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How are they two different issues? What if you DH never lived on his own prior to marrying you? And what if, because of this, you never truly got to know what he would be like to live with? This could certainly cause issues in a marriage.
I would not have married my husband if he had never lived on his own. But, I don't see how - never living on his own = never know what he would be like to live with
Right, YOU wouldn't have married YOUR husband if he hadn't lived independently.
How is one going to figure out what it will be like to live with somebody who lives with people who take care of them? How is one supposed to know if their future spouse is good at cleaning up after themselves, if they have never witnessed them do it because their parent always has done it for them? How is one supposed to know how their future spouse is at handling finances, if said person is living for free at their parents home?
I don't think it is that hard of a concept to grasp. When I lived at home with my parents, I was a lazy as crap girl who sat around eating and expecting my mom to clean up my messes. There is no way my DH could have had any idea what I would be like when we were living together independently from our parents, because I hadn't needed to step up and be an adult. I am completely different now from what I was living at home.
Right, YOU wouldn't have married YOUR husband if he hadn't lived independently.
How is one going to figure out what it will be like to live with somebody who lives with people who take care of them? How is one supposed to know if their future spouse is good at cleaning up after themselves, if they have never witnessed them do it because their parent always has done it for them? How is one supposed to know how their future spouse is at handling finances, if said person is living for free at their parents home?
I don't think it is that hard of a concept to grasp. When I lived at home with my parents, I was a lazy as crap girl who sat around eating and expecting my mom to clean up my messes. There is no way my DH could have had any idea what I would be like when we were living together independently from our parents, because I hadn't needed to step up and be an adult. I am completely different now from what I was living at home.
If my DH had lived with his parents I would imagine we would talk about it and I would know from being around him and his parents' house how he treated them, how they treated him. How he lived. If he was lazy. If he did his own laundry etc. If I didn't know those things that would be my own fault but then it would be just as likely that I wouldn't know those same faults about him when he lived alone.
I guess maybe I'm missing your point - if you are just saying people should live independently prior to marriage, then I agree. But again, living on your own prior to marriage is a different issue than whether a couple lives together prior to marriage.
If my DH had lived with his parents I would imagine we would talk about it and I would know from being around him and his parents' house how he treated them, how they treated him. How he lived. If he was lazy. If he did his own laundry etc. If I didn't know those things that would be my own fault but then it would be just as likely that I wouldn't know those same faults about him when he lived alone.
I guess maybe I'm missing your point - if you are just saying people should live independently prior to marriage, then I agree. But again, living on your own prior to marriage is a different issue than whether a couple lives together prior to marriage.
This is exactly what I said. I only stated the situation regarding a couple not living independently in response to Kes's post, where she stated she couldn't think of anything she couldn't figure out ahead of time that would be a deal breaker later on. She then stated that she meant for herself, not in general.
I don't really understand how it's a different issue, though. Others have stated that they believe it is a sin to co-habitate, that they think it is fine to co-habitate. I was just simply stating that I don't think one should co-habitate, I do feel, however, that they should each be independent prior to marriage. That's not that far off from what is being discussed and is completely relevant to a subject discussing divorce rates based on a persons living situation prior to marriage.
What do you think of cohabitation before marriage? Does it show a lack of commitment? Is it a sin? A sensible idea? Does is doom a marriage? What about the kids?
Moreover, what if a couple never plans to marry? Does it become "better" then?
I think it's a great idea for most couples, as long as their religion and personal views allow it. I don't think it shows a lack of commitment at all. I don't believe in "sins" really, so no- not a sin in my book. Definitely sensible and would NOT doom a marriage, IMO. I lived with my hubby before marrying him and while I wouldn't say it helped me decide if I wanted to be with him long term or marry him, it did help me learn to deal with some things that he may do BEFORE we got married.
If a couple never plans to marry, more power to them. It doesn't matter to me either way.
It's a complicated subject. Personally I don't care if people live together before they're married. DH and I fall somewhere in between. We moved in to an apartment together a month and a half before the wedding. At that point we'd been together two and a half years and engaged for over a year.
