Log In Sign Up

Gerber Good Start Formula Commerical


Forum: Heated Debates

Notices

Welcome to the JustMommies Message Boards.

We pride ourselves on having the friendliest and most welcoming forums for moms and moms to be! Please take a moment and register for free so you can be a part of our growing community of mothers. If you have any problems registering please drop an email to boards@justmommies.com.

Our community is moderated by our moderation team so you won't see spam or offensive messages posted on our forums. Each of our message boards is hosted by JustMommies hosts, whose names are listed at the top each board. We hope you find our message boards friendly, helpful, and fun to be on!

Reply Post New Topic
  Subscribe To Heated Debates LinkBack Topic Tools Search this Topic Display Modes
  #21  
June 8th, 2010, 06:48 PM
Tofu Bacon
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by blondie-lox View Post
Why are these sources not good enough for you? Why isn't the example Jess gave you about China good enough for you? What happened in China can just as easily happen in North America.
Actually, the tainted formula did effect North America, because the formula was also sold in Asian markets in the US and Canada.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
June 8th, 2010, 06:50 PM
KimberlyD0
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofu Bacon View Post
your link isn't working..

Quote:
Originally Posted by blondie-lox View Post
Why are these sources not good enough for you? Why isn't the example Jess gave you about China good enough for you? What happened in China can just as easily happen in North America.
Because non of these studies has a single child attached to support those claims. Anyone can do a study and make a claim, but where are these children? if that many babies were dieing directly from formula then we would see those cases. Parents would be out for blood.


I already said why China doesn't count. China is a really bad example because there regulatory systems are no where near the level of Canada or the US.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofu Bacon View Post
Actually, the tainted formula did effect North America, because the formula was also sold in Asian markets in the US and Canada.
True, but those sales were illigal and it was still the formula from China which is not to the US regulation standards. If they had been using amarican formula then the babies wouldn't have been effected.


No one has yet shown a single child who has untainted formula, made and manufactured properly in the US or Canada who died directly from the use of formula.

Thats what I am asking for. I'm actually not trying to be smart, I really want to know where they're getting these numbers from. Like that one (can't remember who did it) that stated 900 babies would be saved in the US by using formula, well if 900 babies died a year directly as a result of properly used and manufactured formula, where are these babies? How is it no one has ever heard of any of these babies?

The way I see it.. Formula in of itself doesn't kill. Its not poison in of itself. So it doesn't just randomly kill children. No more then a food allergy would should there be a allergy issue, because thats not the norm. Improperly used formula, formula not up to regulations, formula tained with something that would not be normally in formula, those are what kills.

Last edited by KimberlyD0; June 8th, 2010 at 06:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
June 8th, 2010, 06:52 PM
blondie-lox's Avatar Do NOT feed the Troll
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ON, Canada
Posts: 16,621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofu Bacon View Post
Actually, the tainted formula did effect North America, because the formula was also sold in Asian markets in the US and Canada.
Ding ding ding!

I didn't know this. Thanks for posting that.
__________________

Huge thanks to *Kiliki* for the FANTABULOUS new siggy!!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
June 8th, 2010, 06:58 PM
KimberlyD0
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by blondie-lox View Post
Ding ding ding!

I didn't know this. Thanks for posting that.
Again though these were illegally sold in the US and smuggled into the country in fact. They would never have passed customs.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
June 8th, 2010, 07:01 PM
Tofu Bacon
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by KimberlyD0 View Post
your link isn't working..
It works for me, but here's the gist:

Quote:
The US
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
recently reported an outbreak
of Enterobacter sakazakii infection associated
with the use of powdered infant
formula in a neonatal intensive care unit
(NICU).1

The index case in the outbreak was a
male infant born at 33.5 weeks who was
admitted to the NICU because of prematurely
low birth weight and respiratory
distress. The infant developed fever,
tachycardia, decreased vascular perfusions
and suspected seizure activity at 11
days. Culture of cerebrospinal fluid
(CSF) grew E. sakazakii. Intravenous antibiotics
for meningitis were administered,
but the infant died 9 days later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KimberlyD0 View Post
Again though these were illegally sold in the US and smuggled into the country in fact. They would never have passed customs.
Unfortunately, being illegal doesn't do much to protect the people who unknowingly purchase counterfeit infant formula or formula being illegally sold in an Asian market. Illegal or not, it does effect North America.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
June 8th, 2010, 07:12 PM
KimberlyD0
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofu Bacon View Post
It works for me, but here's the gist:




