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Separating moms & newborns for H1N1


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  #21  
October 17th, 2009, 06:03 PM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torrie View Post
I'm ok with it in that it just doesn't ping my outrage meter. I think all this recent emphasis on early bonding can get a bit hysterical at times. Women will flip out about any little thing that goes wrong in the first few weeks, convinced they've ruined for life now. Sometimes we all just need to take a breath.
So someone else taking basically your parental right saway for 48 hrs with your newborn doesn't peek your rage meter? It seems odd to me with what I have seen peek your rage meter at times. I thought you were a pretty strong proponent of parental rights.

As far as early bonding - whether that is an issue to some women or not is totally beside the point & it's not what I am personally concerned about at all in fact. One thing that DOES concern me though is that in the midst of this supposed epidemic, we do the one thing that is most likely to sabotage the BF relationship when BF is the ONE thing that ALL health organizations including the CDC recommend for babies under 6 mos...it is the ONLY thing in fact. So besides violating parental rights (if they are doing so without consent) they are contradicting their own recommendations by reducing the likelihood that a strong start to BFing will be established. That's not subjective - that is measurable & proven over & over again. Women who don't establish BF soon after birth (suggested is within an hour literally) are very unlikely to be successful when compared to women that nurse immediately & often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiemummy View Post
If I was going to put my newborn baby at risk there would be no question. Keep them away from me for 48 hours. It would be horrendous, but my childs health is the most important thing.
Yes but that is even subjective - it depends on WHO you believe & what you find through research. I am not at all convince that my baby would be better off separated & that is my right to decide that.
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We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




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  #22  
October 17th, 2009, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiemummy View Post
If I was going to put my newborn baby at risk there would be no question. Keep them away from me for 48 hours. It would be horrendous, but my childs health is the most important thing.
That is YOUR choice though. It should be each and every mother's CHOICE. Not forced.
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  #23  
October 17th, 2009, 06:09 PM
aussiemummy
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And that would be my choice. I didn't say every mother should do the same thing. Your baby, your choice. We all do what we think is best.
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  #24  
October 17th, 2009, 06:12 PM
**Badfish**'s Avatar Worth Saving
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I agree that separating the baby would put it more at risk. I would say mandatory breastfeeding for a mother showing symptoms would be more effective, but I can imagine how well that would go over.
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  #25  
October 17th, 2009, 06:15 PM
aussiemummy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess is Write View Post
I agree that separating the baby would put it more at risk. I would say mandatory breastfeeding for a mother showing symptoms would be more effective, but I can imagine how well that would go over.
More risk even if the baby contacted the disease? Would breastfeeding protect the infant from that? I'm not being sarcastic, I really don't know the answer. I know breastfeeding is wonderful and protects the baby from alot of things but from that?
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  #26  
October 17th, 2009, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxfire_ga79 View Post
How is that even legal??
I'm curious about that, too
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  #27  
October 17th, 2009, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiemummy View Post
More risk even if the baby contacted the disease? Would breastfeeding protect the infant from that? I'm not being sarcastic, I really don't know the answer. I know breastfeeding is wonderful and protects the baby from alot of things but from that?
Yep. When the mother is sick, her breastmilk contains antibodies which protect the baby; it's basically a natural vaccine. If the baby did contract H1N1 from her, it would be a very mild case. It would be much, much safer for the baby to immediately start breastfeeding to get those antibodies rather than be reunited with the mother 48 hours later if she's been symptomatic.
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  #28  
October 17th, 2009, 06:30 PM
aussiemummy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess is Write View Post
Yep. When the mother is sick, her breastmilk contains antibodies which protect the baby; it's basically a natural vaccine. If the baby did contract H1N1 from her, it would be a very mild case. It would be much, much safer for the baby to immediately start breastfeeding to get those antibodies rather than be reunited with the mother 48 hours later if she's been symptomatic.
Hmm that is interesting. I didn't know that.
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  #29  
October 17th, 2009, 06:34 PM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiemummy View Post
Hmm that is interesting. I didn't know that.
I had a horrid virus when Ds was 8 weeks - I was on my back two full weeks - the Dr said he didn't want to hospitalize me ONLY because I was BF & he didn't want me to be separated from my baby because my antibodies were protecting him (Dh was sick too - just not as severe as me). Ds never caught it....even though he was basically living in my arms. I absolutely believe there is no reason to not BF a baby just because you are ill unless you are so ill you truly cannot do it (like perhaps dehydrated).
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We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




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  #30  
October 17th, 2009, 06:35 PM
aussiemummy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beck12 View Post
I had a horrid virus when Ds was 8 weeks - I was on my back two full weeks - the Dr said he didn't want to hospitalize me ONLY because I was BF & he didn't want me to be separated from my baby because my antibodies were protecting him (Dh was sick too - just not as severe as me). Ds never caught it....even though he was basically living in my arms. I absolutely believe there is no reason to not BF a baby just because you are ill unless you are so ill you truly cannot do it (like perhaps dehydrated).
After knowing this I wouldn't be separated from my newborn. I thought I could pump and it would be alright. But if there is no need to...