The difference in divorce rates may very well have a lot to do with differing views on marriage in general. I'd be interested in a study on the divorce rates of people who have nothing against co-habitation, and could have seen themselves doing it, but for whatever reason didn't. Even in the studies posted the statistics aren't cut and dry.
Lash's first source on co-habitation being associated with higher divorce rates states:
Quote:
Couples who moved in together, after making the commitment of becoming engaged, scored just like those who waited until after the marriage ceremony. And, this makes sense because both groups took a deliberate and serious step towards permanence.
The second posted study states:
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Waite found that two types of cohabitation arrangements exist: those in which the partners intend to marry and those in which they do not. Partners who cohabit with the intention of marrying share many of the characteristics of married people, she found. Those who cohabit without the intention of marrying often have short relationships with few benefits.
Which says to me that the motivation behind unmarried people living together may very well have an impact on whether there's an increased risk of divorce later on.
I also find it interesting many of these studies contain the very large confound of not including much in the way of data from males involved in the relationships. I wonder if that would change the data at all? I'd also like to know why marital data collected from males is considered less accurate than data from females?
Quote:
Thus far, most research has focused on collecting data from couples and most information is collected from the female partner of the relationship. Several studies have specifically mentioned the lack of representation from the male partner (Thomson & Colella, 1992; Teachman, 2003). It is important that both males and females are represented because both have different roles, responsibilities and perspectives within a relationship. It is important to understand both the male and female point of view. In addition, “marital data (as well as other data) reported by men are considered less reliable and precise than marital data reported by women” (Wineberg, 1994, pg. 82). Since the lack of this information reduces the accuracy of relationship research, it is necessary to find a way to not only include the male perspective, but to increase the accuracy of the data collected as well.
That is interesting... I forgot to look at the studies, sorry. But they definitely make sense. I don't think I would live with someone who I didn't plan on marrying one day. I wouldn't have to be engaged, but it would need to be a serious relationship that I would be willing to take to the next step.
This is exactly what I said. I only stated the situation regarding a couple not living independently in response to Kes's post, where she stated she couldn't think of anything she couldn't figure out ahead of time that would be a deal breaker later on. She then stated that she meant for herself, not in general.
I don't really understand how it's a different issue, though. Others have stated that they believe it is a sin to co-habitate, that they think it is fine to co-habitate. I was just simply stating that I don't think one should co-habitate, I do feel, however, that they should each be independent prior to marriage. That's not that far off from what is being discussed and is completely relevant to a subject discussing divorce rates based on a persons living situation prior to marriage.
Why should people have to live independantly prior to marriage?
DH lived on his own for 1 year before I met him, and I was still living with parents going to college and working. I moved in with him straight from my parents house. It hasn't hindered our marriage in any way. My mom was still doing my laundry, and usually cooking since I was a Chef for 8 hours a day so didn't want to cook again when I got home. When I moved in with DH I cooked and did laundry, we shared the task.
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I would think that having an 'extreme' personality in one way or another would change the scope of the results. For instance, just HOW mad would people be to find their brand new spouse was the most messy person they'd ever met? How much of a dealbreaker would it be if one partner or the other expected meals prepared for them in their style while the other partner doesn't cook? If you or your intended dearest partner have personality traits that are kind of obnoxious in a living situation to the point where it may cause major discord among the relationship, I think it's better to find out before signing on the dotted line. If you're both moderate in personality, it's likely ok either way.
For religious folks who believe in being "saved" by your belief: does it matter if you sin by cohabitating or fornicating since you're saved anyway?
Why should people have to live independantly prior to marriage?
DH lived on his own for 1 year before I met him, and I was still living with parents going to college and working. I moved in with him straight from my parents house. It hasn't hindered our marriage in any way. My mom was still doing my laundry, and usually cooking since I was a Chef for 8 hours a day so didn't want to cook again when I got home. When I moved in with DH I cooked and did laundry, we shared the task.
