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  #41  
August 21st, 2009, 08:00 AM
*Jillian*'s Avatar Baby #3 on the way
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^^If I had to formula feed I would find out which company WIC was affliated with in my state and then buy another brand. I said this in another post but they jack the prices of the formula WIC provides WAY up because the Govt. reimburses them for the retail price.

Also...and I can put this in its own thread if necessary, but what about store brand formula?? If formula is safe and regulated then shouldn't it all be good? I know the difference can be almost $10 a can. Just curious.
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  #42  
August 21st, 2009, 08:27 AM
TheOtherMichelle's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
And to whoever posted that Beth posted this just to make FF feel guilty... well, you don't know Beth very well. This was never about those who formula fed and to make them feel guilty - it's about the disturbing unethical behavior of formula companies, which for the record pisses me off just as much as the unethical and disgusting behavior of the businesses that crashed our economy (can we say banks? can we say car companies? can we say every stupid moronic company CEOs that whined about not being able to keep their multi-million dollar bonuses while Americans are starving and being forced out of their homes and 46 million are uninsured yet the insurance CEO was making $40 million a YEAR? I can go on all day here). Quite frankly, capitalist greed is more of an issue in this debate than whether or not YOU PERSONALLY formula fed. Beth was not trying to make anyone feel guilty, whatsoever - this is about the disturbing unethical behavior of U.S. companies that we should NOT be okay with. By taking a nonchalant attitude, we contribute to this continuing to happen. That is not okay with me, and it should not be okay with anyone else.
For a post that's not an attempt to make others feel guilt, you could have fooled me:

God forbid you actually try to put the blame on the practices of unethical companies or the politicians looking the other way. God forbid you try to share the information with links and start a grass-roots campaign to stop it. No, let's start a thread with a post like this:

Quote:
For those of you who formula feed, how do you feel about the unethical campaigning practices of the formula companies? Do you think by formula feeding you are supporting such behaviour?
But to answer the question as someone who did partially FF, I think the unethical campaigning practices are reprehensible, should be stopped, but no, I don't feel guilty for doing what I had to do to take care of my child at a time when FF was my best option. Thank-you-very-much.
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  #43  
August 21st, 2009, 08:30 AM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarheadwed View Post
And that's great for those who can afford it. But for most of us, for those like me, who will have to use formula is pumping is as truly unproductive as another BF thread states, we won't be able to afford things like that. I'll be able to afford Carnation or Similac.
No one stated in that thread that pumping is "unproductive"....seriously. Does it always work for every woman? No, but most times you can pump some...even if it isn't enough to do all of every feeding. And at LEAST as many women overproduce as those who say they can't pump a thing.

I did supplement & that resulted in about a can of formula per month.... And in all seriousness...please don't assume others have it easier financially. After the birth of my son I had an unpaid maternity leave of 8 weeks (2 weeks prior to labor I could not work & then six weeks following) followed by JUST returning to work only to end up with a 2 week serious illness where I was off work, my Dh's business partner had been basically stealing from the company (which became relaly apparent as to why Dh wasn't makingmoney anymore) & that only got worse to the point we owed money just to resolve the business (and save face because we live in a small community & wanted to make good if we could with the local businesses that he had contracts with) & that was followed by nealry 20 months of unemployment for my husband. I can still manage to do (and buy) the things that truly matter to me. If others are okay with these companies after knowing what they do & want to use their products....then whatever, nothing I can say to change that....but to infer that most people can't afford a couple extra dollars per week if they really WANTED to prioritize it is kind of nonsense.....unless a person is eating PB&J in order to survive....there is a lot of flex in how one chooses to spend their money, even when they are broke. You know as well as I do that there are people who smoke that would tell you they can't afford the organic (and ethically made) formula. Seriously? I have literally heard women tell me that can't "afford" to say donate to this or that worthy cause all the while making way more money than me, shopping at the mall (while I shop thrift), getting new furniture, etc....and they are being honest...in THEIR minds they can't afford to do this or that AND keep the things they want (like new furniture & mall clothes). It is all perspective. To me this isn't about FF vs. BF this is about giving a darn about the ethics of companies you choose to support. I wouldn't buy my clothes from sweat shops, I won't buy my chocolate from slave laborers & I won't buy my formula from corporate monsters who truly don't value the health of babies (unless they happen to be Westerners apparently & even then I am not sure they care...but they HAVE to behave).
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We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




