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UHC vs Socialized health care


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  #1  
October 15th, 2009, 10:37 PM
(.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.)
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I've seen it come up a few times so I was wondering what your definition of socialized health care is compared to Universal Health Care? How does the definition of these two terms change your view on current health care reforms being discussed?
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  #2  
October 16th, 2009, 06:38 AM
KimberlyD0
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UHC and SHC are the same thing are they not? Heathcare for all supplied by the govn't through its peoples taxes.

correct me if I am wrong
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  #3  
October 16th, 2009, 07:48 AM
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Its the same thing. I think that the US govt CALLs it UHC so that it's citizens wont' balk at the term "socialized".

We already are a socialist country we might as well sign the paperwork to make it legit. At least we'd probably save a little money if we just formalized it...
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  #4  
October 16th, 2009, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilmom View Post

We already are a socialist country we might as well sign the paperwork to make it legit. At least we'd probably save a little money if we just formalized it...

I think the US (and most countries) are far from a socialist regime if you meant that the means of production, distribution and exchange are all regulated by the community as a whole. If that were true there would be no capitalism, job class, rich or poor... you can't run a socialist government while a Republic holds the reigns.
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  #5  
October 16th, 2009, 08:53 AM
(.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.)
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LOL! I think this is exactly a Cdn/US cultural difference!

When I'm on the phone with Beck12 and StaceyC, they say there is a difference. A few of their posts have suggested this too. I'm sure there must be some Republicans here that shed some light on how you can have UHC without being socialized. I don't understand the difference.
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  #6  
October 16th, 2009, 10:34 AM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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IN my understanding this is the difference....

Universal Healthcare is like what we have as medicaid now. The government is your insurance provider. They do not employ or contract the healthcare providers in ANY way shape or form.

Socialized Medicine is more like where Drs, nurses, etc are like state/federal/government employees & healthcare costs/payments are handled as such.

I personally dont' see why it would be so difficult (legisitically speaking oNLY, not economically) for teh US to give everyone they want to include in the healthcare reforms a version of Medicaid - because they already have that & Medicare (for people over 65) in place, it would just be an expansion/extension/branch of that existing program to cover those that don't currently qualify. For instance in Michigan there is a program called "Mychild" that allows parents who don't meet full medicaid standard to buy insurance to cover their children at a greatly reduced rate as compared to traditional insurance plans. BUT you still have to make an income requirement that not everyone can make...and unfortunately from my understanding, due to the high number of people applying now (HIGH unemployment) in our state programs, they have revamped again & made it harder to qualify.
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  #7  
October 16th, 2009, 11:11 AM
MissTorrieIfYou'reNasty's Avatar Co-Host of Heated Debates
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.) View Post
LOL! I think this is exactly a Cdn/US cultural difference!

When I'm on the phone with Beck12 and StaceyC, they say there is a difference. A few of their posts have suggested this too. I'm sure there must be some Republicans here that shed some light on how you can have UHC without being socialized. I don't understand the difference.
FWIW, I don't really feel there is a difference. But I'm not one to run screaming from the word "socialized" either.
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  #8  
October 16th, 2009, 11:18 AM
irishxrose
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Originally Posted by Torrie View Post
FWIW, I don't really feel there is a difference. But I'm not one to run screaming from the word "socialized" either.
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  #9  
October 16th, 2009, 11:28 AM
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The only difference is people are scared of the word "socialized" and they think the government is going to kill their grandmother if we get rid of our for-profit health care system. Not that I've met anyone who is for UHC and against socialized health care. It's always the same argument: "If people would just work harder and stop being so lazy they could afford their own health care. Why should I pay for them to have it for free?" Having health insurance has become something of an elitist commodity lately.
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  #10  
October 16th, 2009, 12:13 PM
(.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.)
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Thank you comrades!



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  #11  
October 16th, 2009, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katt223 View Post
I think the US (and most countries) are far from a socialist regime if you meant that the means of production, distribution and exchange are all regulated by the community as a whole. If that were true there would be no capitalism, job class, rich or poor... you can't run a socialist government while a Republic holds the reigns.
That communism, not socialism. Canada is socialist, so is Britain and they certainly have a free market, job class, rich and poor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess is Write View Post
The only difference is people are scared of the word "socialized" and they think the government is going to kill their grandmother if we get rid of our for-profit health care system. Not that I've met anyone who is for UHC and against socialized health care. It's always the same argument: "If people would just work harder and stop being so lazy they could afford their own health care. Why should I pay for them to have it for free?" Having health insurance has become something of an elitist commodity lately.
Problem is that arguement that everyone in the US could have ehalth care if they work harder is faulty. There ALWAYS has to be someone working at gas stations, there will always be waitresses, handy men, etc etc... to say that these people don't work hard is ridiculous. They work hard, but no matter how hard the work they won't be able to afford private healthcare and their employers will never offer it. Get a better job? Some of them could I guess but someone always has to work in those places. I don't really mind my taxes going for these guys to have healthcare. What I wouldn't like and don't like is tax money going to people who have NO job and no intentions of working. That bugs me.
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  #12  
October 16th, 2009, 06:07 PM
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^^Even still, you can have a good career and well-paying job and not have (or be able to afford) health insurance. You can work in a fast food joint and have health insurance, or be the president of your own company but not have health insurance.
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  #13  
October 16th, 2009, 10:41 PM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess is Write View Post
The only difference is people are scared of the word "socialized" and they think the government is going to kill their grandmother if we get rid of our for-profit health care system. Not that I've met anyone who is for UHC and against socialized health care. It's always the same argument: "If people would just work harder and stop being so lazy they could afford their own health care. Why should I pay for them to have it for free?" Having health insurance has become something of an elitist commodity lately.
Well - hello...you have met one now.

