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  #21  
August 15th, 2011, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Tithen~ View Post
Home ec is mandatory where I grew up, but in 7th grade, not high school.

to be honest, you can teach them to cook, doesn't mean they CAN cook. Both my brothers took home ec in high school for 2 years. One can cook meat and potatoes, the other can bake. But they cannot do the other despite the course. In fact, they're likely to burn the house down if they try.

So I do not think it should be mandatory to learn to cook, and clean and sew. It should be optional. call it sexist if you will, my DF doesn't need to know how to sew, because I do. and even if he did know (I've seen his attempts) I'd still do it because I am good at it, and enjoy it. He doesn't need to know how to cook either, the kitchen is my domain and I like being there. Cleaning, is a necessity. I sit down to pee, I refuse to clean pee off the floor around the toilet, that's his job. In the house I grew up in, Dad did the sewing because mom was awful at it, dad was also the better cook, but did it less because he wasn't home as much.

We also had a mandatory course where we learned the basics like nutrition, budget, how to balance a check book, sex ed, and phys ed in high school, it was called PAL/CALM Physically Active Lifestyles and Career and Life Management. You took one half of the year of each in 10th grade.
Wow with my school you could only take home ec if you were in level 3 or lower classes. I wish I could have taken it. The classes looked fun but I wasn't allowed in <.< I couldn't take the baby course either.
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  #22  
August 15th, 2011, 08:51 AM
BittyBugsMama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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I only remember ever hearing of one vocational school and it was a school in Detroit. We didn't have any options outside of traditional education and I hated it. There was an option to take college classes but you had to test into them and I suck at taking tests.

I would love it if my kids could take classes K - 5 in a "traditional" sense and then start their hands on education where they learn real world skills. Wouldn't it be better if our kids knew how to leave high school and preform a job rather than start out at the generic restaurant or fast food job while they spend 4 or 5 years in college, relearning a lot of the stuff they already know?

I just wonder how much more productive we would be as a society if we focused on real life applications rather than test scores.
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  #23  
August 15th, 2011, 01:28 PM
New Mama's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Tithen~ View Post
Home ec is mandatory where I grew up, but in 7th grade, not high school.

to be honest, you can teach them to cook, doesn't mean they CAN cook. Both my brothers took home ec in high school for 2 years. One can cook meat and potatoes, the other can bake. But they cannot do the other despite the course. In fact, they're likely to burn the house down if they try.

So I do not think it should be mandatory to learn to cook, and clean and sew. It should be optional. call it sexist if you will, my DF doesn't need to know how to sew, because I do. and even if he did know (I've seen his attempts) I'd still do it because I am good at it, and enjoy it. He doesn't need to know how to cook either, the kitchen is my domain and I like being there. Cleaning, is a necessity. I sit down to pee, I refuse to clean pee off the floor around the toilet, that's his job. In the house I grew up in, Dad did the sewing because mom was awful at it, dad was also the better cook, but did it less because he wasn't home as much.
I'm sorry if I'm reading this the wrong way, but I don't agree with not teaching something to both sexes because one day we may potentially find/live with/marry someone who can do it for us.

Cooking is one of the best things my husband has ever learned how to do.

By your logic, that's also like saying that as a woman I shouldn't learn how to mow the lawn or use a hammer (or other tools) because my husband can do those things for me.

I think it's important for men and women to know how to do things independently from one another and if once you're (general) in a relationship with someone and choose not to use those skills, that's entirely different.

I could just be reading that wrong, but the logic seems silly to me.
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  #24  
August 15th, 2011, 02:26 PM
BittyBugsMama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Oh yeah, my husband is the domestic one in this relationship. He does almost all the cooking, he sews very well, he gardens, he is very crafty (he made the centerpieces for our wedding). I can work on cars and do other "manly" tasks. A large part of our relationship goes outside the societal norms for gender and I think its great
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  #25  
August 15th, 2011, 03:33 PM
plan4fate's Avatar I may bend, but not break
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Mama View Post
I'm sorry if I'm reading this the wrong way, but I don't agree with not teaching something to both sexes because one day we may potentially find/live with/marry someone who can do it for us.

Cooking is one of the best things my husband has ever learned how to do.

By your logic, that's also like saying that as a woman I shouldn't learn how to mow the lawn or use a hammer (or other tools) because my husband can do those things for me.

I think it's important for men and women to know how to do things independently from one another and if once you're (general) in a relationship with someone and choose not to use those skills, that's entirely different.

I could just be reading that wrong, but the logic seems silly to me.
No, what I said is it should not be mandatory. For anyone. Period. I think the old term is "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." You can take anyone to the kitchen, or the garage, but that doesn't mean they a-want to be there or b- will be any good at it. It's a choice.

I cook, clean, sew and I can change the oil in my car if I'm desperate. I can put up drywall. Why? because I wanted to learn it. I have 1 semester of home ec and one semester of wood shop... I built a napkin holder.

My brother, can bake like a champ, clean like a pro... but can't cook a steak with out eating blackened leather, and can't cut a piece of wood. Why? because he is no good at it. 2 courses for him

My cousin took home ec 3 times, and she still can't cook. Her DF does it, and he's never taken a class in it (except the mandatory course in 7th grade, where you learn to make an apple pie and garlic crisps.)