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  #44  
August 21st, 2009, 08:46 AM
foxfire_ga79
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Something just isn't adding up for me.
If formula companies are in 3rd world countries tricking women into using their product, are they making any money? I mean, if the country is in such bad shape that the drinking water kills people it doesn't make sense that the people in those situations can even afford to buy the formula in the first place. That doesn't seem very motivating to me.

A PP asked about using store brand formula. With our 3rd baby we used the store brand. I think the price of name brand formulas are outrageous. In fact, name brand anything is probably overblown in price and we use store brands as much as possible.
My doctor had no problem with us using the store brand formula. "Human grade" food has high minimum standards. DS is very healthy and smart.
So I guess that's my way of protesting big business, by using store brands. But I can't boycott anything, I'd never get food! I'm not nonchalant about it, I can be pissed off all day long at big businesses. But that won't do me any good, we have to eat and cover all our other human needs.
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  #45  
August 21st, 2009, 08:51 AM
**Badfish**'s Avatar Worth Saving
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxfire_ga79 View Post
Something just isn't adding up for me.
If formula companies are in 3rd world countries tricking women into using their product, are they making any money? I mean, if the country is in such bad shape that the drinking water kills people it doesn't make sense that the people in those situations can even afford to buy the formula in the first place. That doesn't seem very motivating to me.

A PP asked about using store brand formula. With our 3rd baby we used the store brand. I think the price of name brand formulas are outrageous. In fact, name brand anything is probably overblown in price and we use store brands as much as possible.
My doctor had no problem with us using the store brand formula. "Human grade" food has high minimum standards. DS is very healthy and smart.
So I guess that's my way of protesting big business, by using store brands. But I can't boycott anything, I'd never get food! I'm not nonchalant about it, I can be pissed off all day long at big businesses. But that won't do me any good, we have to eat and cover all our other human needs.
Kind of off topic, but does everyone remember the dog food recall a couple of years ago? The insanely expensive dog food was recalled as was the store brands. They were all made in the same plant. We stopped paying an extra $20 a bag after that. I'm guessing it's the same type of deal for formula. You can pay the extra money for the name brand, but it's probably the exact same thing that's in the store brand.
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  #46  
August 21st, 2009, 08:53 AM
fluffycheeks's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxfire_ga79 View Post
Something just isn't adding up for me.
If formula companies are in 3rd world countries tricking women into using their product, are they making any money? I mean, if the country is in such bad shape that the drinking water kills people it doesn't make sense that the people in those situations can even afford to buy the formula in the first place. That doesn't seem very motivating to me.
That's the other half of the problem - the moms start out giving formula because they are told that their bm is toxic to their babies, and by the time they have figured out that they can't really afford it (because the first couple cans they get for free from the company), their supply has dried up. So they have no choice but to water down their child's formula, hoping to make it stretch a bit further. So not only are the babies getting their formula mixed in unsanitary water, causing severe diarrhea and other problems, they are usually also severely malnourished because they are not getting the calories and nutrient that they need every day.

As for store brands, I would have no problem using them if I used formula. All formula has to meet the same standards, so I don't really think that the expensive stuff is any better than the storebrand.
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  #47  
August 21st, 2009, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donomama View Post
Formula can be a great thing for a baby. When the mother can't bf, there are very few other options and what else are you supposed to do, let the baby starve? I don't think the OP was claiming that no one should ever feed their baby formula. But why not do a little research as to whether or not your particular formula company contributed to the nearly 1.5 million children die per year needlessly because their mothers were told, by the formula company, that their breastmilk was harmful to their baby, that formula would turn their babies smarter and would help them develop faster.

