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Are cold showers abusive when used for punishment?


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  #61  
November 24th, 2010, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Tersh View Post
To me, the point isn't whether it's traumatic physically, it's what it does to them mentally/emotionally. I might turn a cold hose on a dog fight, but there is no way I would give my kids a cold shower/bath to deal with unwanted behaviour.
But that's kind of the point. To mentally create a negative association with a certain behavior. I do not believe that is akin to abuse.
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  #62  
November 24th, 2010, 09:33 AM
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Also, sitting in a locked, dark closet won't hurt anyone physically so it should be an acceptable form of punishment and not abuse because..................
kids fall asleep in the dark, play with glow in the dark toys, ride in vehicles at night, and stand outside to look at the stars.
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  #63  
November 24th, 2010, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by DollBabyKG View Post
But that's kind of the point. To mentally create a negative association with a certain behavior. I do not believe that is akin to abuse.
And I'm not sure I agree with it, whether I consider it abusive per se. I think it's definitely normative abuse.

I will admit, I have struggled with acceptable forms of punishment and really try to use positive reinforcement to encourage positive behaviour instead of using negative reinforcement to discourage negative behaviour. I don't always do it, but I would have real trouble using a cold shower/bath to encourage potty training. Potty "training" was tough until I let it just happen on it's own. I still regret the way I did it in the first place, but it never worked. What worked was letting her use the potty when she was ready. Threatening with a cold shower would just make her fearful of toilet training, IMO.
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  #64  
November 24th, 2010, 10:09 AM
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I don't agree with it as a method, but I don't think it's abusive either. I take cold showers all the time, because hot water does bad things to my skin some days. I've never had trouble breathing or blacked out.
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  #65  
November 24th, 2010, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Keskes View Post
I don't agree with it as a method, but I don't think it's abusive either. I take cold showers all the time, because hot water does bad things to my skin some days. I've never had trouble breathing or blacked out.
It's your choice to take a cold shower and you're ready for it. Cold showers can be theraputic for some actually, but that doesn't mean it's not going to cause any harm/damage to a child who isn't ready for a chold shower or doesn't want one willingly.

Swimming or running through a sprinkler in the summer willingly is so much different then being put into a cold shower unwillingly.
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  #66  
November 24th, 2010, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Keskes View Post
I've never had trouble breathing or blacked out.
But some people do, and it's not an uncommon reaction. In hindsight, what caused me to stop breathing and pass out in that pool is probably what caused me to pass out last week. Any child could experience a life-threatening drop in blood pressure as a result of being thrown in a cold shower.

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What Causes a Sudden Drop in Blood Pressure?
Sudden drops in blood pressure can be life-threatening. Causes of this type of hypotension include:
  • Loss of blood from bleeding
  • Low body temperature
  • High body temperature
  • Heart muscle disease causing heart failure
  • Sepsis, a severe blood infection
  • Severe dehydration from vomiting, diarrhea, or fever
  • A reaction to medication or alcohol
  • A severe allergic reaction, called anaphylaxis
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  #67  
November 25th, 2010, 01:03 AM
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i actually know someone who would strip his son down, put him in the front yard and spray him with the hose..i do think that is abuse and no different then the cold shower other then thats inside. how horrible!
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  #68  
November 25th, 2010, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by r.t.mommy View Post
i actually know someone who would strip his son down, put him in the front yard and spray him with the hose..i do think that is abuse and no different then the cold shower other then thats inside. how horrible!
Public humiliation is abusive. The cold water aspect of it.. not so much. Also, this guy was using it as a punishment, which I do not even remotely agree with. I don't really "agree" with the concept of jolting the child out of a violent fit, but like I said, I try not to be judgmental towards situations I can't possibly understand.
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  #69  
November 25th, 2010, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ILOVEMYCO View Post
I don't know if a cold shower is considered abuse. Not everybody can afford the luxeries of hot water. Even if the child told, I do not think it is abuse. After all, a cold shower does not cause you to fall.
I've taken cold showers before too,but by choice or when I ran out of hot. When you force a child into the shower and run it cold that's when it becomes abuse. Most children wouldn't willingly get into a cold shower when they are in trouble so there may be a struggle and during that he or she could fall and get seriously hurt or even die if they hit their head.
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  #70  
November 25th, 2010, 09:15 AM
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So, people with children who don't want to take hot baths are also abusive? If it's the struggle to get the kid in the tub that's the problem, then I imagine a lot of people abuse their toddlers.
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  #71  
November 25th, 2010, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Keskes View Post
So, people with children who don't want to take hot baths are also abusive? If it's the struggle to get the kid in the tub that's the problem, then I imagine a lot of people abuse their toddlers.
There's a huge difference between using water to bathe a child and using it to punish a child.
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  #72  
November 25th, 2010, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Tersh View Post
There's a huge difference between using water to bathe a child and using it to punish a child.
But that's not what she complained about. She said "Most children wouldn't willingly get into a cold shower when they are in trouble so there may be a struggle and during that he or she could fall and get seriously hurt or even die if they hit their head." (Italics added)

Her issue doesn't seem to be with the cold water so much as the risk of trauma or death from being forced.
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  #73  
November 25th, 2010, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Keskes View Post
But that's not what she complained about. She said "Most children wouldn't willingly get into a cold shower when they are in trouble so there may be a struggle and during that he or she could fall and get seriously hurt or even die if they hit their head." (Italics added)

Her issue doesn't seem to be with the cold water so much as the risk of trauma or death from being forced.
Ah, gotcha. But, for me, if my child was kicking and screaming so much about a warm bath (can't see why this would be an ongoing thing, most kids love warm baths) and it was seeming like they would hit their head or something, I wouldn't force that either. They'd get a sponge bath or something.

