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  #21  
March 1st, 2011, 10:03 AM
HappyHippy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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No body said they know more than you, just that a beauty pagent is based on beauty, otherwise it wouldn't be a beauty pagent. I've never seen them on TV, only on commercials, but never watched the shows, but I have been to a few in real life and they are based on their outfits and looks, not really what talent they have.
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  #22  
March 1st, 2011, 10:24 AM
foxfire_ga79
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Explain how my daughter won Best Personality at one of her pageants? She didn't win any of the awards geared toward outward beauty (best eyes, smile, hair.....) They ask interview questions to be read off while the girl is on stage and the questions involve best school subject, desired occupation, hobbies, extra curricular activities, etc. In order for her to have gotten a Best Personality win, they must have seen something in her personal profile that made her stand out from the rest where her physical looks didn't.
Yet, here there are people telling me that beauty contests only judge external physical beauty. I KNOW what I have seen, I KNOW what my own daughter has won.
Not all pageants are the same, they are run by private organizations and each one makes up their own rules. The main one whose pageants I attend, I've spoken with the owner a lot, directly. She runs her pageants so that all girls who participate get a tiara and trophy because she doesn't want anyone excluded. And they're not dinky little trinket trophies, the ones DD has are 18" tall. This woman forbids fake hair, teeth and spray tans and mandates minimal age appropriate make up. They announce results in such a way that at the end of the pageant, all the girls felt like they won something. None ever leaves in tears, it's all smiles as everyone leaves.
I like that owner's attitude toward the whole thing. Pageants can be fun with the right directors.
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  #23  
March 1st, 2011, 10:35 AM
foxfire_ga79
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Here is the list of rules for the circuit DD and I like best.

Pageant Rules

Notice how they forbid national glitz dresses and permit "Sunday best" along side standard pageant dresses with no points deducted. Look at their rules about hair and make up and so on.
This company also does several "jeans and white t shirt" pageants throughout the year.
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  #24  
March 1st, 2011, 10:37 AM
3Kendra3's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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I think the glitz pageants are cute ONLY as far as TV goes. Never would enter my children into those. Moms seem pushy.

My daughter has showed interest and even acts like she is in one so we do a dress up one for her (no tan nails or anything) if I had money I would put her in one but don't think I would enjoy being a pageant mom, I'm more the "you look beautiful as you are." Type person. But the glitz I do think is to far. I wouldn't support them but I do like watching the show.
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  #25  
March 1st, 2011, 10:42 AM
HappyHippy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I know how pagents are. I have a friend who is a pagent mom. Not only does she have her 2 boys and 1 girl in them, she also makes and sells dresses and accessories. She does both glitz and natural. No one is denying that there aren't other areas in pagents, even in Ms. America and what not they have a talent portion, but it's still a beauty pagent. If it wasn't based on beauty, then it would simply be a talent competition.
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Last edited by HappyHippy; March 1st, 2011 at 10:45 AM.
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  #26  
March 1st, 2011, 10:58 AM
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I am completely against them, natural or glitz. If my daughter showed an interest, I would encourage her to do gymnastics or some kind of team sport where she could learn actual life skills, not how to shake her tushy and blow kisses to the judges in hopes of being told she's the prettiest girl on stage.
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  #27  
March 1st, 2011, 11:12 AM
tiredmom's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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I'm not majorly against them, but why not put that time, money, and energy into getting them excited about something that will serve them better as adults, such as a love of sports, academics, or music?
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  #28  
March 1st, 2011, 12:29 PM
eash's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxfire_ga79 View Post
Here is the list of rules for the circuit DD and I like best.

Pageant Rules

Notice how they forbid national glitz dresses and permit "Sunday best" along side standard pageant dresses with no points deducted. Look at their rules about hair and make up and so on.
This company also does several "jeans and white t shirt" pageants throughout the year.
Haha, we don't judge on facial beauty. If that was the case, why not put a bag over the kid's heads. I don't get it.
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  #29  
March 1st, 2011, 12:52 PM
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I am not against pageants as a whole, but moreso against anything in the extreme. DD says she wants to be a "pageant girl", but her interests change daily. There are always people that take things over the top, whether it be sports, cheerleading, gymnastics, etc. and pageants are no different. I don' think they have to be something bad, they are portrayed in a bad light, and we never see a show with the positives, only the negative crazy moms and little girls screaming and crying.
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  #30  
March 1st, 2011, 01:50 PM
foxfire_ga79
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Well if you don't like pageants that's fine. To each their own. But I happen to like the natural pageants with that company, as does my daughter. I never initiated pageants to her, she came to me with a flier from school and said her friends were doing the pageant and she wanted to, too. Why would I deny her an experience she wants to have in her life? It doesn't hurt me, it doesn't hurt her, and it's something she can add to her list of things she's done.
And since this thread is asking our opinions on it, I gave my opinion and backed up why I believe my opinion is acceptable. And since people's views of pageants are merely opinions there is no right or wrong answer.
And saying that the girls should put bags over their heads if not being judged on facial beauty doesn't make any more sense than having soccer players wear hand cuffs because they aren't supposed to use their hands.
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  #31  
March 1st, 2011, 03:30 PM
angelsailor288's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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foxfire those kind of pageants you are talking about sound OK to me. If I had a daughter and she showed interest in that, I wouldnt mind letting her try it out. Theres nothing wrong with showing off our beauty as well as talents and personality.