Unfortunately, being illegal doesn't do much to protect the people who unknowingly purchase counterfeit infant formula or formula being illegally sold in an Asian market. Illegal or not, it does effect North America.
I would love to see the whole thing, but its not working. This is the first and only time I've ever seen a story like that. THATS what I am asking for. No one has ever provided an actual case to back up the statement.

on the second, its unfortunite that people would be stupid enough to do that. Its sad that babies died.

I was just trying to get a feel for actually cases. So there is one. Are there others to support it or was it an isolated event?
Reply With Quote
  #27  
June 8th, 2010, 07:50 PM
Tofu Bacon
Guest
Posts: n/a
Oh good Lord, you asked for at least a single case, and there it is. Let's not forget about the severe illness and permanent damage that these pathogens can cause in infants, not just death. For this specific bacteria, meningitis or bacteremia is pretty much inevitable, and the case/fatality rate is 50%.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
June 8th, 2010, 07:59 PM
**Badfish**'s Avatar Worth Saving
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 7,141
Cori's link works just fine for me, too. And Kimberly, are you referring to our standards that allow amounts of rocket fuel to be distributed in formula? Did you know that the agencies we trust to protect us wouldn't even tell us which brands the fuel was in?

I'm also confused about why you don't trust peer-reviewed studies. Each case in those studies is an actual child from the sample. They don't just arbitrarily make up numbers.

Also, consider this article by Dr. Sears: SIDS

If breastfeeding decreases the risk of SIDS, then it follows logically that formula-feeding increases the risk of SIDS. If a formula-fed baby dies of SIDS that would have survived if breastfed, then formula contributed to, if not caused, the death of that baby. I seriously hate typing that sort of stuff because of how it comes off, but there's no other way to say it.
__________________





Reply With Quote
  #29  
June 8th, 2010, 09:44 PM
KimberlyD0
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofu Bacon View Post
Oh good Lord, you asked for at least a single case, and there it is. Let's not forget about the severe illness and permanent damage that these pathogens can cause in infants, not just death. For this specific bacteria, meningitis or bacteremia is pretty much inevitable, and the case/fatality rate is 50%.
Sorry I didn't make it clear. That was what I was looking for

I just had never seen it before and wanted to know if there was more documented cases, and how they're handling it so it doesn't happen again. I've also never known hospital that used powdered formula though, all the ones I know have ready made.

Thank you for providing me with what I was looking for, I'll be less annoyed now when I see that statment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess is Write View Post
Cori's link works just fine for me, too. And Kimberly, are you referring to our standards that allow amounts of rocket fuel to be distributed in formula? Did you know that the agencies we trust to protect us wouldn't even tell us which brands the fuel was in?

I'm also confused about why you don't trust peer-reviewed studies. Each case in those studies is an actual child from the sample. They don't just arbitrarily make up numbers.

Also, consider this article by Dr. Sears: SIDS

If breastfeeding decreases the risk of SIDS, then it follows logically that formula-feeding increases the risk of SIDS. If a formula-fed baby dies of SIDS that would have survived if breastfed, then formula contributed to, if not caused, the death of that baby. I seriously hate typing that sort of stuff because of how it comes off, but there's no other way to say it.
I don't know why its not working does it use a program or something?

I understand the peer reviews. Its not that I don't trust them, but that I have to see the cases on which they're based. Since I had never seen or heard of formula leading directly to the death of a child it was not making sence to me. I wasn't saying they're wrong so much as WHAT are they based on. Are they based on miss use? on improper manufacturing, tanting? or are they claiming that without those it causes it. I wanted to see a case where non of those had happened, which was provided.

I was just having trouble explaining what I was meaning.

