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Saudi clerics advocate adult "breastfeeding"


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  #1  
June 9th, 2010, 07:45 AM
Jenna's Avatar AWESOME!!!
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Saudi Clerics Advocate Adult Breast-Feeding - AOL News

Thoughts? It would be an easy way to get around the punishments for two unrelated people of different genders being together in a room, that's for sure.
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  #2  
June 9th, 2010, 08:06 AM
IAmMomMomIAm
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I don't feel like I know enough about Islamic law to make an informed comment, but if the law says that a child needs to be nursed before the age of 2 to qualify, then I would think that law would have to be changed first.
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  #3  
June 9th, 2010, 08:12 AM
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I'm not sure how that would even work when Islamic law says the five fulfilling feeding session must occur before the age of 2. I feel like I'm missing something for how this would circumvent the law. Either way, I don't think it's a realistic option.

This made me so sad.
Quote:
Unlawful mixing between the sexes is taken very seriously in Saudi Arabia. In March 2009, a 75-year-old Syrian widow, Khamisa Mohammed Sawadi, living in the city of Al-Chamil, was given 40 lashes and sentenced to six months in prison after the religious police learned that two men who were not related to her were in her house, delivering bread to her.

One of the two men found in her house, Fahd, told the police that Sawadi breast-fed him as a baby so he was considered a son and had a right to be there. But in a later court ruling, a judge said it could not be proved that Fahd was her "breast milk son." Fahd was sentenced to four months in prison and 40 lashes, and the man who accompanied him got six months and 60 lashes.
ETA: I was reading while Kes was typing, I think.
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  #4  
June 9th, 2010, 08:15 AM
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Also, according to the part that Jess quoted, they aren't willing to use "I was breastfed before I was two" as a legitimate reason for an adult to be there anyways, so what would be the point? I can see it having more purpose if the man and woman actually lived together but weren't "related by milk" <-- that's weird to say.

How obnoxious it must be to have to constantly cover your face in your own home as well as in public.
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  #5  
June 9th, 2010, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keskes View Post
How obnoxious it must be to have to constantly cover your face in your own home as well as in public.
They don't have to cover their faces in their own homes, unless there are men who aren't related to them present.
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  #6  
June 9th, 2010, 09:43 AM
IAmMomMomIAm
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isn't that the point of breast feeding their live in relatives? So they don't have to cover their faces?

Quote:
Obeikan said the fatwa applied to men who live in the same house or come into contact with women on a regular basis, except for drivers.
Does this not mean they sometimes live with non relatives, and therefore have to cover their faces?

Quote:
It is not uncommon for sisters, for example, to breast-feed their nephews so they and their daughters will not have to cover their faces in front of them later in life.
And that sounds like it doesn't matter if someone is technically related, since apparently nephews and cousins don't count as "related" for that purpose.

But like I said.. all I have to go on is what the article says.. I know nothing about Islamic law except the very VERY basics.
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  #7  
June 9th, 2010, 10:38 AM
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BTW this sheik was sacked and his fatwa is no longer considered legitimate. I am not sure how he thought feeding a grown adult breast milk will suddenly make someone a "mahrem" to women. In order to be mahrem (someone too close in blood relations to marry) they must be breastfed before the age of two and there must be so many consequtive feedings. (the scholars differ on how many)

And there are non-related males living with these women, oftentimes they are drivers or groundskeepers. (I have a few Saudi friends ) But the house is usually designed in such a way to prevent them from intermingling. (think of seperate sevant quarters)
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  #8  
June 11th, 2010, 05:26 PM
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One of my former students from Kuwait wrote this poem and posted it on her Facebook page the other day. I thought it might be appropriate to share here. (She gave me her permission).

Truly Free by ****

Told off by many before

Despised by so many more

All because of a cover I wear

To protect my dignity and soul

Not just my hair



They think I am a slave to man

Never being able to say I can



Yet what they do not know

And cannot see

Is the simple fact:

IM TRULY FREE



Spoon fed by media

Taught in the dark

I scream from within:

Please listen! Please Hark!



Not to the media

Or anyone else

But to the words of Allah

No more and no less



For if you dont

Youll never understand

The purity of this deen*

Of this religion so grand



You look me in the eye

Expecting me to cry

Expecting me to burst

With tears of being forever cursed



You give me a judging look

I look at you back

With no fear at all

But with eagerness at heart



To tell you how I feel

To show you what I can do

With the liberties I have

In this religion of peace



Ive stood for too long

Not being able to speak

Whats wrong with you? you say

Do you have anything to convey?



I gather my strength

And I try to explain

But no more than silence

And effort in vain



Let down by words

I turn to leave

I recall just then

What I wanted to say



I turn back to you

With a smile on my face

And tell you just this:

As a Muslima I say:



"Oh cant you see

That Im truly free?

This scarf I wear on me

I wear so proudly

To present my dignity

My modesty and integrity

So dont judge me

Just open your eyes and see

IM TRULY FREE"
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  #9  
June 11th, 2010, 05:34 PM
MrsSarah1's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Location: California
Posts: 2,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by brui77 View Post
One of my former students from Kuwait wrote this poem and posted it on her Facebook page the other day. I thought it might be appropriate to share here. (She gave me her permission).

