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  #1  
October 20th, 2009, 07:49 AM
fluffycheeks's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Background story that made me start thinking of this:

Last night, I was talking in the front yard with my neighbors. The wife is due with her 2nd child any minute. Her husband will be unable to stay overnight with her in the hospital and she has decided to put her baby in the nursery because she's a bit afraid of having him in her room alone. Understandable, but she is feeling a bit guilty. I was trying to make her feel better about her decision, so I was about to tell her that I put my baby in the nursery, and since our hospital is very pro bf'ing, they would automatically bring her the baby every 2-3 hours, so she didn't need to worry about that. All I got out was "Are you planning on breastfeeding?" and was going to tell her the rest, when she and her husband both flew off the handle, raising their voices and listing reasons why she wouldn't be bf'ing, and her husband even pointed to their first son and said that he is "proof positive" why bf'ing isn't neccessary, because he is super smart and healthy. They were seriously on the defensive, and I hadn't said anything, but asked a simple question about their feeding plans. It was very uncomfortable, and I excused myself after about 2 minutes of loud ranting from them. The way they were acting made me think they felt very attacked or something.


So here is my question for the debate: Outside of these boards (and the internet in general), do you think that judgments FF moms feel from BF moms and BF moms feel from FF moms is real, or perceived? FF moms are constantly saying that they feel attacked and judged for bf'ing, and BF moms say they are constantly getting judged for things like NIP. After last night, I'm wondering how real these feelings are, or are they mostly in our heads. I'm sure my neighbor will say she felt attacked and judged, although I feel I did nothing wrong and was not passing any judgement. I think the cases where a woman is buying formula and someone asks her why she is feeding her child rat poison are few and far between. So what do you think?

And on a more personal note - do you think I handled the situation poorly with my neighbor? I've been debating apologizing all morning, but I really don't know what I would be apologizing for.



ETA: For full disclosure, I forgot to put the only other thing I said to her about bf'ing. She's trying for a VBAC, but has a c-section scheduled for Friday. They are estimating that the baby is 7 1/2 - 8 pounds and she said that she won't be able to bf because that sized baby is too heavy to lay across a c-section scar and an 8 pounder is way too big for a football hold. I basically said that is nonsense because I often held my 9 1/2 pounder in a football hold. But this was near the end of our conversation, after all the ranting and "proof positive" junk.

Last edited by fluffycheeks; October 20th, 2009 at 07:53 AM.
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  #2  
October 20th, 2009, 09:31 AM
aussiemummy
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Wow. They sure did fly off the handle, but I imagine that they had been getting alot of flack about not breastfeeding. That's what it seems like anyhow. Sorry you had to be the brunt of their anger.

I really think that alot of it is perceived. People would say things to me and I'd fly off the handle and when I would think about it later, what they said wasn't that bad. I think we're all really defensive when it comes to our parenting decisions, which is why these debates boards get so heated.
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  #3  
October 20th, 2009, 02:02 PM
SusieQ2's Avatar Jersey Girl
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Quote:
ETA: For full disclosure, I forgot to put the only other thing I said to her about bf'ing. She's trying for a VBAC, but has a c-section scheduled for Friday. They are estimating that the baby is 7 1/2 - 8 pounds and she said that she won't be able to bf because that sized baby is too heavy to lay across a c-section scar and an 8 pounder is way too big for a football hold. I basically said that is nonsense because I often held my 9 1/2 pounder in a football hold. But this was near the end of our conversation, after all the ranting and "proof positive" junk.

Read more: http://www.justmommies.com/forums/f3...#ixzz0UVYHiiL5
Wow. Now I wonder if it was a medical professional who fed them that lie or if they made it up themselves to justify not BF.


Ok now here's what I think about the OP. I BF for several months and had to switch to FF. The only person who ever made me feel bad about was ME. I felt guilty even though I didn't have a choice. I knew that BF was better. I hated every moment that that bottle touched my son's lips.