What about formula fed babies though?
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  #31  
October 17th, 2009, 06:46 PM
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That video makes me pretty angry. This is a hospital, it's supposed to be a source of knowledge, the culmination of medical minds...and the best they can come up with is separating a mother and her newborn?
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  #32  
October 17th, 2009, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiemummy View Post
Hmm that is interesting. I didn't know that.
My pediatrician told me the same thing--if mom gets sick, a breastfed baby who contracts the virus will have a much milder form of it.

So it seems that would not be the case for formula fed, and the baby would be better off being separated?

I'm talking in general, not for this specific case of right after delivery. I can't believe a hospital would be so ignorant of the CDC information posted earlier! They need to be better informed.
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  #33  
October 17th, 2009, 08:00 PM
(.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiemummy View Post
After knowing this I wouldn't be separated from my newborn. I thought I could pump and it would be alright. But if there is no need to...

What about formula fed babies though?
CDC Advises Breastfeeding during H1N1 Pandemic: Formula is Added Risk in Swine Flu Epidemic | Suite101.com

Cosleeping and Biological Imperatives: Why Human Babies Do Not and Should Not Sleep Alone Neuroanthropology
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  #34  
October 17th, 2009, 11:47 PM
MissTorrieIfYou'reNasty's Avatar Co-Host of Heated Debates
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beck12 View Post
So someone else taking basically your parental right saway for 48 hrs with your newborn doesn't peek your rage meter? It seems odd to me with what I have seen peek your rage meter at times. I thought you were a pretty strong proponent of parental rights.
It's not taking your parental right away. All hospitals have policies, some different from others. If you have symptoms and you want to deliver elsewhere, you're still free to do so. End of story, life goes on.
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  #35  
October 17th, 2009, 11:57 PM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torrie View Post
It's not taking your parental right away. All hospitals have policies, some different from others. If you have symptoms and you want to deliver elsewhere, you're still free to do so. End of story, life goes on.
And if all hospital institute this policy then you are free to what, either hand over your parental rights or deliver at home unassisted (as many areas do NOT have midwives, like my area...believe me I have tried to find someone to do a home delivery already)? What about those that may not have been aware before they deliver (as the woman in the story), since it wasn't a policy UNTIL she delivered there?

I find it appalling that people believe you don't have a right to healthcare whether you want to follow their exact recommendations or not - that is like a Dr saying he won't give pain meds to a cancer patient who won't take chemo. It oversteps the individual's right to decide what kind of treatment & how much of it they want to accept. What if hospitals just started instituting that they were going to circ all boys born there since there is the new surge in some believing that it will decrease AIDS? Then anyone not wanting a circ & having a boy can find somewhere else to deliver? Really? Maybe then if a boy doesn't have a circ then Dr's don't have to see him or treat him for any issue that may be related to not circing...like if he has a UTI (which I know is still rare in intact boys, but IS a higher rate than in circed boys - unless the parents are willing to agree to get him circed to "fix" it now - perhaps then the Dr doesn't have to deal with it since parents didn't take their recommendations in the first place. How far do we take this idea that you can either choose not to go for medical treatment at all or hand over all control & say-so if you do?
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B - Crazy momma to my two boys
We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




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  #36  
October 18th, 2009, 12:35 AM
MissTorrieIfYou'reNasty's Avatar Co-Host of Heated Debates
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beck12 View Post
And if all hospital institute this policy then you are free to what, either hand over your parental rights or deliver at home unassisted (as many areas do NOT have midwives, like my area...believe me I have tried to find someone to do a home delivery already)? What about those that may not have been aware before they deliver (as the woman in the story), since it wasn't a policy UNTIL she delivered there?