Truly Free by ****

Told off by many before

Despised by so many more

All because of a cover I wear

To protect my dignity and soul

Not just my hair



They think I am a slave to man

Never being able to say I can



Yet what they do not know

And cannot see

Is the simple fact:

IM TRULY FREE



Spoon fed by media

Taught in the dark

I scream from within:

Please listen! Please Hark!



Not to the media

Or anyone else

But to the words of Allah

No more and no less



For if you dont

Youll never understand

The purity of this deen*

Of this religion so grand



You look me in the eye

Expecting me to cry

Expecting me to burst

With tears of being forever cursed



You give me a judging look

I look at you back

With no fear at all

But with eagerness at heart



To tell you how I feel

To show you what I can do

With the liberties I have

In this religion of peace



Ive stood for too long

Not being able to speak

Whats wrong with you? you say

Do you have anything to convey?



I gather my strength

And I try to explain

But no more than silence

And effort in vain



Let down by words

I turn to leave

I recall just then

What I wanted to say



I turn back to you

With a smile on my face

And tell you just this:

As a Muslima I say:



"Oh cant you see

That Im truly free?

This scarf I wear on me

I wear so proudly

To present my dignity

My modesty and integrity

So dont judge me

Just open your eyes and see

IM TRULY FREE"

Wow, that's beautiful. I've read dozens and dozens of books on Islam and Saudi traditions as well as having many friends of that character and in general, they feel pride and love their burqa/etc. and see nothing wrong with it. Their world is just different, and they love it and would want nothing else but their culture and beliefs.

I don't like that women are punished for having non-relatives in their home (or that raped women are sent to jail because it's "their fault") but 90% of that belief system is very calm and beautiful.
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  #10  
June 11th, 2010, 08:49 PM
IAmMomMomIAm
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When I said that having to cover your face in your own would be obnoxious, I think that came across wrong.

For instance, my religion is huge on modesty. I'm supposed to cover my shoulders and my boobs in front of people, but I don't bother to cover myself when I'm at home. I wear tank tops that sometimes are low cut, and sometimes even show my bra straps. *gasp* I also wear shorts that are not down to my knee. I don't think that dressing modestly in public is a burden per se, but I would personally find it frustrating if I *always* had to dress as if I was going out, and could never just throw on a tank top in the morning and walk around like that.
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  #11  
June 12th, 2010, 06:32 AM
mayandsofiasmommy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Location: CA
Posts: 12,545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keskes View Post
When I said that having to cover your face in your own would be obnoxious, I think that came across wrong.

For instance, my religion is huge on modesty. I'm supposed to cover my shoulders and my boobs in front of people, but I don't bother to cover myself when I'm at home. I wear tank tops that sometimes are low cut, and sometimes even show my bra straps. *gasp* I also wear shorts that are not down to my knee. I don't think that dressing modestly in public is a burden per se, but I would personally find it frustrating if I *always* had to dress as if I was going out, and could never just throw on a tank top in the morning and walk around like that.
I thought that Mormons always had to wear garments? At least, my friend who is mormon- and not even a "strict" mormon- wears garments all the time.
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  #12  
June 12th, 2010, 06:35 AM
IAmMomMomIAm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayandsofiasmommy View Post
I thought that Mormons always had to wear garments? At least, my friend who is mormon- and not even a "strict" mormon- wears garments all the time.
You don't get them until you've been through the Temple, which I haven't. So *I* don't have to wear them. However, I know a lot of people who will happily parade around the house in just their Gs, whereas they would definitely have to cover up if they had company or were going out (showing your Gs off is worse than showing off skin), so the concept is the same.
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  #13  
June 12th, 2010, 06:52 AM
BigGrin's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,684
Quote:
I don't like that women are punished for having non-relatives in their home (or that raped women are sent to jail because it's "their fault") but 90% of that belief system is very calm and beautiful.
I think this is where you have to seperate the religion from the practices of the cultures in the region. In Islam the punishment for rape is death to the perpetrator, there is absolutely no sin on the woman. (or man if that is the case) However there are some very misogynistic places in the ME that still has some fairly priitive thinking about these issues and they ignore the tenets and follow their own ignorance.

Also I don't believe fiqh (jurisprudence of shariah) states there is a punishment for allowing non-relatives in the home. However both men and women are not supposed to be alone with someone of the opposite sex who is not related to them. This has a two-fold purpose, first to prevent non-halaal interactions, and secondly to prevent the gossip that can arise from such actions...which can place either member in a vulnerable position.

btw, halaal means allowed.
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  #14  
June 12th, 2010, 08:26 AM
Quantum_Leap's Avatar frequent flier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsSarah1 View Post
Wow, that's beautiful. I've read dozens and dozens of books on Islam and Saudi traditions as well as having many friends of that character and in general, they feel pride and love their burqa/etc. and see nothing wrong with it. Their world is just different, and they love it and would want nothing else but their culture and beliefs.
I think that, as with any culture (including our own), there are people who genuinely enjoy being part of it and also people who secretly resent it but pretend to enjoy it so as not to 'rock the boat.' My former student is clearly one of those who does enjoy her religion and feels a great sense of peace from it. And I would never deny that to her -- even if it's not for me.
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