa, violating Resolution on HIV
Company Item Date Violation Reference
Nestlé
Promotion of infant formula On-going comp/01/11



Background:

Nestlé is using the suffering of infants infected with HIV as a cover to launch promotion of infant formula in southern Africa. Research has shown that exclusively breastfed infants are at no more risk of infection than artificially-fed infants. Increased risk arises when breastfeeding mothers introduce formula or other substances (see Update 29). This is more likely to happen following the irresponsible promotion launched by Nestlé.


Link: Baby Milk Action - CEM September/October 2001


And What Does the World Health Organization have to say about BF and HIV:


While breastfeeding carries significant health benefits to infants and young children, HIV can
be transmitted during breastfeeding from an HIV-infected mother to her infant. The reduction
of this transmission is one of the most pressing public health dilemmas confronting
researchers, health-care professionals, health policy-makers and HIV-infected women in
many areas of the world, especially in developing countries.

Link: http://www.who.int/nutrition/topics/...ng_bangkok.pdf

Well now, I need to apologize...I was rereading babymilkaction.org and see they are talking about INFANTS infected with HIV. Not BF mommies infected with HIV. OK. I'll leave this here so people can access the links.
Read more: http://www.justmommies.com/forums/f3...#ixzz0On5dMcS2
This is what really breaks my heart (the "nan" is a name for formula there):
Quote:
In one village the team visited, 30 percent of the formula-fed babies had died; none of those being breast-fed had.
Quote:
The debate, which has consumed global public health officials for years, has not reached the grieving mothers of Nkange village. None expressed any suspicions about water contamination or about the dangers of feeding formula rather than breast milk to babies. "It was just an outbreak," Swimbo said.
Mavundu, who is pregnant again, has reached the same conclusion. Her new baby is due in October.
"I think it´s a boy," she said, smiling, with her hand on her rounded belly.
Since the loss of Kabelo, Mavundu has also started on a combination of antiretroviral drugs that should control her AIDS symptoms and also make breast-feeding far safer. But no one has told her that.
When rainy season arrives in the first months of her new baby´s life, she said, "I know that I will give the Nan."
Ibfan
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  #32  
August 21st, 2009, 05:19 AM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarheadwed View Post
I think what these companies are doing are a result of corporate greed mixed with countries that have very lax laws about advertising truth and medical claims. I am not at all saying their guiltless, but what are FF moms supposed to do? I still don't think they're selfish in their desire to not BF, even if they could, and even if they are supporting these companies and their practices. We can't make a statement about everything. We all decide how much altruism we can and desire to personally invest, and thats how it goes.
You CAN buy guilt free brands like Nature's One: Natures One® is the leading organic pediatric medical food company in the US. - NaturesOne.com I realize not everyone CAN afford it (as many get free samples, WIC, etc...or buy the cheapest off brand)...but there are alternatives that although more expensive aren't ridiculously expensive. Just like I don't have to live without chocolate just because I won't support Nestle'
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B - Crazy momma to my two boys
We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




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  #33  
August 21st, 2009, 05:58 AM
Jarheadwed's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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And that's great for those who can afford it. But for most of us, for those like me, who will have to use formula is pumping is as truly unproductive as another BF thread states, we won't be able to afford things like that. I'll be able to afford Carnation or Similac.
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  #34  
August 21st, 2009, 05:58 AM
*Jillian*'s Avatar Baby #3 on the way
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To me, this wasn't a BF vs. FF issue. This was a corporate America trying to mislead less fortunate foreign women.

Nobody has to care, that's cool. But I look at this kinda stuff the same way I look at a lot of foreign affairs. Just because it didn't happen here in the US doesn't mean that it isn't important. Those are real people with real babies just like mine. I would hate to think someone was telling me they were looking out for my best interest while putting my child's life in danger. (I am talking about the way they didn't educate these women on how to prepare formula and how much they charged them).

I also think that telling women that their breastmilk is inferior can do damage for decades. Look what the formula movement in the U.S. did. That mentality that only poor people nursed and more well off people formula fed has been a part of this culture for at least 3 decades. It seems like people are just now doing their own research and choosing the feeding method that works best FOR THEM and not what a company tells them to do.

Sorry, I have been thinking a lot about it. I think about evil Walmart a lot too, but I can't afford to shop anywhere else. lol.
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  #35  
August 21st, 2009, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OliviaAlexasMom View Post
Oh and to be completely honest, this thread is just another attempt to make ff'in mothers "feel bad" whether the op wants to admit or not...

I mean otherwise why else would you say "do you feel that by formula feeding you are encouraging such behavior?' I mean c'mon....