As for SIDS thats a whole other issue.
BF is just one of the many factors in SIDS. Someone could BF and still have child die of SIDS, or a child could be FF and it has nothing to do with the SIDS. Ultamilty there is no clear cut way to know if that baby had been Bf then they wouldn't have died of SIDS. The only way that would be an absolute would be if BF babies never died of SIDS, which is saddly not true.
That one is more antidotal in that since there is no seeable cause of death it can't be said with certinty that FF cause the SIDS or even made it more likly for it to happen.

BF is thought to reduse the risks the same way pacifier does. Babies don't get into a deep sleep and thus are less likly to stop breathing. FF babies often sleep longer and deeper which means a higher risk. SO while the formula is a piece of the puzzle its not the sole reason for the SIDS. BF may reduse the risks of SIDS but it doesn't eliminate it, thats why I think its dangerous to blame it on a baby being FF.

Its the same as sleeping on their tummy increases a babies chance of dieing of SIDS due to sleeping too deeply, by being on their backs they wake more and thus are less likly to stop breathing. The Back to Sleep campaign has saved thousands of lives across Canada and the US every year.

So if for example you have a BF baby and a FF baby and you put the FF baby on their back, and the BF baby on their tummy, the BF baby is then the one at higher risk.

Do you get what I mean?

SIDS is such a complex and really unknown thing. We still know very little about why it happens.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
June 8th, 2010, 09:54 PM
Quantum_Leap's Avatar frequent flier
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Seattle area, Washington
Posts: 9,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by KimberlyD0 View Post

Second this was formula NOT made properly (which is a whole other ball game)
I think the point, though, is that when you use formula, you introduce the possibility of something not being mixed correctly. With breastfeeding, there's absolutely no possibility of something being mixed incorrectly. And those kinds of errors can be significantly harmful to babies. Why increase the number of possible ways for parents to screw up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chlodoll View Post

I think we need to face it that people know breastfeeding is better then formula or I should say the majority of people do, its not about it being better its about it being easier.
I think you're right, but I don't think they know just how significant the difference is. They vaguely know that 'breast is better,' but they don't know the specific ways, and they think that ultimately it doesn't much matter. If the labels were rephrased to say "formula use poses a significant risk to your child's health," then they might sit up and take more notice.
__________________

Thank you to the SSMC makers for my beautiful siggies!

(x2)(x2)(October 2011)
Reply With Quote
  #31  
June 8th, 2010, 11:20 PM
**Badfish**'s Avatar Worth Saving
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 7,141
Quote:
Originally Posted by KimberlyD0 View Post
As for SIDS thats a whole other issue.
BF is just one of the many factors in SIDS. Someone could BF and still have child die of SIDS, or a child could be FF and it has nothing to do with the SIDS. Ultamilty there is no clear cut way to know if that baby had been Bf then they wouldn't have died of SIDS. The only way that would be an absolute would be if BF babies never died of SIDS, which is saddly not true.
That one is more antidotal in that since there is no seeable cause of death it can't be said with certinty that FF cause the SIDS or even made it more likly for it to happen.

BF is thought to reduse the risks the same way pacifier does. Babies don't get into a deep sleep and thus are less likly to stop breathing. FF babies often sleep longer and deeper which means a higher risk. SO while the formula is a piece of the puzzle its not the sole reason for the SIDS. BF may reduse the risks of SIDS but it doesn't eliminate it, thats why I think its dangerous to blame it on a baby being FF.

Its the same as sleeping on their tummy increases a babies chance of dieing of SIDS due to sleeping too deeply, by being on their backs they wake more and thus are less likly to stop breathing. The Back to Sleep campaign has saved thousands of lives across Canada and the US every year.

So if for example you have a BF baby and a FF baby and you put the FF baby on their back, and the BF baby on their tummy, the BF baby is then the one at higher risk.

Do you get what I mean?

SIDS is such a complex and really unknown thing. We still know very little about why it happens.
First, if you're going to claim the Back to Sleep campaign has saved thousands of lives (which I agree with, by the way) then you also must acknowledge that breastfeeding saves thousands of lives. And if breastfeeding saves thousands of lives, well then, what is formula doing if not endangering lives? Breastfeeding is the biological norm, so I really hate that we credit it with "saving" lives. It's simply not causing death. I think it was Beth who posted a video not long ago about how breastmilk isn't "best." It's the standard. I thought that was spot-on.

