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Suicide attempt while pregnant = attempted murder?


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  #1  
December 13th, 2010, 09:25 AM
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Pretty self-explanatory. Yesterday at work, an outside agency was attempting to charge a pregnant woman who overdosed on prescription meds and survived with the attempted murder of her fetus. I don't know how far along she is.

Some states do allow for charges when a pregnant woman is murdered if the fetus was potentially viable outside of the womb, but I've never heard of someone being charged in a suicide attempt. Too much of a slippery slope? Totally justified?
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  #2  
December 13th, 2010, 09:35 AM
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If charges would be brought against someone who tried to kill their fetus without killing themselves in the process, then this woman should perhaps face charges as well. However, like most suicide attempts, I think she needs counseling/therapy/help more than she needs a jail sentence.
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  #3  
December 13th, 2010, 09:49 AM
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I think it's totally justified.
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  #4  
December 13th, 2010, 09:51 AM
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i see both sides, yes she did try to kill the baby, but there was obviously a reason she trie to kill herself and she needs help
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  #5  
December 13th, 2010, 09:56 AM
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If trying to kill yourself while pregnant is attempted murder, why isn't abortion considered murder? Both would end the pregnancy. I'm just thinking out loud on that, but that is what entered my mind first.
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  #6  
December 13th, 2010, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chloe'sMommy View Post
If trying to kill yourself while pregnant is attempted murder, why isn't abortion considered murder? Both would end the pregnancy. I'm just thinking out loud on that, but that is what entered my mind first.

Ditto.
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  #7  
December 13th, 2010, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chloe'sMommy View Post
If trying to kill yourself while pregnant is attempted murder, why isn't abortion considered murder? Both would end the pregnancy. I'm just thinking out loud on that, but that is what entered my mind first.
I think it would depend upon how far along the woman was. If the baby was viable, I believe it absolutely should be considered attempted murder and at the point of viability, I don't think abortions are legal in most states, either.
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  #8  
December 13th, 2010, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babybear4 View Post
I think it would depend upon how far along the woman was. If the baby was viable, I believe it absolutely should be considered attempted murder and at the point of viability, I don't think abortions are legal in most states, either.
Huh? Do you mean you don't think abortions past the point of viability are legal in most states **? I'm not sure where it is and isn't legal, but I know they do happen. If you (obviously not you personally) charge this lady with attempted murder because the fetus is past the point of viability, wouldn't you have to charge every lady that gets a late term abortion with the same thing?

**I think this is what you were saying but the whole sentence got jumbled up in my head.
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Last edited by Chloe'sMommy; December 13th, 2010 at 12:02 PM.
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  #9  
December 13th, 2010, 12:21 PM
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If the State is one of those that actually tries to charge a person with attempted murder on a suicide, then I see nothing wrong with bringing up charges if the mother was far enough along to deliver a viable baby. If the State doesn't bother to file attempted murder charges on suicide attempts, then no it's not justified.
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  #10  
December 13th, 2010, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chloe'sMommy View Post
Huh? Do you mean you don't think abortions past the point of viability are legal in most states **? I'm not sure where it is and isn't legal, but I know they do happen. If you (obviously not you personally) charge this lady with attempted murder because the fetus is past the point of viability, wouldn't you have to charge every lady that gets a late term abortion with the same thing?

**I think this is what you were saying but the whole sentence got jumbled up in my head.
The sentence I wrote said: at the point of viability, I don't think abortions are legal in most states, either. I should have said: I don't think abortions are legal at the point of viability in most states, either.

Regardless, I do personally believe a woman should be charged for late term abortions as well, unless it was performed to save the mothers life, which is usually the only legal way a woman could have a late term abortion, anyway.
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  #11  
December 13th, 2010, 12:55 PM
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Oh, okay the way you worded the second one made a lot more sense.
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  #12  
December 13th, 2010, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babybear4 View Post
The sentence I wrote said: at the point of viability, I don't think abortions are legal in most states, either. I should have said: I don't think abortions are legal at the point of viability in most states, either.

Regardless, I do personally believe a woman should be charged for late term abortions as well, unless it was performed to save the mothers life, which is usually the only legal way a woman could have a late term abortion, anyway.
This is what I'm pretty sure the law is in most states - third trimester abortions are illegal unless it's a matter of the mother's life. If that's the case in her state, then obviously she could be charged with murder. However, if she was attempting to kill herself in order to kill the baby (as opposed to the pregnancy just not stopping her from taking her own life), then she should be charged.

Really without knowing the specifics - like how far along she was, her state of mind at the time, the laws in her state (I assume it's Colorado, but don't want to base my argument on an assumption) - I can't make a solid decision.
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  #13  
December 13th, 2010, 02:20 PM
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I think if the fetus was past the point of viability, then yes, she should be charged with murder. A drunk driver who kills a mother and her unborn child and is charged with murder because the fetus is old enough to survive outside of the womb isn't much different than someone who tried to commit suicide while pregnant with a child who is viable outside of the womb.

I think if the fetus was not viable, however, she should not be charged. Abortion is legal up to what... 24 weeks, I think? I remember looking for an ob-gyn when I was pregnant with E and seeing an ad for a doctor who does abortions up to 24 weeks.
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  #14  
December 13th, 2010, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chloe'sMommy View Post
If trying to kill yourself while pregnant is attempted murder, why isn't abortion considered murder? Both would end the pregnancy. I'm just thinking out loud on that, but that is what entered my mind first.
It's a very slippery slope because of the above ^^

She needs help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamamandeux View Post

I think if the fetus was not viable, however, she should not be charged. Abortion is legal up to what... 24 weeks, I think? I remember looking for an ob-gyn when I was pregnant with E and seeing an ad for a doctor who does abortions up to 24 weeks.

Doesn't it depend on what state you are in?
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  #15  
December 13th, 2010, 08:13 PM
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she clearly needs help and should be considered a mental health patient first.
Poor thing.
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  #16  
December 13th, 2010, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayandsofiasmommy View Post

Doesn't it depend on what state you are in?
I thought about that after I posted. In FL, where I used to live, it was 24 weeks. It does depend on where you live, though.
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  #17  
December 13th, 2010, 09:50 PM
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Yup, adding criminal charges really helps the situation. I mean if she was depressed before...

I think those considering the charges should try to figure out how she could have killed herself without killing the baby. I dont see any OB taking a baby by a c-section at say 34 weeks because the mother says that she needs it gone so she can kill herself in peace. Waiting until after the birth is another set of hassles (and waiting when you are that depressed feels pretty impossible anyway).
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  #18  
December 14th, 2010, 06:06 AM
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I'm torn on this. I believe the unborn child has a right to life, and to kill it is murder. However, to charge a woman in such distress that she attempted suicide just gives me an icky feeling. She needs help, not jail time.

Now, if she'd tried to kill just the unborn child and not herself, I would absolutely agree with charging her.
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  #19  
December 14th, 2010, 06:11 AM
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To be honest, I don't believe the woman that wanted so badly to die was even thinking about the life she carried. She just wanted to end her life. If anything, throw a "negligent" attempted in there or something. I don't believe she even thought it out past just taking the pills.
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  #20  
December 14th, 2010, 09:35 AM
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It's one of those slippery slope things to me. I can not one hand support a women's right to choose under the belief her rights come before that of an unborn child then on the other charge her for attempting to end both her and her child's life. (kind of jumbled I know and I'm sure littered with spelling errors, oh how I miss my computer with the chrome).

Would we charge a woman who lost a baby from listeria poisoning from deli meats with reckless endangerment or manslaughter?

I think she needs help with whatever personal issues she may have going on and that should be the end of it.
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