As for the list posted, yes, I shop at many of those stores. However, I see not paying fair market trade amounts as slightly different from knowingly causing deaths of millions of babies to make a buck.

This is not about ff vs bf'ing. It's about the murderous behavior of some formula companies. I could never in good conscience feed my child a bottle of Nestle knowing that I am further adding to the wealth of individuals who have no value for the lives of third world babies.

Agree 100%

Quote:
Originally Posted by donomama View Post
That's the other half of the problem - the moms start out giving formula because they are told that their bm is toxic to their babies, and by the time they have figured out that they can't really afford it (because the first couple cans they get for free from the company), their supply has dried up. So they have no choice but to water down their child's formula, hoping to make it stretch a bit further. So not only are the babies getting their formula mixed in unsanitary water, causing severe diarrhea and other problems, they are usually also severely malnourished because they are not getting the calories and nutrient that they need every day.

As for store brands, I would have no problem using them if I used formula. All formula has to meet the same standards, so I don't really think that the expensive stuff is any better than the storebrand.

ditto
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  #48  
August 21st, 2009, 09:14 AM
foxfire_ga79
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I just went and read that link Jillian posted and toward the end it said in the Philippines the cost adds up to about $44 a month to formula feed. That further proves to me that women in the US are way over paying for their formula. I haven't looked at formula prices lately, but if I'm not mistaken a can of Similac that's liquid but still has to be diluted used to cost around $4 a can and small babies usually use a can a day. In a 30 day month that would be $120.
I guess these companies can take a lower margin of profit in these other countries as long as American parents are picking up the slack.
I know store brands ultimate goal is to make a profit, but at least they're not as big of jerks with huge profit margins like big biz. I think lots of businesses have unethical standards. I'm just not in a position to cut myself off from the world and be totally self reliant.

Yes I remember the dog food recall, and you're right. My dogs now get store brand food. I used to buy moderate premium because with it not being human grade they don't have to follow as strict of standards. When the ingredients list any animal by-products, well that's pretty gross. lol You have to buy an ultrapremium dog food if you want your dogs on human grade food. But to me, the difference between Purina and Old Roy is pretty slim. Any dog food you can get in a grocery store is the same stuff in different priced bags. Unless you plan to buy from specialty pet stores there is no point in paying more for dog food if choosing between what you can get at Walmart. And anyone who is that concerned about their dog's diet that they are willing to go for ultrapremium really should look into BARF and RMB.
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  #49  
August 21st, 2009, 09:36 AM
fluffycheeks's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxfire_ga79 View Post
I just went and read that link Jillian posted and toward the end it said in the Philippines the cost adds up to about $44 a month to formula feed. That further proves to me that women in the US are way over paying for their formula. I haven't looked at formula prices lately, but if I'm not mistaken a can of Similac that's liquid but still has to be diluted used to cost around $4 a can and small babies usually use a can a day. In a 30 day month that would be $120.
I guess these companies can take a lower margin of profit in these other countries as long as American parents are picking up the slack.
This is what you got from that article? Did you know that the average monthly salary for The Phillipines is about $220/month?! In the US, the average monthly salary is about $2500/month. So in the Phillipines, the cost is about 20% of their monthly salary, which is the recommended portion of a house payment to salary here in the US. Based on the average US salary, parents are spending about 4% of their income on formula, so if you ask me, formula is much more overpriced in the Phillipines than in the US!
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  #50  
August 21st, 2009, 10:02 AM
foxfire_ga79
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Well that's not all I got from the article but if you read my earlier post in this thread I was wondering what financial benefit there was to these companies targeting poor countries. From a business perspective it doesn't usually make sense to market to poor people.
That article answered my question and I came to the conclusion that the profit margin must be HUGE in America if these companies are making a profit even in countries like the Philippines.
And this isn't the only detail I'm thinking in this discussion so please don't act like that's my only concern. Everyone else is already talking about the points you made and all I was trying to do was add another detail.
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  #51  
August 21st, 2009, 10:08 AM
OliviaAlexasMom's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Like I said, the way she posted def. makes it seem that way, and considering what I have read on other threads on here that she has said about formula, I still stand by what I said.
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  #52  
August 21st, 2009, 10:23 AM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxfire_ga79 View Post
I just went and read that link Jillian posted and toward the end it said in the Philippines the cost adds up to about $44 a month to formula feed. That further proves to me that women in the US are way over paying for their formula. I haven't looked at formula prices lately, but if I'm not mistaken a can of Similac that's liquid but still has to be diluted used to cost around $4 a can and small babies usually use a can a day. In a 30 day month that would be $120.
I guess these companies can take a lower margin of profit in these other countries as long as American parents are picking up the slack.
I know store brands ultimate goal is to make a profit, but at least they're not as big of jerks with huge profit margins like big biz. I think lots of businesses have unethical standards. I'm just not in a position to cut myself off from the world and be totally self reliant.