Second, I'd like to see your sources for your claim that a breastfed baby on its stomach is at a higher risk of SIDS than a formula-fed baby on its back.
__________________





Reply With Quote
  #32  
June 9th, 2010, 12:15 AM
KimberlyD0
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by brui77 View Post
I think the point, though, is that when you use formula, you introduce the possibility of something not being mixed correctly. With breastfeeding, there's absolutely no possibility of something being mixed incorrectly. And those kinds of errors can be significantly harmful to babies. Why increase the number of possible ways for parents to screw up?
I get that, but I was just trying to understand where its based from. No good going on half the information All the cases of harm/death of a baby connected to formula, that I was formilier with, had other outstanding issues that contributed more then the formula (like tainting) I was want to see if there was in fact cases of non tanted properly used formula causeing harm. I figured that maybe they had seen something I hadn't, which they did

I actually googled it and found more about that story that was provided and I noticed that both the baby who died and the one who was sick were given powdered formula and other foods. So there could be a link there to since there is other enviromental sorces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess is Write View Post
First, if you're going to claim the Back to Sleep campaign has saved thousands of lives (which I agree with, by the way) then you also must acknowledge that breastfeeding saves thousands of lives. And if breastfeeding saves thousands of lives, well then, what is formula doing if not endangering lives? Breastfeeding is the biological norm, so I really hate that we credit it with "saving" lives. It's simply not causing death. I think it was Beth who posted a video not long ago about how breastmilk isn't "best." It's the standard. I thought that was spot-on.

Second, I'd like to see your sources for your claim that a breastfed baby on its stomach is at a higher risk of SIDS than a formula-fed baby on its back.
Oh I agree and I have never and would never say that it hasn't. I was just trying to get a feel for WHAT about formula was dangerous and deadly. After all houndreds of babies are not just dropping dead because of formula everyday, so to call it deadly is a little dramatic and over the top. BF does save lives in that it eliminates tainting, it can't be made wrong and well its the normal food sorce for children. Formula will never be the same or just as good as Breastmilk, but it is also in 99% of cases not going to kill a child either. It can and does save lives as well when used as it was intended. For mom's who can't BF, or for babies who have no sorce of BM (like when the mother dies, or though adoption, unless that mother is blessed to be able to lactate.)


I don't have a sorce for my statement as I am not inclined to look for it. However it common sence, if tummy sleeping increses the risk of SIDS then the baby on their tummy is at higher risk.

Maybe it would make more sence this way..

Breastfeeding can and does reduse the risk of SIDS, but its still only one piece of the puzzle, so if there is other risk factors in place that are not in place of the FF baby its then the same risk, just different sorces. This is especially true when there is multiple other risk factors present, and that goes for any baby, the more risk factors in place the more likly it is to happen. I suppose it could be seen as simatics as well..


goodness.. it 3am.. I don't even know if what I said makes sence LOL

Last edited by KimberlyD0; June 9th, 2010 at 12:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
June 9th, 2010, 05:05 AM
Tofu Bacon
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by KimberlyD0 View Post
I actually googled it and found more about that story that was provided and I noticed that both the baby who died and the one who was sick were given powdered formula and other foods. So there could be a link there to since there is other enviromental sorces.
The link I provided? The key detail was that the bacteria found in the effected babies matched the strain found in opened and unopened cases of the formula batch. This incident was actually part of why most hospitals now only use ready-to-feed formulas, because powdered formula is not sterile and is more likely to harbor bacteria than ready-to-feed formula, no matter how perfectly the powdered formula is prepared.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
June 9th, 2010, 05:13 AM
KimberlyD0
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofu Bacon View Post
The link I provided? The key detail was that the bacteria found in the effected babies matched the strain found in opened and unopened cases of the formula batch. This incident was actually part of why most hospitals now only use ready-to-feed formulas, because powdered formula is not sterile and is more likely to harbor bacteria than ready-to-feed formula, no matter how perfectly the powdered formula is prepared.
No it still wont work my computer doesn't like it.