When I had to feed him out in public I was more uncomfortable doing it in public when I was FF than when I was BF. I was afraid people were judging me but they really weren't.

Sure there are some people out there who may be judging a mom who FF but I think just as often the only real judgment women face is from themselves but they don't want to admit that or maybe they don't even realize it. I think a lot of women know that BF is better and then they feel guilty when they choose to FF.
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  #4  
October 20th, 2009, 05:23 PM
TheOtherMichelle's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I think it's both. I think it's quite likely that they were on the receiving end of some nasty comments in the past and are now on the defensive and perceiving insult when there is none.

It's a shame that they have the idea that 7.5 lbs is too heavy to BF. That really makes no sense whatsoever. My daughter was 7 lbs 5 oz and I only held her to BF across my abdomen, I just reclined and didn't hold her directly over the incision or held a pillow between us. I couldn't even comfortably do the football hold or side-lying and it had nothing to do with her weight, just the angle and comfort level.
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  #5  
October 20th, 2009, 05:28 PM
blondie-lox's Avatar Do NOT feed the Troll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donomama View Post
ETA: For full disclosure, I forgot to put the only other thing I said to her about bf'ing. She's trying for a VBAC, but has a c-section scheduled for Friday. They are estimating that the baby is 7 1/2 - 8 pounds and she said that she won't be able to bf because that sized baby is too heavy to lay across a c-section scar and an 8 pounder is way too big for a football hold. I basically said that is nonsense because I often held my 9 1/2 pounder in a football hold. But this was near the end of our conversation, after all the ranting and "proof positive" junk.
WHAT?! That's just sounds ridiculous. My son was 10lbs12oz (HUGE!!) and I had a C Section and he has never had any bottles and was EBF (and still is, other than solids). That's insane to me. I didn't have any problems with holding him to nurse. I used the inverted cradle hold for the first few months of nursing.
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  #6  
October 20th, 2009, 06:58 PM
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TIFF!!!! How long have you been back????!!!
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  #7  
October 20th, 2009, 07:52 PM
fluffycheeks's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Jess!!! How I've missed you, lady! I started coming around again when I got knocked up. I'm due in March.
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  #8  
October 20th, 2009, 08:37 PM
SweetSimpleThings's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I think it's both. Probably more perceived than real, but it's real too.

And I DID have someone comment on my formula purchase The grocery clerk that was ringing it through loudly told me, and everyone else in the line, that formula wasn't very good for babies because no one could make something as good as mother nature. Now, her little fact was, of course, true... but in the moment when you're standing there, feeling like hell because you're buying it in the first place, and hoping to get out of there as quick as you can, and the clerk starts dicussing your formula purchase, it's hard not to feel that you're being judged.

(FTR, I complained to management and asked them if clerks were in the habit of pointing out the negative health benefits of sugar-filled cookies, toxic household cleaners and high-fructose sodas.)
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  #9  
October 20th, 2009, 09:14 PM
chlodoll
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I find that some peoples attitude changes with me when I say I nursed for two years. Even women who did breastfeed but for less time. I never say it in a tone of superiority but its immediately taken as I am now judging you.
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  #10  
October 20th, 2009, 09:53 PM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Christina A~ View Post
I think it's both. Probably more perceived than real, but it's real too.

And I DID have someone comment on my formula purchase The grocery clerk that was ringing it through loudly told me, and everyone else in the line, that formula wasn't very good for babies because no one could make something as good as mother nature. Now, her little fact was, of course, true... but in the moment when you're standing there, feeling like hell because you're buying it in the first place, and hoping to get out of there as quick as you can, and the clerk starts dicussing your formula purchase, it's hard not to feel that you're being judged.

