[Jess is Write]

Originally Posted by Fergy

Actually, Benjamin Franklin did NOT found the first hospital, he helped found it. It was NOT funded by the state because there was no such thing as a state back then. PRIVATE DONORS gave money to start the hospital and the doctors lived there because they were NOT paid. This country was founded like you said but not at the expense of taxpayers but rather at the expense of willing donors. Being funded on Charity and being funded on taxes are VERY different.

The point I was making was that one of our founding fathers strongly believed in providing health care to every citizen, hence founding the first hospital in this country. I'm not sure it matters that he founded it with a doctor...? He still founded it. You neglected to address my point about the colonies paying for the care and burials of settlers who needed it. The poorhouses which housed the sick and provided care were essentially government ran.

[foxfire_ga79]

I wish I knew the math on medical costs. How much of the $1000 a night goes to the nurses who will be doing rounds, lab work, housekeeping, water and electrical use? I know it's a lot, I really wish I knew the COST of keeping a patient over night.

[Jess is Write]

Originally Posted by foxfire_ga79

I wish I knew the math on medical costs. How much of the $1000 a night goes to the nurses who will be doing rounds, lab work, housekeeping, water and electrical use? I know it's a lot, I really wish I knew the COST of keeping a patient over night.

My hospital bill from Cooper's birth was itemized. The room (JUST the room, everything else was billed as a separate line item) was $999/night.

[Banned-Fergy]

Originally Posted by Jess is Write

The point I was making was that one of our founding fathers strongly believed in providing health care to every citizen, hence founding the first hospital in this country. I'm not sure it matters that he founded it with a doctor...? He still founded it. You neglected to address my point about the colonies paying for the care and burials of settlers who needed it. The poorhouses which housed the sick and provided care were essentially government ran.

He believed in providing health care to the poor by charity. I don't know anyone who is against poor getting health care because they are poor. Colonies paid for those "services" by way of PRIVATE DONORS. I'm sure you looked up that colonies paid for them but didn't see exactly how the colonies got the money to pay for them. They were not government ran, they were charity run. Big difference.

I also see that you neglected to address every other point I made in my post.

[Jess is Write]

Originally Posted by Fergy

He believed in providing health care to the poor by charity. I don't know anyone who is against poor getting health care because they are poor. Colonies paid for those "services" by way of PRIVATE DONORS. I'm sure you looked up that colonies paid for them but didn't see exactly how the colonies got the money to pay for them. They were not government ran, they were charity run. Big difference.

I was under the impression that it was colonial leaders doing the organizing. I didn't look up anything. I was pulling from an American history class I took years ago, so I'm probably wrong. Regardless, the only point I was trying to make was that our founding fathers were involved in providing health care (it doesn't really make a difference to me where the money was coming from) and I was making that point in direct response to the claim that government involvement in health care goes against everything this country was founded on.

Originally Posted by Fergy

I also see that you neglected to address every other point I made in my post.

That's because I didn't really disagree with any of your other points. I've already said I don't think the government we have in place can implement UHC. I think they've demonstrated that fantastically over the past couple of months.

[glasscandie]

Originally Posted by Jess is Write

Companies that provide health care should be forced to take less! The costs of health care are so ridiculously inflated that I'm comfortable using the word extortion. Charging a patient $25 for a single Tylenol is not okay. Neither is charging a patient $1,000 PER NIGHT for a hospital room. The reason every other industrialized country can afford UHC is because providers aren't charging an asinine amount for care.

I'm not agreeing with the PRACTICE, I'm saying it's not going to happen unless the entire medical industry is revamped.

[Jess is Write]

Originally Posted by OceanChild

I'm not agreeing with the PRACTICE, I'm saying it's not going to happen unless the entire medical industry is revamped.

Alright, then I guess I was just confused about why you seemed to be against providers being paid less in your previous post.

[Banned-Fergy]

Originally Posted by Jess is Write

I was under the impression that it was colonial leaders doing the organizing. I didn't look up anything. I was pulling from an American history class I took years ago, so I'm probably wrong. Regardless, the only point I was trying to make was that our founding fathers were involved in providing health care (it doesn't really make a difference to me where the money was coming from) and I was making that point in direct response to the claim that government involvement in health care goes against everything this country was founded on.

I don't think it's bad to have the government involved somewhat. Suggesting people give their money to charity hospitals and offering a dollar for dollar deduction isn't something I'm against. I know you weren't making the post in response to me but I wanted to clarify my stance.

That's because I didn't really disagree with any of your other points. I've already said I don't think the government we have in place can implement UHC. I think they've demonstrated that fantastically over the past couple of months.

Oh ok, gotcha. Only difference is I think they've demonstrated they are incapable for much longer than a couple of months, more like a few decades.

[glasscandie]

Originally Posted by Jess is Write

Alright, then I guess I was just confused about why you seemed to be against providers being paid less in your previous post.

