[KrazE]

I see this BIG TIME in the industry I work in, but I will get to that after seeing what other's think or feel about the question.

Do you think, know, or feel that there is still a wage gap, or even a job role gap between men & women in the workforce these day?

Do you think there are males in an upper-management role that have obvious 'old-school' thinking about a woman's role and tend to not consider female employees for advancement as much as males in the company?

Discuss

[swade66]

Personally no. I make more then most men where I work and I have less education.

It's a no for the 'old-school' thinking management too in fact our regional manager is a woman.

[Fallen2Love]

In my field, I see more gender discrimination then wage-gap (teaching/child care).

As far as wage goes, I think its similar to any other field in regards to pay. I mean, a church preschool wont pay as much as a chain preschool. A center in a high-income area will probably pay more than one in a low-income area. Generally, a higher education and more experience means more pay.

[KrazE]

I suppose I should clarify my original questions.. In the same company, same location (city, town), or the same type of job role.

[Lilmom]

Yes. It exists where I work and it IRKs the crap out of me. I work with two men both of whom have less responsibility than I do. Up until 2009 not only did they get paid way more than me, but they had a higher title too. In 2009 they fixed the title and gave me a raise... but I still don't make as much as them. It's really not right. If I ask I'm told they've worked there longer or they have worked longer (are older than me) but in my book bottom line is the job responsibilities and what we do. Our jobs are the same, only I have more responsibility (I'm held accountable for a lot more)... but I make less. Also, now that I'm knocked up I get more or less treated like crapola. They treat me like I'm half simple. Seriously. Thats a government contractor for ya, full of good ol boys.

[Fallen2Love]

Originally Posted by KrazE

I suppose I should clarify my original questions.. In the same company, same location (city, town), or the same type of job role.

Not sure if this was for me or not!
At my location - everything is very equal among me and my coworkers. There is a clearly defined pay scale, and very detailed job description.
Across the city - depends on the type of school how much (or little) your pay is for the same responsibilities.

In my field, men are mostly excluded or looked over because parents don't trust a man in child care. So most places don't look very hard at male applicants. So its hard to identify a job role gap or wage role gap in my field as a whole. I've never had a male coworker in my field (there was a male owner - but rarely saw him). I've had 2 male classmates since 2006 in my degree specific program. Out of my classmates when discussing the subject, only a handful had a male coworker. Which is why i said its more gender discrimination and/or lack of male interest in early childhood field as a whole.

Originally Posted by KrazE

I see this BIG TIME in the industry I work in, but I will get to that after seeing what other's think or feel about the question.

Do you think, know, or feel that there is still a wage gap, or even a job role gap between men & women in the workforce these day?

Do you think there are males in an upper-management role that have obvious 'old-school' thinking about a woman's role and tend to not consider female employees for advancement as much as males in the company?

Discuss

Yes.

A boss once told my mother that she didn't need a raise because she had a husband at home to provide for her, and then gave the raise to her co-worker who had the SAME position and yet had worse job evaluations score. This happened in the mid 1990s, so it's not like it was 30 years ago when the wage gap and gender discrimination was more... "in the open". My only experience with this is the court system and law enforcement (as I know these fields more intimately than others), and law enforcement is DEFINITELY an area where gender discrimination, wages and job roles are still very much alive. In the United States, women make up nearly 50% of the job force - in law enforcement they make up just TWELVE percent. For a further break down, federal is 14%, state is roughly 11%, and for local law enforcement women make up just a mere EIGHT percent. Clearly an issue. There have been many cases where women are not given the same advancement opportunities in law enforcement merely because they have a vagina, even though studies have shown that women in supervisory (and line) positions can perform their jobs just as well, if not better in some aspects, than men.