Seriously - at this point I think we just need to make sure everyone is covered...but given my druthers (channeling my mom there, excuse me..LOL) I think UHC is a MUCH better idea than socialized medicine, at least how I understand them to work.
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We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




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  #14  
October 17th, 2009, 05:17 AM
TheOtherMichelle's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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So how would UHC vs. socialized medicine affect medical professionals?
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  #15  
October 17th, 2009, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilmom View Post
That communism, not socialism. Canada is socialist, so is Britain and they certainly have a free market, job class, rich and poor.


actually communism is when all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs. Having policies like SHC or UHC are great but they do not define a socialist government. They may lean towards the theory but Canada and Britain are FAR from being run by socialists. In Canada right now we are lead by the Conservative party... the closest party in office to even be considered democratic socialists would be the NDP which come in third at every election. My point was just that Capitalism would not exist within a socialist government "socialist state"... and if the people voted in a socialist government then I would assume they would agree that Capitalism does more harm than good.
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  #16  
October 17th, 2009, 10:28 AM
mayandsofiasmommy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beck12 View Post
IN my understanding this is the difference....

Universal Healthcare is like what we have as medicaid now. The government is your insurance provider. They do not employ or contract the healthcare providers in ANY way shape or form.

Socialized Medicine is more like where Drs, nurses, etc are like state/federal/government employees & healthcare costs/payments are handled as such.

I personally dont' see why it would be so difficult (legisitically speaking oNLY, not economically) for teh US to give everyone they want to include in the healthcare reforms a version of Medicaid - because they already have that & Medicare (for people over 65) in place, it would just be an expansion/extension/branch of that existing program to cover those that don't currently qualify. For instance in Michigan there is a program called "Mychild" that allows parents who don't meet full medicaid standard to buy insurance to cover their children at a greatly reduced rate as compared to traditional insurance plans. BUT you still have to make an income requirement that not everyone can make...and unfortunately from my understanding, due to the high number of people applying now (HIGH unemployment) in our state programs, they have revamped again & made it harder to qualify.
Yes, this is the difference, and there is a difference, although some can't see the difference. Plus, with UHC it gives you the option of KEEPING your current insurance or going w/ the federal option. Huge difference.
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  #17  
October 17th, 2009, 12:29 PM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherMichelle View Post
So how would UHC vs. socialized medicine affect medical professionals?
UHC would make it about the same for them as it is now. I can't see where they would be affected at all. Socialized medicine would make them state or federally employees.
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We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




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  #18  
October 17th, 2009, 02:55 PM
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^^Even still, you can have a good career and well-paying job and not have (or be able to afford) health insurance. You can work in a fast food joint and have health insurance, or be the president of your own company but not have health insurance.
Yup...very true.
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  #19  
October 18th, 2009, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherMichelle
So how would UHC vs. socialized medicine affect medical professionals?
UHC would make it about the same for them as it is now. I can't see where they would be affected at all. Socialized medicine would make them state or federally employees.
Actually, that's not accurate. Under UHC Drs are penalized for spending to much, for instance, on tests or surgeries ordered for their patients. That limits a Dr's freedom on how to properly care for patients.
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  #20  
October 18th, 2009, 01:54 PM
KimberlyD0
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Originally Posted by oicyur View Post
Actually, that's not accurate. Under UHC Drs are penalized for spending to much, for instance, on tests or surgeries ordered for their patients. That limits a Dr's freedom on how to properly care for patients.
SOOOO not true

UHC doesn't restrict the doctors in the least and in fact gives them more freedome. When DD was born with a mysterious congenital condition it was a matter of weeks before we had a pediatrition, genetisist, and a whole slew of tests up and going. Even now she has regular appointments with the family doctor, the pediatrition, genetics, optomalogy, audiology, ultrasound (every 3 months till she is 8), blood work (every 3 months till 4, then relooked at), physio, ocupational, and speech tharopies, She's had several x-rays, and she's set for an MRI and CT Scan as soon as she is old enough and her lungs strong enough to be able to be safely put under. ALL covered by OHIP (Ontario Health Insurence)

I have never been forced to use a doctor I don't like. I have never been unable to see a specialist I need. Do we have to wait? yes. Depending on what it is and how serious thats how the waits are.

Never have I been turned away from a walk in clinic, ER or doctors office.

My daughters condition is pre-existing (since she is born with it) and life long. We don't know what her future health holds, good or bad. But we do know that we never have to worry about her being denied care because she can't get insurence. She wont pay more for the same medical care as anyone else because she has this condition.

No one is ever going to die in our hospitals because they can't aford medical care.

I just shake my head at many of these UHC Myths. Who's spreading this nonsence?

Last edited by KimberlyD0; October 18th, 2009 at 01:57 PM.
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