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Taking an infant horseback riding


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  #41  
December 9th, 2010, 09:13 AM
foxfire_ga79
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I think the horse being led by someone other than the rider is a totally different situation. Whoever controls the head controls the horse. Then the person riding with the baby can focus only on their balance and holding the baby, and not trying to control the horse all at the same time. The person on the ground has better control of the horse.

And those pony rides are with the horses attached to a carousel. They CAN'T go anywhere but in circles. They are so dead broke you could probably set off fireworks under their stomachs and they'd just yawn. Most people don't have horses that are that desensitized. Carousel ponies are ridden only in circles, very slowly, for hours a day, being exposed to children and all their nonsense.
Very different from a horse that's used for pleasure riding that still has more than just a spark of life left in it.
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  #42  
December 9th, 2010, 09:26 AM
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A horse being led by someone is still horseback riding for the infant. Horseback riding for the disabled is still horseback riding. Even though they have someone leading the horse - and depending on the severity of the disability multiple people on either side of the horse - it's still horseback riding.

What about children just riding horses? There are riding lessons that start in 1st grade or so. Is that child endangerment? The horse could spook and throw the child and they could get severely injured. I highly doubt your average 1st-5th grader could control a spooked, runaway horse/pony.
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  #43  
December 9th, 2010, 09:30 AM
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A horse being led by someone is still horseback riding for the infant. Horseback riding for the disabled is still horseback riding. Even though they have someone leading the horse - and depending on the severity of the disability multiple people on either side of the horse - it's still horseback riding.

What about children just riding horses? There are riding lessons that start in 1st grade or so. Is that child endangerment? The horse could spook and throw the child and they could get severely injured. I highly doubt your average 1st-5th grader could control a spooked, runaway horse/pony.
Your 1st grader has a choice. They can ask for riding lessons and they can be taught about horses. They can understand, and give basic commands and they can be prepared for if something happens. An infant is just strapped to your body for your own enjoyment and so you can say you carried on a tradition.

Honest question, can a horse not get spooked and buck if somebody else is leading it? Does being able to see the barn make a horse less of a wild animal?
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  #44  
December 9th, 2010, 09:48 AM
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Yes a horse can still get spooked and buck if it is being led, but being led lessens the chance of the horse getting out of control. There is someone right there to calm the horse down. No being able to see the barn does not make is less of a "wild" animal. Being able to see that barn or the house has nothing really to do with the horse getting spooked, just that if someone does end up happening you aren't stranded out on the middle of nowhere.

I highly, HIGHLY doubt someone would take their baby on a green horse. Even riding stables use older, desensitized, stable animals that have a very low risk of getting out of control. Not everyone has an older, desensitized, stable horse. If you only have wild, highly spirited animals, you probably should not take your infant horseback riding with you.

I do concede in some cases it can be highly irresponsible and possibly child endangerment, I've said that already. However, that does not apply to every single case scenario of an infant/young toddler getting on the back of the horse.

ETA: Had some redundant statements.
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  #45  
December 9th, 2010, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by foxfire_ga79 View Post
I think the horse being led by someone other than the rider is a totally different situation. Whoever controls the head controls the horse. Then the person riding with the baby can focus only on their balance and holding the baby, and not trying to control the horse all at the same time. The person on the ground has better control of the horse.

And those pony rides are with the horses attached to a carousel. They CAN'T go anywhere but in circles. They are so dead broke you could probably set off fireworks under their stomachs and they'd just yawn. Most people don't have horses that are that desensitized. Carousel ponies are ridden only in circles, very slowly, for hours a day, being exposed to children and all their nonsense.
Very different from a horse that's used for pleasure riding that still has more than just a spark of life left in it.
The one we were at wasn't attached to anything, and it was at a fair. It was a really big pen with maybe three horses and experienced horse...uh people that did the 'rides'. I don't see this much different than what is being talked about. I do understand what you're saying about horses that are desensitized. That makes sense.
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  #46  
December 9th, 2010, 09:58 AM
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Yes a horse can still get spooked and buck if it is being led, but being led lessens the chance of the horse getting out of control. There is someone right there to calm the horse down. No being able to see the barn does not make is less of a "wild" animal. Being able to see that barn or the house has nothing really to do with the horse getting spooked, just that if someone does end up happening you aren't stranded out on the middle of nowhere.

I highly, HIGHLY doubt someone would take their baby on a green horse. Even riding stables use older, desensitized, stable animals that have a very low risk of getting out of control. Not everyone has an older, desensitized, stable horse. If you only have wild, highly spirited animals, you probably should not take your infant horseback riding with you.