The OP is a former formula feeder, so please don't tell me what my intentions are thank-you-very-much.
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  #36  
August 21st, 2009, 06:12 AM
*Jillian*'s Avatar Baby #3 on the way
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarheadwed View Post
And that's great for those who can afford it. But for most of us, for those like me, who will have to use formula is pumping is as truly unproductive as another BF thread states, we won't be able to afford things like that. I'll be able to afford Carnation or Similac.
Don't let that pumping thread discourage you Katey. Tons of women are successful pumpers. I just wish someone had told me that I might not have been able to pump much and I would have stop worrying about having a stockpile saved up. No pump can simulate a baby and especially not mine because he was a STRONG nurser from day one. lol. I was shocked that I could have so much milk and it wouldn't come out for the pump..but honestly I think I would have had to do it way more often to "condition" myself to it. My boobs were too smart and realized it wasn't the baby. I tricked them and pumped WHILE nursing! LOL!! Sounds crazy I know....but your body just knows things sometimes.

Also, BF isn't all or nothing. Any amout that you are able to pump is beneficial. There is a board just for pumping moms here on JM that I am sure has tons of advice.

I just don't want you to feel like it isn't possible. It is.
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  #37  
August 21st, 2009, 06:17 AM
irishxrose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Jillian* View Post
To me, this wasn't a BF vs. FF issue. This was a corporate America trying to mislead less fortunate foreign women.

Nobody has to care, that's cool. But I look at this kinda stuff the same way I look at a lot of foreign affairs. Just because it didn't happen here in the US doesn't mean that it isn't important. Those are real people with real babies just like mine. I would hate to think someone was telling me they were looking out for my best interest while putting my child's life in danger. (I am talking about the way they didn't educate these women on how to prepare formula and how much they charged them).

I also think that telling women that their breastmilk is inferior can do damage for decades. Look what the formula movement in the U.S. did. That mentality that only poor people nursed and more well off people formula fed has been a part of this culture for at least 3 decades. It seems like people are just now doing their own research and choosing the feeding method that works best FOR THEM and not what a company tells them to do.

Sorry, I have been thinking a lot about it. I think about evil Walmart a lot too, but I can't afford to shop anywhere else. lol.


And to whoever posted that Beth posted this just to make FF feel guilty... well, you don't know Beth very well. This was never about those who formula fed and to make them feel guilty - it's about the disturbing unethical behavior of formula companies, which for the record pisses me off just as much as the unethical and disgusting behavior of the businesses that crashed our economy (can we say banks? can we say car companies? can we say every stupid moronic company CEOs that whined about not being able to keep their multi-million dollar bonuses while Americans are starving and being forced out of their homes and 46 million are uninsured yet the insurance CEO was making $40 million a YEAR? I can go on all day here). Quite frankly, capitalist greed is more of an issue in this debate than whether or not YOU PERSONALLY formula fed. Beth was not trying to make anyone feel guilty, whatsoever - this is about the disturbing unethical behavior of U.S. companies that we should NOT be okay with. By taking a nonchalant attitude, we contribute to this continuing to happen. That is not okay with me, and it should not be okay with anyone else.
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  #38  
August 21st, 2009, 07:23 AM
fluffycheeks's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Formula can be a great thing for a baby. When the mother can't bf, there are very few other options and what else are you supposed to do, let the baby starve? I don't think the OP was claiming that no one should ever feed their baby formula. But why not do a little research as to whether or not your particular formula company contributed to the nearly 1.5 million children die per year needlessly because their mothers were told, by the formula company, that their breastmilk was harmful to their baby, that formula would turn their babies smarter and would help them develop faster.

As for the list posted, yes, I shop at many of those stores. However, I see not paying fair market trade amounts as slightly different from knowingly causing deaths of millions of babies to make a buck.

This is not about ff vs bf'ing. It's about the murderous behavior of some formula companies. I could never in good conscience feed my child a bottle of Nestle knowing that I am further adding to the wealth of individuals who have no value for the lives of third world babies.

Last edited by fluffycheeks; August 21st, 2009 at 07:44 AM.
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  #39  
August 21st, 2009, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beck12 View Post
You CAN buy guilt free brands like Nature's One: Natures One® is the leading organic pediatric medical food company in the US. - NaturesOne.com I realize not everyone CAN afford it (as many get free samples, WIC, etc...or buy the cheapest off brand)...but there are alternatives that although more expensive aren't ridiculously expensive. Just like I don't have to live without chocolate just because I won't support Nestle'
I use this for the trio, and gee its also free of traces of melamine (my reason for getting it and the peds sign off on using it). It is not cheap, but it eases my mind a bit. I think that the marketing campaigns are horrible, but there are some stores on responsible shopper I will still shop at.
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  #40  
August 21st, 2009, 07:55 AM
bumbleboo12's Avatar Super Mommy
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Another Huge problem with formula is the PRICE!! If anything that is extremely unethical. For people who have no choice but to at least supplement (like Me) or FF 100% those bills add up. I prob will spend $70 a month using formula half of the time. We all know it does not take THAT much to make a can of formula that they need to charge $15 for a can that will last 5 days. It is sad, and was actually a huge reason I chose to BF, I couldnt afford formula all the time!
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