No, my point was that for something like Tricare to work on a US-scale level, companies would have to accept getting paid less for their services, which would never happen. Military health insurance works by companies getting contracts with the gov't which are lucrative and usually involve things like research money, etc. but the trade-off is that they accept much less money for the services they provide. When we get notification of a bill being squared away, it'll say something like, Billed $600, Paid $100. Because of the previous issues I mentioned with politicians and the health industry companies, there is no way that this would happen for every health company in the U.S. I don't believe even raising taxes on the very rich would pay for a system like that; and the gov't mishandles military health insurance fantastically because they drop so much money into it (and it's not a perfect system - military service members get screwed by having to see people at the base clinic, which sucks horribly).

[rachna]

Originally Posted by Jess is Write

Alright, then I guess I was just confused about why you seemed to be against providers being paid less in your previous post.

The problem is that what providers BILL is not what providers get PAID. For example, an hour of therapy with me costs you 100 dollars an hour. I am cheap, actually, most people here charge around 120 an hour. Insurance companies pay me about 60 an hour. But lets say I only charge 60? Well the insurance company will say "hmmm...lets pay her 30!" So I HAVE to overcharge

Then comes the real issue. A client comes in without insurance. It is ILLEGAL for me to charge them less then my rate. I can do the "sliding scale thing" but there are limitations to it, and it is considered FRAUD for me to not charge them 100 dollars an hour like everyone else! So who can afford basically 52k a year for therapy?

Quite honestly insurance companies need to pay some providers (therapists!!!) better rates, and stop creating policies which FORCE us to inflate our rates to ridiculous levels.

[TheOtherMichelle]

Originally Posted by rachna

The problem is that what providers BILL is not what providers get PAID. For example, an hour of therapy with me costs you 100 dollars an hour. I am cheap, actually, most people here charge around 120 an hour. Insurance companies pay me about 60 an hour. But lets say I only charge 60? Well the insurance company will say "hmmm...lets pay her 30!" So I HAVE to overcharge

Then comes the real issue. A client comes in without insurance. It is ILLEGAL for me to charge them less then my rate. I can do the "sliding scale thing" but there are limitations to it, and it is considered FRAUD for me to not charge them 100 dollars an hour like everyone else! So who can afford basically 52k a year for therapy?

Quite honestly insurance companies need to pay some providers (therapists!!!) better rates, and stop creating policies which FORCE us to inflate our rates to ridiculous levels.

Agreed.. I was going to make a similar post but you already took care of it!

I can't decide which side I'm on in this debate. I'm not against UHC, but I think that those arguing against it for logistical reasons have compelling arguments. Currently, I would like to see some kind of insurance and malpractice reform before we completely overhaul the system.

Originally Posted by TheOtherMichelle

I'm not against UHC, but I think that those arguing against it for logistical reasons have compelling arguments. Currently, I would like to see some kind of insurance and malpractice reform before we completely overhaul the system.

I think Courtney really nailed this for me. I posted in like page 3 or 4 the taxes we Cdn's pay then later the taxes the US pays. I couldn't believe how much taxes Americans were paying. I know it's been said some people are paying anywhere from $1200-$2500 a. month. for health insurance. I don't honestly understand what is going on the US. I don't understand how people survive because that's not including food, car, rent/mortgage or fun stuff. Also, if people aren't getting UHC &/or emergency services, I just don't understand how the people have put up with all of this. God forbid there is a legal case. I just don't understand the American system. If their gov't's are that inept, I can understand why UHC would be something to be afraid of.

[foxfire_ga79]

Originally Posted by (.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.)

If their gov't's are that inept, I can understand why UHC would be something to be afraid of.

Now you're getting it!

[TheOtherMichelle]

Yeah we are ridiculously lucky to only pay 300-400 a month for the 3 of us and no deductible. I just became eligible for benefits at my new job and the cheapest plan was twice that amount for just me and dd, and had a huge deductible.

I'm just afraid that the transition to UHC itself will be such a mess that it would be better to at least try other solutions first. Plus we could try putting more emphasis on preventative care and lifestyle (ie better diet and exercise to prevent weight-related diseases) which would drastically lower health care spending. The way I see it our entire way of life is bonkers. We work harder than many other countries so we can afford health care; meanwhile we are stressed, then eating crap fast food because we don't have the time to cook decent meals, all of which makes us sicker and sicker, and needing more money to spend on healthcare that in many cases is entirely preventable.

I should back away from that soapbox before I get going.. lol

Originally Posted by foxfire_ga79

Now you're getting it!

No I really don't. I get why you're scared but I have asked over and over why the fear of gov't and lack of gov't involvement. I don't understand why citizens would allow this status quo to happen in all areas of their gov't. Man I'm the last person here that should be defending UHC but even I get that just because I don't like something means I don't have to lose it all to get one or two things changed. I work within the system. I went to the proper channels to get my concerns out there. The result? Midwifes are now funded in my province. I don't understand what is stopping the US from doing the same? You guys are educated and have systems in place to start working with. You even have guns to overthrow your gov't. Why the lack of change and why the fear of the gov't? No one should be afraid of their own gov't.