(FTR, I complained to management and asked them if clerks were in the habit of pointing out the negative health benefits of sugar-filled cookies, toxic household cleaners and high-fructose sodas.)
I think that is sooooo out of line. I had a baggage check person tell me that my son was too old to be nursing (I was not checking my pump bag), but was asked what it was, etc...& so she said "awwww good for you, how old is your baby?" I said he just turned two & she immediately made a face & told me that one is too old if you ask her, etc.....blah blah blah...I ripped her a new one about how it is NONE of her business & how ignorant she is on the benefits of BF. I also complained to the airline but got no response. I don't know how an employee of anywhere think it is a good idea to comment on ANYTHING in anyway that isn't positive. At work I am not paid for my opinions, I am paid to make sure our customers are happy with the service they receive....period. So I have lots of clients say things that make my skin crawl, but it isn't the time the place or my right to say anything that isn't positive. I don't have to agree (like I have heard some pretty inflammatory things said - insults to people of various political beliefs, etc) - but I really understand that I am not paid to agree either - but to keep things pleasant & comfortable for the customer. I dont' know why people can't grasp that concept.

I am sorry that witch did that to you - I am sorry that people are so flipping ignorant. THere is no good excuse for it.
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  #11  
October 20th, 2009, 10:25 PM
KimberlyD0
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I think its both

For me it started out VERY real. Comments about how I was feeding my DD garbage, sb par food, poisions, and then the you just needed to try harder or my fav "don't you know how bad it is not to BF your baby? she'll be sicker, stupider and she'll be fat? The nerve of some people.

Because of that I admit when someone approched me about it and said anything remotely related to those things I as more prone to jump down their throat, still am.

I just want to scream at the top of my lung some days that I'm not an idiot and I DO know what I am doing. BUTT OUT!!!

I did have an interesting one at a BF support group though, DD#2 was maybe as month old and I was fighting to to keep going, DD#1 was playing, she wasn't even 3 yet. She's a smart cookie and was doing her ABC's and singing and a few other things. Another mom turns to me, I was BF DD#2 at this point, she had her LO who was about 11 months old, he was BF too. She turns to me and she says

Her: "you must be so proud of her" DD#1
Me: Yes very.
Her "its good to see what BF can do for kids"
Me: I laughed "Oh?"
Her: "she's so tiny, and smart and well mannered"
Me: "Thanks. It was the parenting though not the food. she was formula fed"
Her: "oh.. is that why your Bf that one? so she has a better chance?"
Me "HUH?"
Her "Well you must not have known how good bf was if you wouldn't do that for her. Are you trying to do the right thing now? to make up for it?"
Me: "ah, no, I tried to BF her but was unable to for many reasons. Thanks for rubbing it in my face for me."

I then walked away. I never saw her again, but maybe she'll think twice before doing something so stupid again.

I walked away. That wasn't judgmental at all and I was totally over reacting I am sure
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  #12  
October 21st, 2009, 05:35 AM
TheOtherMichelle's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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^^Good for you! You should have stuck around though to see her backpedal.

Quote:
(FTR, I complained to management and asked them if clerks were in the habit of pointing out the negative health benefits of sugar-filled cookies, toxic household cleaners and high-fructose sodas.)
Good for you, too! What did they say?

I totally agree with Beckie. I can't imagine making comments like that of any nature at work or with a stranger.
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  #13  
October 21st, 2009, 06:57 AM
Jarheadwed's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimberlyD0 View Post
I think its both

For me it started out VERY real. Comments about how I was feeding my DD garbage, sb par food, poisions, and then the you just needed to try harder or my fav "don't you know how bad it is not to BF your baby? she'll be sicker, stupider and she'll be fat? The nerve of some people.

Because of that I admit when someone approched me about it and said anything remotely related to those things I as more prone to jump down their throat, still am.

I just want to scream at the top of my lung some days that I'm not an idiot and I DO know what I am doing. BUTT OUT!!!