I found a news artical about it. It says basically the same thing you quoted, as well as the information that they had there. Plus it says what it is, how rare it is, that the babies had powdered formula and other food (no idea what foods) and that there are some enviromental causes for it as well.

If I did more digging I could probably find more.

How long ago was it? sorry I missed the date and I've been up all night, couldn't sleep, and want to try to go to sleep lol, so I don't want to look it up at the moment, it took me a while to find it last time

I know here its always been ready made for any of the people I know who FF from the start. I also got the ready made when I had to give it to DD#1. I went to the concentrate after that because its easier to use and make. One can formula one can water, pretty fool proof lol

Maybe its different there? a US/Canada thing maybe?

I'm glad then that they stopped using the powdered stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
June 9th, 2010, 05:18 AM
**Badfish**'s Avatar Worth Saving
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 7,141
Quote:
Originally Posted by KimberlyD0 View Post
I don't have a sorce for my statement as I am not inclined to look for it. However it common sence, if tummy sleeping increses the risk of SIDS then the baby on their tummy is at higher risk.

Maybe it would make more sence this way..

Breastfeeding can and does reduse the risk of SIDS, but its still only one piece of the puzzle, so if there is other risk factors in place that are not in place of the FF baby its then the same risk, just different sorces. This is especially true when there is multiple other risk factors present, and that goes for any baby, the more risk factors in place the more likly it is to happen. I suppose it could be seen as simatics as well..


goodness.. it 3am.. I don't even know if what I said makes sence LOL
Um, no it's not common sense. Formula feeding also increases the risk of SIDS. How can you say tummy sleeping is riskier than formula feeding when you're not even willing to see if there's any evidence at all to back up that statement? Both are known contributors to SIDS, even if we don't know exactly why. It shouldn't be that difficult for you to find studies with the instances of SIDS deaths where the child was sleeping on its stomach and breastfed vs. the child sleeping on its stomach and formula fed vs. sleeping on its back and breastfed vs. sleeping on its back and formula fed. And why even debate if you're not "inclined" to support your stance?
__________________





Reply With Quote
  #36  
June 9th, 2010, 05:30 AM
HappyHippy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pavia, Italy
Posts: 5,959
Quote:
Originally Posted by KimberlyD0 View Post
This has always bothered me when someone says this. Can you show any cases in Canada, the US, or any other 1st world country where properly regulated, domestic formula has directly caused the death of a child when used properly??
No, I don't have access to freely show medical documents on children. There was an article not too long ago that did say that some babies would have survived had they not been formula fed. And I know from my own personal experience the effects forumla has on babies.

Also, in a book, it discusses the ingrediants of formula. DHA is great for babies, but synthetic DHA and ARA are not. It's actually very dangerous. Enfamil Premium prides themselves on having triple the DHA than other formulas. Very misleading to parents who don't know that synthetic DHA is harmful for their kids.

It's also been said that formula increases the chances of SIDS, and that is for babies worldwide.
__________________
Mama to G, L & twins F & M
Started off 2013 homebirthing suprise twins Fia Celesta & Maddalena Isabella
Reply With Quote
  #37  
June 9th, 2010, 05:42 AM
HappyHippy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pavia, Italy
Posts: 5,959
Here is an article after the China formula accident talking about how USA formulas are also contaminated. They say it's low enough to be safe, but I'm not sure about that.
Contaminated Baby Formula Fears Hit U.S. - CBS Evening News - CBS News

Here is an article from a book that says that formula feeding doubles infant death.
Formula and Infant Deaths - The Baby Bond

I can't really find many articles that aren't about China. But I will look some more later.
__________________
Mama to G, L & twins F & M
Started off 2013 homebirthing suprise twins Fia Celesta & Maddalena Isabella
Reply With Quote
  #38  
June 9th, 2010, 05:56 AM
Tofu Bacon
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by KimberlyD0 View Post
No it still wont work my computer doesn't like it.