[Banned-Fergy]

Originally Posted by (.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.)

No I really don't. I get why you're scared but I have asked over and over why the fear of gov't and lack of gov't involvement. I don't understand why citizens would allow this status quo to happen in all areas of their gov't. Man I'm the last person here that should be defending UHC but even I get that just because I don't like something means I don't have to lose it all to get one or two things changed. I work within the system. I went to the proper channels to get my concerns out there. The result? Midwifes are now funded in my province. I don't understand what is stopping the US from doing the same? You guys are educated and have systems in place to start working with. You even have guns to overthrow your gov't. Why the lack of change and why the fear of the gov't? No one should be afraid of their own gov't.

Bolded: I agree. "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny. When the government fear the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson

Canada is much different from the US. Tell a Native American to go through the proper channels to get things changed on the reservation they live. They will laugh in your face.

Originally Posted by Fergy

Tell a Native American to go through the proper channels to get things changed on the reservation they live. They will laugh in your face.

Do I ever agree with this.

[foxfire_ga79]

Guns to overthrow our government? My turn to laugh in someone's face. You pull a gun on any government official and you've signed your own death warrant. If someone does work up the (psychotic) balls to try a violent government strike it ends up being a terror act like Oklahoma. And those guys got executed. Yea, I totally see me storming any government building with guns blazing.

A friend of mine was just telling me last week that people were trying to reform home birth legislation in Georgia, until the ACOG lobbied to stop it.
I feel extremely hopeless about our government. I hate my sheriff, he's a bumbling idiot IMO who has employed several other royal idiots. I've tried to get justice for a few things, to no avail. There's no way to vote him out. He's been incumbent so long nobody even bothers to run against him anymore.
On a bigger level, it's been pure hell trying to get child support enforced against my ex husband. I request a review and modification because he wasn't paying enough, 6 years had passed and he got a much better job. It took 6 months for them to finish the paper work, in that amount of time my ex moved to a different county. Child support had to transfer my file to another district. It got lost for 2 months. In those 2 months the original paperwork expired and I had to start all over again. More months pass and they make another decision. Ex moves a few more times and the sheriff's office can never find him to get him served. Ex moves to Virginia. So here we are nearly 2 years since I started this nightmare. Finally my ex agreed to an amount that he and I came up with together, so he didn't end up having to get served. It took 2 more months after we agreed for child support to get the paperwork filed in October, and I just got the papers in the mail 2 weeks ago.
In that time I called every phone number I had for them, I visited several of their offices. I called and spoke with the representatives for Governor Purdue and was referred to another state department. NOTHING ever came of it. Child support division did not care that we were falling further and further behind in our bills because they were not making my ex pay for his children.
On the other hand, last year I read about a man in Atlanta who is stuck paying off $10,000 in child support for a kid that isn't even his, as proven by a DNA paternity test.

There's a saying here, "you can't fight city hall." So we have the power to vote out someone that pisses us off. All politicians are the same. They will serve themselves as long as they can and big deal if they get voted out because their benefits are for life.

What do you suggest we do to make the government listen to us? Besides shoot them? I have kids, I don't have time to be dead or imprisoned for life.

[frgsonmysox]

Originally Posted by OceanChild

No, my point was that for something like Tricare to work on a US-scale level, companies would have to accept getting paid less for their services, which would never happen. Military health insurance works by companies getting contracts with the gov't which are lucrative and usually involve things like research money, etc. but the trade-off is that they accept much less money for the services they provide. When we get notification of a bill being squared away, it'll say something like, Billed $600, Paid $100. Because of the previous issues I mentioned with politicians and the health industry companies, there is no way that this would happen for every health company in the U.S. I don't believe even raising taxes on the very rich would pay for a system like that; and the gov't mishandles military health insurance fantastically because they drop so much money into it (and it's not a perfect system - military service members get screwed by having to see people at the base clinic, which sucks horribly).

I don't see it as getting screwed. I've never had an issue getting the care I needed, nor my kids, nor my husband - and again, we can do so without going broke. Right now my PCM is basically a middle man writing referrals for me to see specialists, free of charge, outside the base.

[glasscandie]

Originally Posted by frgsonmysox

I don't see it as getting screwed. I've never had an issue getting the care I needed, nor my kids, nor my husband - and again, we can do so without going broke. Right now my PCM is basically a middle man writing referrals for me to see specialists, free of charge, outside the base.

OK, then you've been lucky in the bases you've been assigned to. Kimbrough at Fort Meade sucks, as does the base clinic at Goodfellow AFB in Texas, as well as the clinic at the Defense Language Institute in Monterey, CA. This is my experience. My DD and I get to go off base for care, DH does not.