I think I've made my view on this pretty clear in my other posts. Both DH and I lived with out parents prior to being married. Neither one of us lived on our own before the day of our wedding, and it has taken A LOT of work and counseling for us to figure out how to let go of the bond we had with our families and focus on each other. Had we been more independent prior to marriage, this shouldn't have been an issue.
Of course, what is right for me, isn't right for everybody. I just really think it would be beneficial for people to gain independence from their families prior to entering into a marriage for many different reasons.
Location: Not the edge of the world, but I can see it from here...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JennTheMomma
Why should people have to live independantly prior to marriage?
I know this wasn't directed at me, but I feel that it's important for my kids to live independantly before cohabitation or marraige because I feel that they need to know how to take care of themselves. It's a huge life experience living on your own and being solely responsible for what happens to yourself. I will encourage my children to do this.
I think I've made my view on this pretty clear in my other posts. Both DH and I lived with out parents prior to being married. Neither one of us lived on our own before the day of our wedding, and it has taken A LOT of work and counseling for us to figure out how to let go of the bond we had with our families and focus on each other. Had we been more independent prior to marriage, this shouldn't have been an issue.
Of course, what is right for me, isn't right for everybody. I just really think it would be beneficial for people to gain independence from their families prior to entering into a marriage for many different reasons.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I see your point, but perhaps it was your maturity level that made marraige hard in the beginning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mommiex2
I know this wasn't directed at me, but I feel that it's important for my kids to live independantly before cohabitation or marraige because I feel that they need to know how to take care of themselves. It's a huge life experience living on your own and being solely responsible for what happens to yourself. I will encourage my children to do this.
I guess I just don't see why. I was in college and working full time when I met DH. I went from my parents house to my DH's apartment and we had no issues, nor did I have him cater to my needs or run back to mommy and daddy. As soon as I moved in I cooked, cleaned, did my laundry, did grocery shopping, paid bills, etc. I didn't need a transition period.
__________________
Mama to G, L & twins F & M
Started off 2013 homebirthing suprise twins Fia Celesta & Maddalena Isabella
DH and I lived in sin prior to getting hitched. For me, I could have continued on that way without any issues, getting married was important to DH and as I had plans on being with him for the long haul regardless we married.
I think for others, it really depends on your own personal comfort level, if someone is very religious then compromising your values to live together before marriage wouldn't work.
Right, YOU wouldn't have married YOUR husband if he hadn't lived independently.
How is one going to figure out what it will be like to live with somebody who lives with people who take care of them? How is one supposed to know if their future spouse is good at cleaning up after themselves, if they have never witnessed them do it because their parent always has done it for them? How is one supposed to know how their future spouse is at handling finances, if said person is living for free at their parents home?
I don't think it is that hard of a concept to grasp. When I lived at home with my parents, I was a lazy as crap girl who sat around eating and expecting my mom to clean up my messes. There is no way my DH could have had any idea what I would be like when we were living together independently from our parents, because I hadn't needed to step up and be an adult. I am completely different now from what I was living at home.
I can't really see why this would need to be a deal breaker for anyone. WHY would you marry someone if you didn't know enough about them to know how they handled their finances or whether or not they were a slob?
My original point was that there's nothing you can learn about someone from living with them full time that you can't learn by spending time with them in general. You should ASK your intended spouse how they handle their finances, and notice (or flat out ask) how clean they keep things, unless you're fine with doing all the cleaning yourself in the first place.
I just don't think that's something you need to live with someone to discover.
I would think that having an 'extreme' personality in one way or another would change the scope of the results. For instance, just HOW mad would people be to find their brand new spouse was the most messy person they'd ever met? How much of a dealbreaker would it be if one partner or the other expected meals prepared for them in their style while the other partner doesn't cook? If you or your intended dearest partner have personality traits that are kind of obnoxious in a living situation to the point where it may cause major discord among the relationship, I think it's better to find out before signing on the dotted line. If you're both moderate in personality, it's likely ok either way.