I find it appalling that people believe you don't have a right to healthcare whether you want to follow their exact recommendations or not - that is like a Dr saying he won't give pain meds to a cancer patient who won't take chemo. It oversteps the individual's right to decide what kind of treatment & how much of it they want to accept. What if hospitals just started instituting that they were going to circ all boys born there since there is the new surge in some believing that it will decrease AIDS? Then anyone not wanting a circ & having a boy can find somewhere else to deliver? Really? Maybe then if a boy doesn't have a circ then Dr's don't have to see him or treat him for any issue that may be related to not circing...like if he has a UTI (which I know is still rare in intact boys, but IS a higher rate than in circed boys - unless the parents are willing to agree to get him circed to "fix" it now - perhaps then the Dr doesn't have to deal with it since parents didn't take their recommendations in the first place. How far do we take this idea that you can either choose not to go for medical treatment at all or hand over all control & say-so if you do?
Whoa. Deluge of words.

This is a healthcare for profit nation. Doctors and Hospitals are free to institute policies that insulate them from liability. Sometimes they take this too far. But unless we want costs going out of control, it's what has to be done.

We'll talk again when healthcare is no longer for profit. The system itself is evil, it does evil things. I can't be bothered to care about every bad thing anymore.
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  #37  
October 18th, 2009, 12:49 AM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torrie View Post
Whoa. Deluge of words.

This is a healthcare for profit nation. Doctors and Hospitals are free to institute policies that insulate them from liability. Sometimes they take this too far. But unless we want costs going out of control, it's what has to be done.

We'll talk again when healthcare is no longer for profit. The system itself is evil, it does evil things. I can't be bothered to care about every bad thing anymore.
They already do this though with waivers you are forced to sign. What makes this so different? Why not sign a waiver saying you know you are risking your child being infected by rooming in? Why is that so difficult in THIS situation? They do this already with things like c-section & absolve themselves from liability when accidents (like cutting a baby's face, as was recently in the news) occur?

It is just THEIR excuse that costs will go out of control. As long as they make their recommendations known & you sign a paper that states you are going against recommendations & know it & you take full responsibility - then they have NO reason to think their butts aren't covered. I just can't jive with this being a liability factor.
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B - Crazy momma to my two boys
We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




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  #38  
October 18th, 2009, 12:54 AM
MissTorrieIfYou'reNasty's Avatar Co-Host of Heated Debates
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Originally Posted by beck12 View Post
They already do this though with waivers you are forced to sign. What makes this so different? Why not sign a waiver saying you know you are risking your child being infected by rooming in? Why is that so difficult in THIS situation? They do this already with things like c-section & absolve themselves from liability when accidents (like cutting a baby's face, as was recently in the news) occur?

It is just THEIR excuse that costs will go out of control. As long as they make their recommendations known & you sign a paper that states you are going against recommendations & know it & you take full responsibility - then they have NO reason to think their butts aren't covered. I just can't jive with this being a liability factor.
Waivers are dismissed all the time so people can sue. Waivers are not absolute protection.
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  #39  
October 18th, 2009, 01:01 AM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Originally Posted by Torrie View Post
Waivers are dismissed all the time so people can sue. Waivers are not absolute protection.
"All the time" is a pretty loose statement. My understanding is that they can be set aside in cases that are unusual in outcome. For isntance, say I have H1N1, the baby catches something other than MY virus, my waiver can be set aside because it isn't directly applicable. A c-section waiver can be set aside because the problem that arose is outside the scope of what is a typical complication or mishap. The vast majority of lawsuits are thrown out before they go anywhere because the complication IS directly covered in the waiver & a known risk...so I still don't believe it is the huge liability issue than you are asserting is the motivation. I personally think it is about hype & hysteria & they are just buying into it & promoting it full force.
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B - Crazy momma to my two boys
We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




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  #40  
October 18th, 2009, 01:07 AM
MissTorrieIfYou'reNasty's Avatar Co-Host of Heated Debates
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beck12 View Post
"All the time" is a pretty loose statement. My understanding is that they can be set aside in cases that are unusual in outcome. For isntance, say I have H1N1, the baby catches something other than MY virus, my waiver can be set aside because it isn't directly applicable. A c-section waiver can be set aside because the problem that arose is outside the scope of what is a typical complication or mishap. The vast majority of lawsuits are thrown out before they go anywhere because the complication IS directly covered in the waiver & a known risk...so I still don't believe it is the huge liability issue than you are asserting is the motivation. I personally think it is about hype & hysteria & they are just buying into it & promoting it full force.

My apathy is a combination of fatigue from crappy things our system allows by it's nature and knowing that 48 hours is tiny in the scheme of things. Some of the new hype will have you believing that that whole 48 hours will determine all your parenting. Hell, some people actually argue that they way we are born determines our personality and affects us forever. It's entirely too much pressure for new mothers.
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