Its the glitz ones and the people that take it way too seriously that bother me.
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  #32  
March 1st, 2011, 03:43 PM
eash's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxfire_ga79 View Post
Well if you don't like pageants that's fine. To each their own. But I happen to like the natural pageants with that company, as does my daughter. I never initiated pageants to her, she came to me with a flier from school and said her friends were doing the pageant and she wanted to, too. Why would I deny her an experience she wants to have in her life? It doesn't hurt me, it doesn't hurt her, and it's something she can add to her list of things she's done.
And since this thread is asking our opinions on it, I gave my opinion and backed up why I believe my opinion is acceptable. And since people's views of pageants are merely opinions there is no right or wrong answer.
And saying that the girls should put bags over their heads if not being judged on facial beauty doesn't make any more sense than having soccer players wear hand cuffs because they aren't supposed to use their hands.
Part of parenting is deciding what is best for our children. If our children come to us with desires that will ultimately harm them, as parents, we need to step up and say no. Just because it is an experience or thing she has done, does not make it acceptable or add to her self esteem.
I never said you were wrong. You are imposing your own parenting insecurities on my statements.
Finally, you, yourself stated that these are beauty pageants and yet the rules state that they are not basing the judgment on facial beauty. Doesn't that sound ridiculous? Soccer players do not score with their hands, pageant girls get scored on their beauty. That is the analogy and it doesn't work.
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  #33  
March 1st, 2011, 04:13 PM
foxfire_ga79
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I don't have any parenting insecurities so you can drop that issue right now. And are you insinuating that I have harmed my daughter by allowing her to walk on a stage? Then I guess I also am harming her when I register her for soccer knowing that at some point she's going to fall and hurt something. I'm putting her in harm's way when I take her to tumbling. I'm REALLY being a bad parent for letting my sons play football.
And what's your obsession with the face being the only part of a person that would be considered beautiful? Get over it. It's not ridiculous at all for me to have made that comparison. It's pretty shallow of you to think that beauty can only be judged in a face, just as shallow as the people that have to go crazy with the full glitz. Being scored on "beauty" does not equal being scored on "a beautiful face."
If my daughter asked me to do something that would cause actual harm, I know how to step up and be a parent. I've been doing that for 13 years, and you have no business taking cheap shots at my parenting style just because it doesn't fall in line with your OPINIONS.
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  #34  
March 1st, 2011, 05:50 PM
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I don't know if they are harmful because I wasn't involved with them as a child. They seem really superficial though and I don't like that side of it.

I see people enter their 2 and 3 year olds in pageants and it is all about the parents. What 2 year old gives a **** about pageants unless they want to make mommy and daddy happy?
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  #35  
March 1st, 2011, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by tiredmom View Post
I'm not majorly against them, but why not put that time, money, and energy into getting them excited about something that will serve them better as adults, such as a love of sports, academics, or music?
This.

I mean really... if this wasn't a beauty pageant and they truly didn't judge based on how cute or handsome a kid was... then why bother? It's not like they get to truly show their talent on stage. Instead, they are given a short period of time to act like a trained monkey in a skill that really isn't a skill at all. For example, I've seen kids do magic tricks. Sure that's cool and all, but it's really nothing that can compare to a true talent, such as a musical instrument or a sport. Those that do use instruments have 30 seconds to show off their skill. That's just lame.

Why not allow much more time to truly shine and enter their kid in a sport team? A musical class that performs? An art exhibition? Ya know, talents that can truly stick with a kid their entire lives.

Standing pretty in front of a crowd for a minute can only get you so far.

I just am so against the idea that we have kids getting the notion that they can be judged on looks. If you want to do that as an adult, so be it. But to show little kids that a "perfect" smile and pretty hair can win you things... is that really something you want to teach your kids?