I did have an interesting one at a BF support group though, DD#2 was maybe as month old and I was fighting to to keep going, DD#1 was playing, she wasn't even 3 yet. She's a smart cookie and was doing her ABC's and singing and a few other things. Another mom turns to me, I was BF DD#2 at this point, she had her LO who was about 11 months old, he was BF too. She turns to me and she says

Her: "you must be so proud of her" DD#1
Me: Yes very.
Her "its good to see what BF can do for kids"
Me: I laughed "Oh?"
Her: "she's so tiny, and smart and well mannered"
Me: "Thanks. It was the parenting though not the food. she was formula fed"
Her: "oh.. is that why your Bf that one? so she has a better chance?"
Me "HUH?"
Her "Well you must not have known how good bf was if you wouldn't do that for her. Are you trying to do the right thing now? to make up for it?"
Me: "ah, no, I tried to BF her but was unable to for many reasons. Thanks for rubbing it in my face for me."

I then walked away. I never saw her again, but maybe she'll think twice before doing something so stupid again.

I walked away. That wasn't judgmental at all and I was totally over reacting I am sure
Who are these women??? I can't even imagine saying something so rude to someone.
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  #14  
October 21st, 2009, 07:11 AM
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They may have been offended because they felt you asked a question that was none of your business, since it's their choice whether they bf or ff and there's no reason for anyone other than them to care how they nourish their child.
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  #15  
October 21st, 2009, 07:38 AM
~Jess~'s Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Originally Posted by donomama View Post
Jess!!! How I've missed you, lady! I started coming around again when I got knocked up. I'm due in March.
*jumping up and down and shrieking* OMG You're preggers!!!! I"m so excited for you!!! Boy or girl???

I tried to pm you but your pm feature hasn't been activated, when the boards switched over, it deactivated everyone's ability to pm, so now you have to go in and manually enable your pm feature under your CP.

So glad you're back!
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  #16  
October 21st, 2009, 09:10 AM
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When I formula fed I never felt any negative reaction for it. Once I became a breastfeeder though - whewie! I've been told I was sexually abusing my daughter for nursing her so long, that I was doing it for my own selfish reasons, that I forced her to nurse...ect. I have VERY small children. At 3 my daughter is only 25 lbs. At one she was only 15 lbs. I have been told numerous times, by strangers/friends/doctors/ect... that she is so small because I insist on starving her with my breastmilk. Nope! My husband is 5'3 and I'm 5'4, we aren't big people.

Some I see as percieved. If we are out and I'm nursing and I get a dirty look I'll assume it's BECAUSE I'm nursing.
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  #17  
October 21st, 2009, 09:57 AM
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I am sorry but I don't get the argument on it is so personal and secretive. No, I wouldn't just go to complete strangers and ask them if they BF. Why would I? But if you are talking to someone you know or an acquaintance why can't you ask? Is it that big of a deal?? When I decided to BF I didn't mind at all if someone asked me.

Why do you think people are so defensive? Who in the hell cares...it is just conversation. Like saying "what kind of diapers do you use? What kind of baby food do you buy?" Having a baby makes you bonded to others that have babies and people just try to look for common bonds. That is normal.
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  #18  
October 21st, 2009, 07:15 PM
SweetSimpleThings's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Jillian* View Post
I am sorry but I don't get the argument on it is so personal and secretive. No, I wouldn't just go to complete strangers and ask them if they BF. Why would I? But if you are talking to someone you know or an acquaintance why can't you ask? Is it that big of a deal?? When I decided to BF I didn't mind at all if someone asked me.

Why do you think people are so defensive? Who in the hell cares...it is just conversation. Like saying "what kind of diapers do you use? What kind of baby food do you buy?" Having a baby makes you bonded to others that have babies and people just try to look for common bonds. That is normal.
I think people who get defensive are probably people who have gotten grief from friends, family, doctors, etc. (and that goes for both BF or FF) and so when someone else brings it up, they jump to the conclusion that this new person is going in the same direction as the person who was giving them heck.

Probably people who have never felt criticism wouldn't feel defensive at all!
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