Sometimes, Freddie throws himself backwards when I try to dress him. I have to dress him while he's running around to avoid him smashing his head back on the floor. You end up acommodating for what works.
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  #74  
November 25th, 2010, 10:08 AM
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With a warm bath that a toddler is not wanting and you have to "force" them to take it isn't abuse IMO b/c even though they may be scared you can do things to help calm them and get used to the bath.If they're scared that is. If they just don't want to take a bath for other reasons a parent should be able to find a way to get them to bathe or at least wash with out having to really force them so much that they'd get hurt. They can find a distraction or even a little bribe or something. Also the child wouldn't develop a fear of water later on like they might if they were forced into a cold shower as punishment.
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  #75  
November 25th, 2010, 10:16 AM
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So you're assuming that any parent who would use the cold shower method would force their child to do it no matter what? That's a pretty big assumption. If a parent is attempting to jolt the child out of a tantrum, chances are they aren't looking to injure their child whole forcing them into the tub, and would likely try to find something else if they couldn't do it safely.

I have never argued that a cold shower is never abusive. Obviously it can be. My only argument is that it is not inherently abusive, just because it's cold. Forcing a child into the tub and risking injury, doing it repeatedly, using it as punishment, doing it outside for everyone to see.. all of those would register on my abuse radar... and no one here has argued otherwise.
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  #76  
November 25th, 2010, 10:31 AM
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I just think that when bathing a child who doesn't really want to take a bath is very different then forcing them to take a cold shower. I think,but could be wrong a child might fight the cold shower punishment more then a warm bath that they needed.
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  #77  
November 26th, 2010, 06:12 PM
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Abuse, plain & simple.
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  #78  
January 18th, 2011, 12:40 AM
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I was dragged into cold showers as punishment when I was a child.

It wasn't until my late 20s that I realised it does come under the heading of child abuse.

My mother had mental problems and couldn't cope with me.

Any time I did something "wrong" (whatever that was) or I cried, she would grab me by the scruff of my neck and drag me into the shower (even in the middle of winter) fully clothed.

(I live in a place where the water temperature is quite cold. A cold shower even in summer is definitely cold, not tepid at all.)

I can tell you it is a terrible shock to the system and it is extremely distressing as a child.

All you want is for your parents to love you, not throw you into a cold shower.

If a child is crying, there is something wrong. A cold shower may shut them up - as it teaches you that if you stop crying, or don't cry, you won't get the cold shower in the first place - but it doesn't solve the problem.

I was also beaten with a leather belt (it had the buckle removed). My brother later chopped it into bits.

My mother would slap me, pinch me, etc. The last time she hit me was in my early 20s when she slapped me one day and I hit her back, harder. Then she realized that I could be more of a danger to her than she was to me. She stopped.

Now that I'm older she goes on about how terrible she was to do all these things. She knows I can walk away and never have anything to do with her again, her power is gone.

So in conclusion, I would say please don't ever put a child into a cold shower. It is abuse, no question about it.

(Happily, I've grown up to love the water. Just not my mom.)

I was dragged into cold showers as punishment when I was a child.

It wasn't until my late 20s that I realised it does come under the heading of child abuse.

My mother had mental problems and couldn't cope with me.

Any time I did something "wrong" (whatever that was) or I cried, she would grab me by the scruff of my neck and drag me into the shower (even in the middle of winter) fully clothed.

(I live in a place where the water temperature is quite cold. A cold shower even in summer is definitely cold, not tepid at all.)

I can tell you it is a terrible shock to the system and it is extremely distressing as a child.

All you want is for your parents to love you, not throw you into a cold shower.

If a child is crying, there is something wrong. A cold shower may shut them up - as it teaches you that if you stop crying, or don't cry, you won't get the cold shower in the first place - but it doesn't solve the problem...

I was also beaten with a leather belt (it had the buckle removed). My brother later chopped it into bits.

My mother would slap me, pinch me, etc. The last time she hit me was in my early 20s when she slapped me one day and I hit her back, harder. Then she realized that I could be more of a danger to her than she was to me. She stopped.

Now that I'm older she goes on about how terrible she was to do all these things. She knows I can walk away and never have anything to do with her again, her power is gone.

So in conclusion, I would say please don't ever put a child into a cold shower. It is abuse, no question about it.

(Happily, I've grown up to love the water. Just not my mom.)
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  #79  
January 18th, 2011, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by acupofjoe View Post
i actually know someone who would strip his son down, put him in the front yard and spray him with the hose..i do think that is abuse and no different then the cold shower other then thats inside. how horrible!
I agree that it is abusive. DH's oldest nephew was given cold water hose showers in the back yard by his bio mom when he was less than five years old. Then that woman would go take a warm shower. She and BIL had broke off their relationship and she had primary custody of A. Their neighbors reported her, fortunately, and due to that behavior (among others), BIL has custody. When A came to spend a weekend with DH and I while I was pregnant with Katie, he took long, hot showers. The reason I know this is that he came out of the bathroom and said "Aunt Beth, I like having hot water for showers. I hate cold water." A is now ten going on eleven and I just don't know how much his experiences with his bio mom (who he never mentions) have scarred him.
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Last edited by MomtoKatieB; January 18th, 2011 at 06:57 AM. Reason: Wanted to add one last thing
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  #80  
January 18th, 2011, 07:03 AM
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In my opinion, all of her punishments were abusive...hands down
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