Yes I remember the dog food recall, and you're right. My dogs now get store brand food. I used to buy moderate premium because with it not being human grade they don't have to follow as strict of standards. When the ingredients list any animal by-products, well that's pretty gross. lol You have to buy an ultrapremium dog food if you want your dogs on human grade food. But to me, the difference between Purina and Old Roy is pretty slim. Any dog food you can get in a grocery store is the same stuff in different priced bags. Unless you plan to buy from specialty pet stores there is no point in paying more for dog food if choosing between what you can get at Walmart. And anyone who is that concerned about their dog's diet that they are willing to go for ultrapremium really should look into BARF and RMB.
You forget though too that every batch that doesn't pass muster for our FDA gets shipped over there and SOLD...even with dangerous imbalances in ingredients & contaminants....soooooo that changes things a bit. Also, you really should take the time to watch the video I talked about on you tube "Formula for Disaster"....you would see many women proudly professing how awesome their Dh is because he is willing to work three jobs to make sure their baby gets the best (formula) and doesn't have to settle for BF..... So far, even in this down economy & Michigan being at 15% unemployment, I have known of no one that can't get formula nor have I ever known anyone that needed a second job to get their formula. It sickens me. Here these people have been dooped into believing not only that BM isn't good for their baby but that as good parents it is their obligation to go to the ends of the earth to come up with the money to buy a product they don't even need & that absolutely is not better for their babies. Not only that you will see women ashamed they must BF because they can't afford formula & lamenting about their "poor" abbies not getting the best start in life because they can't provide them formula. Sick sick sick!
YouTube - Formula for Disaster Part 1
YouTube - Formula for Disaster: A documentary (Part 2 of 5)
YouTube - Formula for Disaster (Part 3 of 5)
YouTube - Formula for Disaster: A documentary (Part 4 of 5)
YouTube - Formula for Disaster: A documentary (Part 5 of 5)

Oh I mispoke in this thread or another one....there are five parts...not 4.
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B - Crazy momma to my two boys
We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




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  #53  
August 21st, 2009, 10:28 AM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OliviaAlexasMom View Post
Like I said, the way she posted def. makes it seem that way, and considering what I have read on other threads on here that she has said about formula, I still stand by what I said.
You are right, she is very outspoken about formula & her distaste for it....but speaking badly about formula & formula companies is NOT speaking badly about FF mommies.

I know she tends to be short sometimes in posts....but she has been NAK for at least 3 yrs now, and for a year she has been NAK TWO children... LOL...it's a hazard of the trade to not be able to type out a lengthy post. I would be shorter too....but I pop on at work when I get a minute so no one is in my lap. When I am home, and when I have NAK, half the time I gave up posting & just lurked....LOL Believe me, she isn't trying to antagonize you or anyone else....