I tell my kid she's beautiful every day. She knows this isn't because of her looks, she knows its because she's a good person, she's smart, she has artistic talents, and wants to help kids that don't have the stuff she does. That makes her beautiful. You can't see that smiling in front of a stage. So putting her on a stage and having others judge her outward beauty is just silly to me. Kids should know what true beauty is... that which comes from within. Not that which comes from standing in front of a judge for 30 seconds smiling.
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  #36  
March 1st, 2011, 06:43 PM
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I have very little first hand knowledge of children's pageants, so I am just going on what I have personally witnessed and please understand this is just the behavior of one mother, so don't think I am saying that all pageant parents are like this. The girl went to school with my sister and started pageants when she was a toddler. By the time M was in kindergarten, her mother was packing her a lunch which consisted of a thermos of water, a bag of baby carrots and some celery because she was concerned that M would not look good in the pageants. Please understand that this woman was an elementary school teacher who did not understand when M was a teenager how her daughter ended up to be so severely anorexic that she required in-patient treatment in order to stop her from starving herself. I am not saying that worrying about her daughter's weight at age five caused the anorexia, but I can't say that it was not a contributing factor.
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  #37  
March 2nd, 2011, 06:33 AM
AMDG's Avatar Margaret
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I think if someone gave me a list of hundreds of activities for my children to be involved in and I had to rank them in order of preference - beauty pageants would be dead last! Yuk.
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  #38  
March 2nd, 2011, 07:13 AM
eash's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxfire_ga79 View Post
I don't have any parenting insecurities so you can drop that issue right now. And are you insinuating that I have harmed my daughter by allowing her to walk on a stage? Then I guess I also am harming her when I register her for soccer knowing that at some point she's going to fall and hurt something. I'm putting her in harm's way when I take her to tumbling. I'm REALLY being a bad parent for letting my sons play football.
And what's your obsession with the face being the only part of a person that would be considered beautiful? Get over it. It's not ridiculous at all for me to have made that comparison. It's pretty shallow of you to think that beauty can only be judged in a face, just as shallow as the people that have to go crazy with the full glitz. Being scored on "beauty" does not equal being scored on "a beautiful face."
If my daughter asked me to do something that would cause actual harm, I know how to step up and be a parent. I've been doing that for 13 years, and you have no business taking cheap shots at my parenting style just because it doesn't fall in line with your OPINIONS.

Yet again, this is a debate. I am stating an opinion. You are taking this personal. I could care less what you do with your children.
Yes, I find beauty pageants shallow. Yes, I find it odd that beauty pageants claim they don't judge on facial beauty - are they judging on beautiful feet? Yes, I think that it can cause some self esteem issues when you are judged for your physical attributes at such a young age.
Whether you want to take that as me calling you a bad parent is up to you and your own parenting insecurities. I am merely answering a debate topic.
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  #39  
March 2nd, 2011, 08:43 AM
SusieQ2's Avatar Jersey Girl
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I have no desire to parade my child across a stage and have him or her judged on beauty. Watching Toddlers in Tiaras breaks my heart when I see how upset those girls are that they didn't win. Sure kids can be upset that they didn't win their soccer game but a sport is something they can practice and improve. To be told you aren't pretty enough to win can really be damaging to a child's self esteem.

I also don't want my kids growing up thinking that pretty=best. Pageants are just something I'll never understand. For the very young kids' pageants I think it's more about the parent. Your 2 year old doesn't need to be in a pageant. You are just enjoying parading her across the stage and having everyone comment on how she is because it makes you feel good.

I enjoy when people tell me my kids are cute when we go out somewhere but I don't want to purposely put them in a position where they are judged on their cuteness.
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  #40  
March 2nd, 2011, 12:28 PM
foxfire_ga79
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Originally Posted by eashley View Post

Yet again, this is a debate. I am stating an opinion. You are taking this personal. I could care less what you do with your children.
Yes, I find beauty pageants shallow. Yes, I find it odd that beauty pageants claim they don't judge on facial beauty - are they judging on beautiful feet? Yes, I think that it can cause some self esteem issues when you are judged for your physical attributes at such a young age.
Whether you want to take that as me calling you a bad parent is up to you and your own parenting insecurities. I am merely answering a debate topic.

What I'm calling you out on is the fact that you claim I'm taking my parenting insecurities out on you and that's a bunch of BS. There are several other people in this thread that aren't against pageants but you haven't addressed any of them personally with quotes so I'm not really sure why I'm supposed to think you're not making this personal toward me. Was that jab at parenting insecurities aimed at someone else?

Like it or not, my kids are judged on their physical attributes in every single activity they are in. Soccer, how fast can you run and how accurate can you kick? Softball, can you hit the ball and can you make it to base? Tumbling, are you flexible enough, can you safely do all your moves? Same goes with baseball and football.

Just because (general) you don't find something to be enriching doesn't mean it isn't. People like parents who put their kids in sports, dance and music because it builds character and is wholesome or something. My kids are not going to grow up to be professional athletes or ballerinas, but it is still worth my while to allow them to participate in group activities that they enjoy.
I can't help it that there are some parents out there who take things to the extreme but it happens in all activities. I've seen parents push kids through sports and music just as mercilessly as those crazy moms on Toddlers And Tiaras. It happens in any activity where parents could get over zealous for the child to win, my own parents did that to me in swimming. You blame the parents for that, not the activity.

In moderation, pageants are fun for some families.
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