For religious folks who believe in being "saved" by your belief: does it matter if you sin by cohabitating or fornicating since you're saved anyway?
I, personally, don't believe in "Once Saved Always Saved", so it is still a sin, still an infraction against God, and still wrong in my eyes. Just because you are saved does not mean you can do anything you want to without fear of reprimand.
King James Bible
But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
I'm not going to go into if one cheats later on, I'm just talking about this situation.
Me and DH did live together for 2 months before we got married, but that was due to extenuating circumstances and we have long since asked forgiveness.
More on topic, I do think cohabitation can cause higher divorce rates, or lower divorce rates if you think about it. People who live together before marriage see that they can live together and have the same relationship without a piece of paper and sharing last names. Less people marrying = less people getting divorced. I don't think it's always DOOM to a marriage, as some people benefit from knowing all the in's and out's of their partner before getting into a serious commitment. It is pretty expensive to divorce.
I do think cohabitation has damaged the idea and practice of marriage though.
I can't really see why this would need to be a deal breaker for anyone. WHY would you marry someone if you didn't know enough about them to know how they handled their finances or whether or not they were a slob?
My original point was that there's nothing you can learn about someone from living with them full time that you can't learn by spending time with them in general. You should ASK your intended spouse how they handle their finances, and notice (or flat out ask) how clean they keep things, unless you're fine with doing all the cleaning yourself in the first place.
I just don't think that's something you need to live with someone to discover.
For me, it's because a person may handle finances, or cooking and cleaning in a certain way when they don't TRULY have to be responsible for themselves, and handle it all a completely different way when they have no choice but to fend for themselves.
For instance, I used to spend all of my paychecks on ciggarettes, clothes and fast food when I was living at home with my parents and COULD spend my money that way. DH knew this, and I knew DH was pretty careless with his money as well. This wasn't a deal breaker for either of us, as we knew things would be different when we were out on our own. We didn't, however, know how the stress of financial struggles would impact us. Had we BTDT on our own prior to marriage, we would have been able to gauge how to deal with each other during these stressful times, and we would have had the opportunity to learn, on our own, how to deal with these situations independently of each other before being thrown into dealing with them together.
Location: Not the edge of the world, but I can see it from here...
Posts: 7,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by JennTheMomma
I guess I just don't see why. I was in college and working full time when I met DH. I went from my parents house to my DH's apartment and we had no issues, nor did I have him cater to my needs or run back to mommy and daddy. As soon as I moved in I cooked, cleaned, did my laundry, did grocery shopping, paid bills, etc. I didn't need a transition period.
For me, it's because a person may handle finances, or cooking and cleaning in a certain way when they don't TRULY have to be responsible for themselves, and handle it all a completely different way when they have no choice but to fend for themselves.
For instance, I used to spend all of my paychecks on ciggarettes, clothes and fast food when I was living at home with my parents and COULD spend my money that way. DH knew this, and I knew DH was pretty careless with his money as well. This wasn't a deal breaker for either of us, as we knew things would be different when we were out on our own. We didn't, however, know how the stress of financial struggles would impact us. Had we BTDT on our own prior to marriage, we would have been able to gauge how to deal with each other during these stressful times, and we would have had the opportunity to learn, on our own, how to deal with these situations independently of each other before being thrown into dealing with them together.
We are on the same page about people needing to live on their own for a time before they get hitched. I just don't see why they would have to live with their SO as opposed to by themselves, or with a platonic roommate. If people want to, that's fine by me - whatever. I'm just not understanding the point of view that it's a necessity or a prerequisite for marriage.
I can see how living on your own before living with a SO would be beneficial. I didn't do that, but maybe it would have helped to have that transitioning period where I learned to be independent. I've lived with DH since I was 18. Pretty much as soon as I turned legal I moved out and in with him and his then roommate.
I liked living with him and his roommate though (for the most part). I didn't even know how to do laundry before moving in with them!
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