Sometimes we have to choose to quit reading defensively rather than assuming someone is on the offense.
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B - Crazy momma to my two boys
We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




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  #54  
August 21st, 2009, 10:38 AM
foxfire_ga79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beck12 View Post
You forget though too that every batch that doesn't pass muster for our FDA gets shipped over there and SOLD...even with dangerous imbalances in ingredients & contaminants....soooooo that changes things a bit. Also, you really should take the time to watch the video I talked about on you tube "Formula for Disaster"....you would see many women proudly professing how awesome their Dh is because he is willing to work three jobs to make sure their baby gets the best (formula) and doesn't have to settle for BF..... So far, even in this down economy & Michigan being at 15% unemployment, I have known of no one that can't get formula nor have I ever known anyone that needed a second job to get their formula. It sickens me. Here these people have been dooped into believing not only that BM isn't good for their baby but that as good parents it is their obligation to go to the ends of the earth to come up with the money to buy a product they don't even need & that absolutely is not better for their babies. Not only that you will see women ashamed they must BF because they can't afford formula & lamenting about their "poor" abbies not getting the best start in life because they can't provide them formula. Sick sick sick!
YouTube - Formula for Disaster Part 1
YouTube - Formula for Disaster: A documentary (Part 2 of 5)
YouTube - Formula for Disaster (Part 3 of 5)
YouTube - Formula for Disaster: A documentary (Part 4 of 5)
YouTube - Formula for Disaster: A documentary (Part 5 of 5)

Oh I mispoke in this thread or another one....there are five parts...not 4.

I don't understand why you say I've forgotten anything. Exactly at what point did I say that I'm Ok with their marketing ploys? Why is anybody here acting like I'm disagreeing with their argument because I asked about profit margins?
I really wish that wasn't directed at me as if I need to be convinced that their advertising campaigns are wrong. I've never sympathized with the formula companies.
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  #55  
August 21st, 2009, 10:48 AM
cynicalgal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frgsonmysox View Post
For those of you who formula feed, how do you feel about the unethical campaigning practices of the formula companies? Do you think by formula feeding you are supporting such behaviour?
As I've been thinking about it it occurred to me - it doesn't matter. Bear with me here.

We are ALL consumers of things....and whether you FF or BF it doesn't make a hill of difference in the budget of (for argument sake) Nestle.

Nestle is HUGE and everything that falls under the Nestle umbrella. Its like trying to avoid Proctor & Gamble. Nearly Impossible. I think I would have to manufacture and farm all of my goods and foods and even THEN I probably couldn't avoid purchasing a product from a corporation that manufactures and sells formula.

Whether a person buys formula or not - they are most likely buying SOME kind of product from a company that manufactures and sells formula.

We all know formula feeding is NOT going to go away. And as long as there is demand for formula, its the 'vicious circle'.

As to unethical campaigning, I just don't know. I haven't seen it, I did read the NYtimes article. I think its unfair that consumers would think Advertisments are what they should base their decision on, on a topic as important as BF vs. FF.

I can only say I, personally, try to be an informed consumer and generally don't base my decisions based on an advert. campaign.

and with that....i'll step off my soapbox.
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  #56  
August 21st, 2009, 11:06 AM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxfire_ga79 View Post
I don't understand why you say I've forgotten anything. Exactly at what point did I say that I'm Ok with their marketing ploys? Why is anybody here acting like I'm disagreeing with their argument because I asked about profit margins?
I really wish that wasn't directed at me as if I need to be convinced that their advertising campaigns are wrong. I've never sympathized with the formula companies.
I seriously don’t know what you are talking about there.....I was saying that charging them $4 for stuff they would have to throw away in the US IS profitable at ANY profit....so I was addressing EXACTLY what you were talking about....the way we are “overpaying” in this country. I highly doubt that we are. I don’t think they are receiving the same quality as we do, it's like apples & oranges.

