Okay, I think I'm understanding your perspective more; that mental illness, etc are like the proverbial "thorn in one's side"? It sounds like what we do agree on is its not the "handicap" that's the issue, but what you make of it.

Exactly. I believe God has complete control over our birthing and pregnancy experiences as well. And yet some women conceive easily and never experience a loss, while some women experience repeated losses. It's the same concept, I think. One women receives repeated losses, one women battles depression, and another losses all of their worldly possessions to a Tornado or a Hurricane. All lead to the thought of "why me?" and "where is God now?" which is kind of the point.

[smsturner]

i think diseases or disorders are from germs, bacteria, viruses, and genetic abnormalities.

[One Frugal Mom]

Originally Posted by ShawnaCAN

Disease is not from God, it's just a product of living in a fallen world. It's not a personal punishment either. The consequence of the first sin is that all of humanity has to contend with disease, death, hunger, etc. When humanity chose to disobey God, they chose to live apart from God. Now we have a way to reconcile our hearts to God and obtain Eternal Life, but the consequence of the first sin (living in a fallen world) still exists. We are in exile in the fallen world until we are made perfect again, as God intended us to be before we bailed on Him and rejected that perfection.

I agree with you Shawna. Illness and death are not from God, but He can and will give us the strength to endure them.

[Electric blue]

While I am not Christian I did some research regarding people who attempted suicide and went to the beyond and returned. Most of these people did go into the light but were told they had to go back and finish their life as suicide is not an escape. A small number reported a journey to Hell but I believe it was a self created thing based on their mental and spiritual state at the time. My favorite read on the case of suicide and near death experiences was Lessons In The Light by a woman named Sarah who attempted suicide by shooting herself. She went into the light and was greeted by a loving being she says was God. She was told she could remain in the light but would eventually have to back to earth(Reincarnate?)and go through the difficulties she tried to run from or she could go back to her body and finish out this life. She chose to come back and wrote a beautiful book regarding what she learned on the otherside. She has since died from the complications of shooting herself. Based upon what I have learned suiciders are not condemned but they also eventually reincarnate and go through the difficulties they ran from but it is more about the natural laws of cause and effect rather than punishment.

[My2miracles]

My God is a forgiving God. Enough said.

[SamuelsMommy]

To the OP: Suicide is a sin just like lying is a sin. God doesn't have different levels of sins. Everyone sins, some more, some less, but regardless, it only takes one sin to be a sinner. If a person believes that Jesus paid for their sins, past, present, future, then there is nothing that they can do to have their salvation (going to heaven) revoked, including committing suicide. Just because we accept salvation, it doesn't mean we will never sin again, that is impossible for our human nature to accomplish. The goal of a Christian is to do their best to do right but we all mess up, some harder than others but God's grace covers that when we accepted that. I guess that was long to say that I believe it depends on whether someone has accepted God's salvation. There will be people who committed suicide in heaven right along with the rest of us who sinned.

[PattiE]

Well, my great aunt had 2 sons who killed themselves, and at the second one's funeral,the preacher-who was Baptist, I believe, said that he would go to heaven bc he had been saved and God knew that he was mentally ill when he made the decision to kill himself and therefore, he could not make a rational decision. I don't know if that is what happens or not, but I would like to believe that is what happens.

[Earth Child]

Originally Posted by Electric blue

While I am not Christian I did some research regarding people who attempted suicide and went to the beyond and returned. Most of these people did go into the light but were told they had to go back and finish their life as suicide is not an escape. A small number reported a journey to Hell but I believe it was a self created thing based on their mental and spiritual state at the time. My favorite read on the case of suicide and near death experiences was Lessons In The Light by a woman named Sarah who attempted suicide by shooting herself. She went into the light and was greeted by a loving being she says was God. She was told she could remain in the light but would eventually have to back to earth(Reincarnate?)and go through the difficulties she tried to run from or she could go back to her body and finish out this life. She chose to come back and wrote a beautiful book regarding what she learned on the otherside. She has since died from the complications of shooting herself. Based upon what I have learned suiciders are not condemned but they also eventually reincarnate and go through the difficulties they ran from but it is more about the natural laws of cause and effect rather than punishment.

That is a very interesting post. It sounds like that woman was supposed to come back for a reason, and the reason being to teach others and help them through a rough time, when she finished this is when god called her home.

Originally Posted by My2miracles

My God is a forgiving God. Enough said.

I like this post!

And since we are on the topic of mental illness. What if the suicide was no caused by the mental illness itself but rather from an antidepressant or other psychological drug.

[Electric blue]

I am not Christian but I have heard of cases of people who tried to commit suicide and went to the beyond and came back. Basically the lessoned learn was suicide is not an escape. People who commit suicide eventually reincarnate and go through the same things they tried to escape from. It is not punishment and no one is condemned,

[Linzie]

I really dont know what to think about the topic. Since as one said, the scriptures basically just infer and dont come right out and say what they mean. But then again, most of the things are infered, and are open to interpretation. I believe thats how the denominations came about.

I dont go to a church anymore, but i do read the Bible and i believe in god and i am a pretty spiritual person. I just dont have the utmost faith in man to really teach exactly what the scriptures say, as so much is open to interpretation. I do believe there are some preachers/ministers/Fathers who are exactly the type of preacher/minister/father they are supposed to be. But my deal is, i dont know what they are doing behind their doors, and i dont want to be taught by a hypocrite.

As to the topic, i was taught (non-demoninational Church of Christ) suicide is basically murder. Murder of oneself, and there is no time to repent for the sin. If you need to repent for something, why do it anyway?

However, i do NOT believe people who contemplate suicide are in a sound mental state, and do not have full mental control. I know this from experience, and still bear the scars and have to see my shame every day. How can someone who doesnt have full mental capabilities be accountable for something they are not in a "right-mind" to fully understand? To me, when someone is in this state, they are basically like a child, not fully aware of the "right and wrong". And according to what ive been taught, children are innocent until they get to an accountable age where they know right from wrong and are fully aware of the rites to go to Heaven (baptism). From the Bible, Jesus wasnt baptised until he was in his 20's or so. (if im wrong on that, someone please correct me as im too tired to go and look it up....) But if someone never reaches that accountability, they never loose their innocence in the eyes of God.

I wonder if someone who goes into that rocky mental state, if they revert back to an innocent child in the eyes of God...

how can anyone KNOW fully?

Im so sorry if this is all jumbled up and noncoherent. I was writing as things came to mind and one thing leads to another and yea... but there is my dollar and a half on the matter.