I found a news artical about it. It says basically the same thing you quoted, as well as the information that they had there. Plus it says what it is, how rare it is, that the babies had powdered formula and other food (no idea what foods) and that there are some enviromental causes for it as well.

If I did more digging I could probably find more.

How long ago was it? sorry I missed the date and I've been up all night, couldn't sleep, and want to try to go to sleep lol, so I don't want to look it up at the moment, it took me a while to find it last time

I know here its always been ready made for any of the people I know who FF from the start. I also got the ready made when I had to give it to DD#1. I went to the concentrate after that because its easier to use and make. One can formula one can water, pretty fool proof lol

Maybe its different there? a US/Canada thing maybe?

I'm glad then that they stopped using the powdered stuff.
These were newborns in NICU, so the only other food they would be taking in would be formula. Again, the bacteria found in the sick babies matched the bacteria strain in the case used used by the hospital; there is no question about where they got sick.

Ready-to-feed formula is available here too, but particularly for a special formula, it is much more expensive so parents often switch to powdered formula for reasons of cost. This is not the only case contaminated formula. Here is another, larger report regarding the same bacteria Invasive Enterobacter sakazakii Disease in Infants | CDC EID

Another with salmonella Powdered infant formula as a source of Salmonella ... [Clin Infect Dis. 2008] - PubMed result

And botulism Researchers find botulism-causing spores in US infant formula

Last edited by Tofu Bacon; June 9th, 2010 at 05:59 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
June 9th, 2010, 05:59 AM
IAmMomMomIAm
Guest
Posts: n/a
I didn't actually read the thread, since I have no desire to know how formula kills babies. However, I did want to add that I'm glad they are making formula better because there are at least some woman who know that breast milk is better and still don't get to choose. And for the woman who do choose formula.. well, maybe their babies will be healthier with an improved formula.

Didn't want of the companies have a slogan that said "next to the breast, it's the best"? They changed it though.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
June 9th, 2010, 06:41 AM
KimberlyD0
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofu Bacon View Post
These were newborns in NICU, so the only other food they would be taking in would be formula. Again, the bacteria found in the sick babies matched the bacteria strain in the case used used by the hospital; there is no question about where they got sick.

Ready-to-feed formula is available here too, but particularly for a special formula, it is much more expensive so parents often switch to powdered formula for reasons of cost. This is not the only case contaminated formula. Here is another, larger report regarding the same bacteria Invasive Enterobacter sakazakii Disease in Infants | CDC EID

Another with salmonella Powdered infant formula as a source of Salmonella ... [Clin Infect Dis. 2008] - PubMed result

And botulism Researchers find botulism-causing spores in US infant formula
I still havn't made it to bed
I found the story I had found originally. If you read it through it says that they had other foods too. It doesn't say what foods at all. Is this not the same thing you were talking about?
N.M. baby dies from illness tied to formula - Kids and parenting- msnbc.com

Saddly no matter what foods you eat there is a risk of getting sick from many of the same things. I guess you could say "eating kills" lol cause really, in so many ways it does.

Do you know where I might find information about how these things got into the formula? I mean it didn't just apper one day so maybe if they can find the sorce then they can reduse, or eliminate it being in the formula. Course that would mean having to remove them from all food sorces, and I don't know that we can.

Agian though these are not the norm, so a generalized "formula kills babies" is still in accurate. Its paramount to saying "formula is poison" which is just not the case. Formula has the potential to kill if contaminated or used incorrectly or a rare allergic reaction occurs. These are the only ways it is the sole cause of infant death. Other indirect causes are due to weakend immun systems, diarea issues, and sevear reflux, which can happen with BF babies too, I only know from my experience which is my BF babies reflux was worse then my FF, but thats purly observation not fact lol, (I'm actually trying to find more information about reflux in general as it pertains to BFing), and then anyother health issues that can be aggrivated by formula use. In those situations I can see how formula contributes to the deaths of the children.

I would actually be interested in seeing ALL the details of the study to see how they determined that the babies died as a direct result of formula. Not because I don't belive them, but because I like to know where and how the data is collected.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Topic Tools Search this Topic
Search this Topic:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:41 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0