I do concede in some cases it can be highly irresponsible and possibly child endangerment, I've said that already. However, that does not apply to every single case scenario of an infant/young toddler getting on the back of the horse.

ETA: Had some redundant statements.
I went horseback riding for my cousins birthday when I was around 8 years old. All of the horses were calm, desensitized stable horses and yet still, one of the girls got bucked off of the back of a horse because it got spooked.

How does a person responsibly take an infant child that can't (or shouldn't) wear a helmet onto the back of a horse?
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  #47  
December 9th, 2010, 11:29 AM
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Have you not been reading my posts? I've already outlined situations where I would feel a person is being responsible in taking an infant on the back of a horse, and where they would be highly irresponsible in taking an infant on the back of a horse. Also, I never said there were any spook-free horses. There are horses with very low risk of shying/spooking. Lots of people have dogs around their infants and children, even though there is still a risk the dog could snap and bite. Are they being irresponsible by having a dog around their children even though there is still a chance the dog could bite and injure one of them?

Responsible situation #1:
-Being in an enclosed, controlled space such as a corral or small area
-Having the horse on a lead with someone at its head, and/or having more people at the sides of the horse.
-Using a trusted, desensitized, low-spook horse
-Not going faster than a walk

Responsible Situation #2:
-Staying very close to the barn/house
-Being in a wide, open area to minimize risk of something popping up and scaring the horse
-Riding with multiple people around you.
-Again, using a calm, trusted, desensitized horse.
-Not going faster than a walk

Irresponsible Situation:
- Using your high-spirited, high-energy horse
- Going faster than a walk
-Going through woods/far away from the house/barn

My mom has pictures somewhere of me and all my siblings on the back of a horse with her. I love looking at those pictures. My aunt has all the pictures from her children, my family, and all my other aunts/uncles who have participated. Infants can't really enjoy going trick-or-treating, but people still do it to make memories. I'm not so quick to call abuse/child endangerment/parental irresponsibility as some, and I'm perfectly ok with that. I won't stop something innocent and fun the whole family will enjoy because of a possible risk of injury. If I did, we wouldn't go to playgrounds, or drive the car, and I wouldn't let my children help me cook, and we wouldn't have animals.
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  #48  
December 9th, 2010, 11:58 AM
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Have you not been reading my posts? I've already outlined situations where I would feel a person is being responsible in taking an infant on the back of a horse, and where they would be highly irresponsible in taking an infant on the back of a horse. Also, I never said there were any spook-free horses. There are horses with very low risk of shying/spooking. Lots of people have dogs around their infants and children, even though there is still a risk the dog could snap and bite. Are they being irresponsible by having a dog around their children even though there is still a chance the dog could bite and injure one of them?

Responsible situation #1:
-Being in an enclosed, controlled space such as a corral or small area
-Having the horse on a lead with someone at its head, and/or having more people at the sides of the horse.
-Using a trusted, desensitized, low-spook horse
-Not going faster than a walk

Responsible Situation #2:
-Staying very close to the barn/house
-Being in a wide, open area to minimize risk of something popping up and scaring the horse
-Riding with multiple people around you.
-Again, using a calm, trusted, desensitized horse.
-Not going faster than a walk

Irresponsible Situation:
- Using your high-spirited, high-energy horse
- Going faster than a walk
-Going through woods/far away from the house/barn

My mom has pictures somewhere of me and all my siblings on the back of a horse with her. I love looking at those pictures. My aunt has all the pictures from her children, my family, and all my other aunts/uncles who have participated. Infants can't really enjoy going trick-or-treating, but people still do it to make memories. I'm not so quick to call abuse/child endangerment/parental irresponsibility as some, and I'm perfectly ok with that. I won't stop something innocent and fun the whole family will enjoy because of a possible risk of injury. If I did, we wouldn't go to playgrounds, or drive the car, and I wouldn't let my children help me cook, and we wouldn't have animals.
I don't think it's child endangerment but I just don't see how it's ever responsible. Even in each of your scenarios, it still puts the child at an unnecessary risk for something that is purely for the parents enjoyment and ability to say they did it.

It is MORE responsible to stay close to home, use a horse that is at a low risk of spooking and make sure others are around than to NOT do those things but that doesn't make it a responsible choice.