The glass ceiling still exists in many industries. Also women still make only 77 cents to the dollar that men make, overall (though there are some exceptions, generally women make less than men for the SAME position). Gender discrimination and wage gaps are not acceptable and should never ever be tolerated, nor should it be assumed it doesn't exist. As a woman trying to get into a VERY male-dominated field, I find it disgusting that value is placed more on a person's genitalia than their job skills. The male cop who abuses his position can get a supervisory position easier than the best female cop in the country depending on the agency merely because the man has a penis and the woman has a vagina and so the woman just can't possibly be a good officer or supervisor just because she doesn't have a penis. Ugh. Don't get me started, I could go on for days about this subject.

[KrazE]

I've been busy so I guess I better respond to my own stuff

There is a HUGE gap in the industry I work in (Technology). Even though I do the job of 4 people (I kid you not... they laid people off and their roles were given to me) I certainly do not make any more money, I have no clear defined role and I don't get paid what I should considering my job function.

What annoys me the most is that my boss is still quite old school and has been caught using phrases like 'the girl' which has even had him spoken to by HR, but alas it continues. Also, when there is something technical that needs answers, he will ask one of the males, who will come to me for the answer, and then take that answer back to wherever as though it was their response all along.

I am the only one in the entire building who is MCSE certified (Microsoft Certified System Engineer) and I have been since 2005, but just because I'm female, I'm treated as though I know nothing.

I'm raising 4 children, but I rarely take time away from work, meanwhile the males who have 1 or 2 seem to have to be off constantly for things, or they are on their personal cell phones with a wife, girlfriend, babysitter or some other child care centre dealing with one thing or another.

I find that for the majority in Canada, nothing has changed and the mindset is only halfway between women staying home to raise babies, and women working in part-time menial jobs while a man brings home the bacon.

[DollBabyKG]

All growing up, my Mom was telling me about the "old boys' clubs," the glass ceiling, men getting higher pay and more opportunity than women, and I fought against her tooth and nail, telling her that it wasn't that way anymore, things had changed, etc.

When I was in nursing there was a gender gap, but it was more women than men.

When I switched to medicine, I thought there would be a huge gender gap, and I'd be the minority gender, but honestly, it's pretty 50/50 in my program. However, some older physicians definitely have some negative attitudes about women in competitive specialties, especially mothers. I was at a seminar recently, among other pre-med students give by a surgeon who was also the head of the largest surgical group in the state. The guys in the meeting were asking things that, in my opinion, didn't require any thought whatsoever, nor did it show their insight for the profession in the least ("What's the coolest case you've ever done," "How much money will I make"). When I asked a very detailed, educated question (I was the only woman to ask a question), his attitude and response shocked me to my core.

I asked the following question: "I know that there has been a negative reception in the profession with regard to the implementation of the 80 hour work week for residents, and its impact on the quality of physicians entering the work force. There has been recent talk about further limiting the resident work week to 57 hours. Do you feel that the reduction to 80 hours has impacted the quality of the surgeons you're training, and/or hiring? And do you feel that further limiting work hours to 57 hours would have a negative impact on the profession as a whole? In your opinion, would this require lengthening surgical residencies from 5 years to 7?"

His COMPLETELY patronizing answer was as follows:
"Actually, I think the biggest problem facing our surgical specialty, and impacting the caliber of work we can put out is the increasing number of female surgeons who want shorter work hours and less call so they can spend more time with their family, and less time with their patients."

I was DUMBFOUNDED. I honestly did not know what to say, as a Mother, myself, one who hoped to go into surgery. I think I was MOST shocked that my Mom had been right all along, and I was the naive one with my head in the sand.

I choose to believe that my experience as a mother is an ASSET to my future medical career, but apparently not many practicing surgeons share the sentiment.

[Lilmom]

Originally Posted by KrazE

I've been busy so I guess I better respond to my own stuff

There is a HUGE gap in the industry I work in (Technology). Even though I do the job of 4 people (I kid you not... they laid people off and their roles were given to me) I certainly do not make any more money, I have no clear defined role and I don't get paid what I should considering my job function.

What annoys me the most is that my boss is still quite old school and has been caught using phrases like 'the girl' which has even had him spoken to by HR, but alas it continues. Also, when there is something technical that needs answers, he will ask one of the males, who will come to me for the answer, and then take that answer back to wherever as though it was their response all along.