Secondly - you were talking about how cheap it is there...the video addresses the costs. That is it. Maybe try not looking for offense where there is none. My response to you had NOTHING to do with trying to "educate" you regarding marketing...and I never thought that you were defending them on that. I am totally confused as to whatyou read regarding what I actually wrote to you.
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B - Crazy momma to my two boys
We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




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  #57  
August 21st, 2009, 11:12 AM
*Jillian*'s Avatar Baby #3 on the way
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Cynical-The companies went into Filipino hospitals too and paid dr's. It wasn't just an ad campaign it was a full on ad attack where they went in the country and spread so much propoganda that it literally changed the outcome of their lives. Babies died and families struggled. That article provided many resources for you to do your own research.

No, formula can't be avoided. Nobody thinks it should be. It is a valuable resource that they charge an arm and a leg for. It kinda sucks to think that just to feed your baby you need to spend $100 a month or more for a product that cost pennies to make. It is BS.

I can't avoid all bad companies...but I am not going to act like it doesn't bother me. Yeah, it happens sometimes that people are lied to manipulated. That doesn't mean I can't sympathize.

Foxfire, I totally see what you were talking about in reference to the article and I am glad you brought it up. The price they were charging knowing that the income of the Philippeans is so low was sick. Not fair....but that is what you can do when you scare people. Scare tactics always work, especially when it comes to our children. The sky high price they charged forced a lot of these women to dilute the formula because they had no money and they were scared of not using it. They were told that their babies needed it.
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Last edited by *Jillian*; August 21st, 2009 at 11:17 AM.
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  #58  
August 21st, 2009, 11:14 AM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynicalgal View Post
As I've been thinking about it it occurred to me - it doesn't matter. Bear with me here.

We are ALL consumers of things....and whether you FF or BF it doesn't make a hill of difference in the budget of (for argument sake) Nestle.

Nestle is HUGE and everything that falls under the Nestle umbrella. Its like trying to avoid Proctor & Gamble. Nearly Impossible. I think I would have to manufacture and farm all of my goods and foods and even THEN I probably couldn't avoid purchasing a product from a corporation that manufactures and sells formula.

Whether a person buys formula or not - they are most likely buying SOME kind of product from a company that manufactures and sells formula.

We all know formula feeding is NOT going to go away. And as long as there is demand for formula, its the 'vicious circle'.

As to unethical campaigning, I just don't know. I haven't seen it, I did read the NYtimes article. I think its unfair that consumers would think Advertisments are what they should base their decision on, on a topic as important as BF vs. FF.

I can only say I, personally, try to be an informed consumer and generally don't base my decisions based on an advert. campaign.

and with that....i'll step off my soapbox.
You are preaching to the wrong lady there though...she does grow a lot of her own food....totally organic, makes soap, cloth diapers, etc, etc, etc. Unlike most of us she is pretty much off the grid & doesn't rely on corporations to make her life function with their various products. As for me, I still buy stuff of course...but now recently Nestle has acquired Gerber (that is a Michigan based company) and I no longer buy Gerber. Will I avoid ever buying anything that comes from business that have unethical practices? No, I imagine a few things will slip through....but I also am not okay with knowingly deciding not to try because I can't be bothered to care or to do what I CAN do. Can I fix the world? No. Will me choosing to boycott these companies do anything...not if I am in it alone...
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  #59  
August 21st, 2009, 11:15 AM
frgsonmysox's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OliviaAlexasMom View Post
Like I said, the way she posted def. makes it seem that way, and considering what I have read on other threads on here that she has said about formula, I still stand by what I said.
If you have an issue with me, PM me. Until then stop assuming you know my intentions. I was a FF. Most of my friends use formula. I AM VERY pro-breastfeeding, but that doesn't mean I'm anti-formula USERS, just anti-formula.

Beck - I totally have a girl crush on you. You say things so much better than I do.
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  #60  
August 21st, 2009, 11:22 AM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Originally Posted by frgsonmysox View Post
Beck - I totally have a girl crush on you. You say things so much better than I do.
That made me laugh because that TOTALLY depends on who you ask....!
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B - Crazy momma to my two boys
We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




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