If I allow a dog around my child, they COULD bite but I am not going to put them in a situation that makes it even more of a risk. If you stand in the corrall and introduce your child to the horse, it COULD still get spooked and trample the both of you but it's not as much of a risk as if you are on the horses back, unbalanced, with a baby who has no idea what's going on.
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  #49  
December 9th, 2010, 12:20 PM
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Just wanted to add a thought in here. I noticed some of the ladies that bring up the horse rides at the carnival argument are talking about older babies/toddlers (8-9 months I saw on a post, and older) that have much more neck control and more developed neck muscles, etc. The OP was talking about infants, who have less developed neck muscles/control. I can see if the child were older and that it wouldn't be as much of a danger, but with an infant, it is a much higher risk (specifically speaking of the neck aspect). And besides, I really don't think that the horse ride operators (or whatever the proper name is), would allow an infant on the horse ride...although I could be wrong
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  #50  
December 9th, 2010, 12:30 PM
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Technically, you are more at risk of being trampled while on the ground than on the horse's back. In most cases of being thrown, you will fall to the side or behind the horse, and the horse will keep running the way they were going. It's the rodeo bulls and horses that turn right around and try to trample the people that were on their back.

So are you not going to let your children around your dog? Dogs can get annoyed and bite over little things, like accidentally stepping on a tail, being played with too much, being laid down on. Even the friendliest family dog can still bite over something that seems insignificant.

We may just have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't feel my responsible scenarios are all that dangerous and irresponsible, and you feel they very much are. A lot of things parents do with their infants are purely for the adult's enjoyment and the baby has no idea what is going on, but the activity still makes for from pretty special memories. Ear piercing, infant baptizing, taking them trick-or-treating. There was a story a while back about how an infant drowned from being baptized. There is that risk, but people still do it. There are risks to infant ear piercing, but people still do it. There are unnecessary risks to a LOT of things we do daily, but we still do them.

ETA: I'm pretty sure babies are considered infants until they are a year or so. My 7 month old is in size 3 infant shoes and in all the clothing stores they have infant clothes and toddler clothes separated. Infant clothes go up to 12 months. I have stated in a previous post I don't think you should take a newborn or an infant who could not sit up on their own.
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  #51  
December 9th, 2010, 12:45 PM
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I just want to add that 8-9 months is still an infant. When the topic was started, I was thinking of older infants (8 months plus), not newborns who couldn't hold their own head up. There is still the risks people have mentioned, but a newborn on a horse would be a "WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING?!" moment for me, but an older infant who can at least sit up - not as much.
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  #52  
December 9th, 2010, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Linzie View Post
A horse being led by someone is still horseback riding for the infant. Horseback riding for the disabled is still horseback riding. Even though they have someone leading the horse - and depending on the severity of the disability multiple people on either side of the horse - it's still horseback riding.

What about children just riding horses? There are riding lessons that start in 1st grade or so. Is that child endangerment? The horse could spook and throw the child and they could get severely injured. I highly doubt your average 1st-5th grader could control a spooked, runaway horse/pony.
Around my country hick town, we start lessons at 3 years old. I am sending DD over the summer for her 5th birthday for a week long camp (not overnights).



I don't see this any different than being around other animals.
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  #53  
December 9th, 2010, 01:39 PM
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Technically, you are more at risk of being trampled while on the ground than on the horse's back. In most cases of being thrown, you will fall to the side or behind the horse, and the horse will keep running the way they were going. It's the rodeo bulls and horses that turn right around and try to trample the people that were on their back.

So are you not going to let your children around your dog? Dogs can get annoyed and bite over little things, like accidentally stepping on a tail, being played with too much, being laid down on. Even the friendliest family dog can still bite over something that seems insignificant.

We may just have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't feel my responsible scenarios are all that dangerous and irresponsible, and you feel they very much are. A lot of things parents do with their infants are purely for the adult's enjoyment and the baby has no idea what is going on, but the activity still makes for from pretty special memories. Ear piercing, infant baptizing, taking them trick-or-treating. There was a story a while back about how an infant drowned from being baptized. There is that risk, but people still do it. There are risks to infant ear piercing, but people still do it. There are unnecessary risks to a LOT of things we do daily, but we still do them.

ETA: I'm pretty sure babies are considered infants until they are a year or so. My 7 month old is in size 3 infant shoes and in all the clothing stores they have infant clothes and toddler clothes separated. Infant clothes go up to 12 months. I have stated in a previous post I don't think you should take a newborn or an infant who could not sit up on their own.
I guess you're right. I just can't understand how the choice to put your child in that kind of danger could be seen as responsible, no matter the precautions taken.