I am the only one in the entire building who is MCSE certified (Microsoft Certified System Engineer) and I have been since 2005, but just because I'm female, I'm treated as though I know nothing.

I'm raising 4 children, but I rarely take time away from work, meanwhile the males who have 1 or 2 seem to have to be off constantly for things, or they are on their personal cell phones with a wife, girlfriend, babysitter or some other child care centre dealing with one thing or another.

I find that for the majority in Canada, nothing has changed and the mindset is only halfway between women staying home to raise babies, and women working in part-time menial jobs while a man brings home the bacon.

I hate being treated like an idiot. I have a masters degree and I've been working for 8 years past that. Yet my male supervisor (who is a PhD) treats me like a moron while constantly elevating this guy who is quite unknowledgeable and has a degree in friggin BOTONY. HE repeatedly attmepts to set me up for failure by giving me projects that are already a lost cause, or have already been screwed up by someone else and gives this guy any project thats a "sure thing". Our boss is a woman, but if I say anything to her I just come across as paranoid. My supervisor never listens to me and on the many occasions that he should have I get accused of "gloating" while when it's one of my male coworkers who did something "good" they get a kudos. I'm so friggin tried of this.

[TheOtherMichelle]

It's not something I have experienced.

I have worked in various retail jobs, and while the higher level positions within the company seem to be more male-dominated (I'm talking district manager and above) I'm really not sure because I had very little interaction with those at that level. On the individual store level, the management positions seemed pretty equal, actually. I have no idea what they earned.

In my current field, I work in alternative medicine and at my school the females vastly outnumbered the males. Pretty much for us, we have to work for ourselves, so any earning potential is up to us. There may be a gender-bias in the field, but I could see that going either way depending upon the individuals seeking care (ie males being sought out because they are perceived by some as knowing "more", or females being sought out by other females).

I also teach college part time, and while most of the other instructors are male, nearly all of the administration at my campus are female and all of the people in higher positions above that are female, too. So it would seem that here there is a bias for women.

Also, thinking of my husband's job, from the people that he's talked about, the higher management positions seem to be held nearly equal by males and females (this is local government). I guess a lot depends on the field but maybe a lot has to do with your region as well.

[**Badfish**]

Originally Posted by irishxrose

Yes.

A boss once told my mother that she didn't need a raise because she had a husband at home to provide for her, and then gave the raise to her co-worker who had the SAME position and yet had worse job evaluations score. This happened in the mid 1990s, so it's not like it was 30 years ago when the wage gap and gender discrimination was more... "in the open". My only experience with this is the court system and law enforcement (as I know these fields more intimately than others), and law enforcement is DEFINITELY an area where gender discrimination, wages and job roles are still very much alive. In the United States, women make up nearly 50% of the job force - in law enforcement they make up just TWELVE percent. For a further break down, federal is 14%, state is roughly 11%, and for local law enforcement women make up just a mere EIGHT percent. Clearly an issue. There have been many cases where women are not given the same advancement opportunities in law enforcement merely because they have a vagina, even though studies have shown that women in supervisory (and line) positions can perform their jobs just as well, if not better in some aspects, than men.

The glass ceiling still exists in many industries. Also women still make only 77 cents to the dollar that men make, overall (though there are some exceptions, generally women make less than men for the SAME position). Gender discrimination and wage gaps are not acceptable and should never ever be tolerated, nor should it be assumed it doesn't exist. As a woman trying to get into a VERY male-dominated field, I find it disgusting that value is placed more on a person's genitalia than their job skills. The male cop who abuses his position can get a supervisory position easier than the best female cop in the country depending on the agency merely because the man has a penis and the woman has a vagina and so the woman just can't possibly be a good officer or supervisor just because she doesn't have a penis. Ugh. Don't get me started, I could go on for days about this subject.

Complete derail (sorry guys): DCSO does not have the wide gender gap you see with other agencies (I don't think). Of everyone I worked with there (granted it was mostly PIOs and detectives), it was probably pretty close to 50/50. When I was wavering on whether I wanted to go into law enforcement or stick with journalism, they were pretty amazing. The Pattern Crimes Unit took me out and the lieutenant I rode with literally spent the entire night answering my questions and reassuring me that being a small female made absolutely no difference. Every single person I know in that agency was extremely supportive, not just of me but of female law enforcement officers in general.

I know you're in the middle of everything with ACSO, but seriously consider DCSO, too. If I could pick an agency for you, it would be a police department because the politics in a sheriff's office can get tiring, but you're going into corrections before getting your POST certification, right?

(Ack. That turned into a novel. Sorry again! We can probably talk about this somewhere else. Haha!)

Originally Posted by Jess is Write

Complete derail (sorry guys): DCSO does not have the wide gender gap you see with other agencies (I don't think). Of everyone I worked with there (granted it was mostly PIOs and detectives), it was probably pretty close to 50/50. When I was wavering on whether I wanted to go into law enforcement or stick with journalism, they were pretty amazing. The Pattern Crimes Unit took me out and the lieutenant I rode with literally spent the entire night answering my questions and reassuring me that being a small female made absolutely no difference. Every single person I know in that agency was extremely supportive, not just of me but of female law enforcement officers in general.

I know you're in the middle of everything with ACSO, but seriously consider DCSO, too. If I could pick an agency for you, it would be a police department because the politics in a sheriff's office can get tiring, but you're going into corrections before getting your POST certification, right?

(Ack. That turned into a novel. Sorry again! We can probably talk about this somewhere else. Haha!)

Oh wow, thank you so much for that Jess! If ACSO doesn't work out, I will definitely consider DCSO. I'm going for the detention deputy position right now since ACSO will pay for POST certification (which is $4900 to get at a college) if I can pass the testing for it in a year; and I can't afford $4900 right now or else I'd just get POST and try out for a few of the agencies around that don't require you to go through their academy, like Littleton or Englewood. Hmmm....

[**Badfish**]

DCSO will pay for your POST too after a year in the jail.

Sweet! I will definitely keep checking them out then while I wait for ACSO to make up their mind on whether they want to hire me or not. *writes down DCSO on list of "Drika's Potential Agencies To Work For"*

[swade66]

Originally Posted by KrazE

I've been busy so I guess I better respond to my own stuff

There is a HUGE gap in the industry I work in (Technology). Even though I do the job of 4 people (I kid you not... they laid people off and their roles were given to me) I certainly do not make any more money, I have no clear defined role and I don't get paid what I should considering my job function.

What annoys me the most is that my boss is still quite old school and has been caught using phrases like 'the girl' which has even had him spoken to by HR, but alas it continues. Also, when there is something technical that needs answers, he will ask one of the males, who will come to me for the answer, and then take that answer back to wherever as though it was their response all along.

I am the only one in the entire building who is MCSE certified (Microsoft Certified System Engineer) and I have been since 2005, but just because I'm female, I'm treated as though I know nothing.

I'm raising 4 children, but I rarely take time away from work, meanwhile the males who have 1 or 2 seem to have to be off constantly for things, or they are on their personal cell phones with a wife, girlfriend, babysitter or some other child care centre dealing with one thing or another.

I find that for the majority in Canada, nothing has changed and the mindset is only halfway between women staying home to raise babies, and women working in part-time menial jobs while a man brings home the bacon.

See now this is my second job in technology and it has been the same at both places. The first place there was only one 'guy' on my team doing the same thing I did and we made the same $$. At the new place I make more then some of the guys and have less education...they have all been to college and I haven't at all.

[TheOtherMichelle]

How do you guys know what your co-workers make?

[KrazE]

I know what everyone in my location makes because I'm also responsible for the overall financial data - I suppose that could be considered someone else's job too, which makes me doing the job of 5 people!

I make $2.54 less per hour than an employee that works FOR me and who is male - just to make a point of how pathetic it is around here.