If your horse bucked you off and your child was killed, would you feel that you made a responsible choice?

As far as dogs go, I do let my daughter around dogs, but I teach her the proper way to treat them and when she was too young to understand I didn't allow the dogs to get too close to her. I take precautions to make her as safe as possible around dogs, rather than place her into situations that increase her risk of being injured by the dog, just as I would a horse.
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  #54  
December 9th, 2010, 02:18 PM
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I do not see as dangerous and horrible as you and others are making it out to be. In every case of my family taking their babies for a ride around the corral with all my precautions taken nothing has happened. It has been a happy, fun filled occassion and I an looking forward to it very much. You can't make me feel like a horrible mother because don't see it as a right thing to do. I honestly do not feel I am putting him or myself in this awful amount of danger. I have weighed the risks, i know the risks, and I will show pictures of our wonderful time and his smiling face when we get back from our Christmas trip.

I have already stated many times that there are scenarios where it would be highly irresponsible and dangerous. We take every precaution and heavily enjoy making the memories and showing them to the kids when they get older.

As to your question, would anyone in any situation where their child gets killed feel they had made a responsible choice?
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  #55  
December 9th, 2010, 02:24 PM
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I suppose infant wasn't the best term to use. I saw the video from the 16 & Pregnant episode that the OP is referring to and the baby was only 1 month old. So when replying to the OP, I go by the baby in the video. Just wanted to clarify
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  #56  
December 9th, 2010, 02:28 PM
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I do not see as dangerous and horrible as you and others are making it out to be. In every case of my family taking their babies for a ride around the corral with all my precautions taken nothing has happened. It has been a happy, fun filled occassion and I an looking forward to it very much. You can't make me feel like a horrible mother because don't see it as a right thing to do. I honestly do not feel I am putting him or myself in this awful amount of danger. I have weighed the risks, i know the risks, and I will show pictures of our wonderful time and his smiling face when we get back from our Christmas trip.

I have already stated many times that there are scenarios where it would be highly irresponsible and dangerous. We take every precaution and heavily enjoy making the memories and showing them to the kids when they get older.

As to your question, would anyone in any situation where their child gets killed feel they had made a responsible choice?
There are a lot of things that parents do where their children turn out fine, but that doesn't mean it's the best or most responsible choice.

Everytime I have gotten into a car, I have made it home safely. Does that mean I won't die a in a crash tomorrow? Nope. Just because you've seen others do it safely or have done it safely before doesn't make it responsible or safe.

If sky-diving were a tradition for your family, would you take your 8 month sky-diving?

ETA: In your risk-benefit analysis, what is the benefit to your child that you came up with? You say you've weighed the risks to your child, so you must also have weighed the benefit to your child and I am just curious as to what he's going to get out of it.
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  #57  
December 9th, 2010, 02:31 PM
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Apples and oranges. Jumping over 10,000 feet from an airplane and free falling through the sky is NOT the same as taking your baby for a few laps around the corral on the back of a horse.
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  #58  
December 9th, 2010, 02:44 PM
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Apples and oranges. Jumping over 10,000 feet from an airplane and free falling through the sky is NOT the same as taking your baby for a few laps around the corral on the back of a horse.
How is it different? Both carry certain risks and if you are comparing the risks, I don't see how it's much different. As long as your parachute works properly, you and your baby are going to be pretty safe. As long as your horse decides to behave, you and your baby will be pretty safe.

I think you missed my earlier question as well. You said that you've considered the risks, so I would take that to also mean you've considered the benefits. What would the benefit to your child be?
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  #59  
December 9th, 2010, 03:01 PM
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vs.




That poor, poor child =( I can smell the danger from here!
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  #60  
December 9th, 2010, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Babybear4 View Post
How is it different? Both carry certain risks and if you are comparing the risks, I don't see how it's much different. As long as your parachute works properly, you and your baby are going to be pretty safe. As long as your horse decides to behave, you and your baby will be pretty safe.

I think you missed my earlier question as well. You said that you've considered the risks, so I would take that to also mean you've considered the benefits. What would the benefit to your child be?
Well, since we are going this route, how is taking your baby for a ride different than riding in a car? As long as no one decides to drive crazy and nothing freaky happens, and you keep your eyes on the road you should be fine.

Benefits would be a new experience, new sights, new smells, new sounds, new textures, and more for his little brain to process and think about.

ETA:
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vs.




That poor, poor child =( I can smell the danger from here!
Oh yes, I see now how they are same. Shame on me!
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