By your logic then Wood shop, Auto mechanics and A Personal finance course should also be mandatory. I only needed 19 credits to graduate high school (7 classes, over 3 years, 2 classes could be skipped as free periods used for studying.. which I absolutely needed in 12th grade for extra math help), I think 10-13 of them were mandatory courses, add in 4 more and that leaves me with 4-1 courses to prepare me for University. Which unfortunately, would not have been enough. I'd have needed a full extra year of school.
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  #26  
August 15th, 2011, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Tithen~ View Post
No, what I said is it should not be mandatory. For anyone. Period. I think the old term is "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." You can take anyone to the kitchen, or the garage, but that doesn't mean they a-want to be there or b- will be any good at it. It's a choice.
Same thing with math, english, science, ect. Should those subjects only be optional in high school? Does someone that plans to be a writer or a history major really need to know algerbra or geometry?
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  #27  
August 15th, 2011, 04:53 PM
plan4fate's Avatar I may bend, but not break
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nope, they should not. I think by 10th grade all mandatory courses should be said and done. One would assume 10 years (from 1st grade to 10th) they should be able to teach the child the fundamentals in all the basic studies that they should be able to move forward for classes specifically aimed at what they desire to do in the future.

Schools could offer course options based on the end goal, and students can choose their elective courses from the same basic list as everyone else. I do think this would require schools to expand their course offerings however, and that could increase education costs and those costs (material costs for example) would need to be covered somewhere.

Personally, if my child could get half a tech diploma and decrease the amount of time he was going to be in college, I'd certainly pay a tuition for him to take what he wanted. Would cost less than a Votech school all around I'd figure.
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  #28  
August 15th, 2011, 05:32 PM
mayandsofiasmommy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Tithen~ View Post
nope, they should not. I think by 10th grade all mandatory courses should be said and done. One would assume 10 years (from 1st grade to 10th) they should be able to teach the child the fundamentals in all the basic studies that they should be able to move forward for classes specifically aimed at what they desire to do in the future.

Schools could offer course options based on the end goal, and students can choose their elective courses from the same basic list as everyone else. I do think this would require schools to expand their course offerings however, and that could increase education costs and those costs (material costs for example) would need to be covered somewhere.

Personally, if my child could get half a tech diploma and decrease the amount of time he was going to be in college, I'd certainly pay a tuition for him to take what he wanted. Would cost less than a Votech school all around I'd figure.

Interesting. At first I thought, no, people still need to take math and everything all 4 years of high school, but then your last paragraph brings up an interesting point. I wonder if there was MORE choice in high school, maybe that would be better? Like, you could choose the "college" path, because some classes are definitely required if you want to get into college (like 3 years math, 2 yrs foreign lang., etc) but there could be other options as well. The only thing I'm hesitant about is when this was done in schools before, certain groups of people were pushed in specific directions. That should not happen. I'm just afraid it would happen.
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  #29  
August 15th, 2011, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Tithen~ View Post
No, what I said is it should not be mandatory. For anyone. Period. I think the old term is "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." You can take anyone to the kitchen, or the garage, but that doesn't mean they a-want to be there or b- will be any good at it. It's a choice.

I cook, clean, sew and I can change the oil in my car if I'm desperate. I can put up drywall. Why? because I wanted to learn it. I have 1 semester of home ec and one semester of wood shop... I built a napkin holder.

My brother, can bake like a champ, clean like a pro... but can't cook a steak with out eating blackened leather, and can't cut a piece of wood. Why? because he is no good at it. 2 courses for him

My cousin took home ec 3 times, and she still can't cook. Her DF does it, and he's never taken a class in it (except the mandatory course in 7th grade, where you learn to make an apple pie and garlic crisps.)

By your logic then Wood shop, Auto mechanics and A Personal finance course should also be mandatory. I only needed 19 credits to graduate high school (7 classes, over 3 years, 2 classes could be skipped as free periods used for studying.. which I absolutely needed in 12th grade for extra math help), I think 10-13 of them were mandatory courses, add in 4 more and that leaves me with 4-1 courses to prepare me for University. Which unfortunately, would not have been enough. I'd have needed a full extra year of school.
Actually, I don't think those courses should be mandatory and I don't think home ec. should be mandatory either so we agree. I just read your "reasoning" as it shouldn't be mandatory because someone else will/can do it for me and I didn't agree with that.

You would probably be interested in some of the European school systems. I don't know about all of them, but I do know that in countries like France, students do choose a career pathway once they reach high school. They also have to take a huge ***** test at the end of each year and an even bigger one at the end to "pass" high school. Then they follow that career pathway into college.

I think there are a lot of advantages to the system. IMO, the biggest disadvantage would be that students have to focus on a career pathway pretty early in life. Sure after 10 years of school you may think you know what you want to do with your life, but look how many people don't even know or change their mind after their freshman or sophmore year in college. I think deciding what one wants to become at the age of 15-16 might be a little young (for some).
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  #32  
September 4th, 2011, 04:23 PM
Mom 2 Alayna N Hayden's Avatar Texan In Seattle
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I went to a school in TX where there were quite a few hands-on classes, including a cosmetology class, mechanics, and more. I think it's amazing. It gives so many students a leg up in the job search after school.
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  #33  
September 4th, 2011, 05:06 PM
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I think that including more hands on learning would be beneficial to some children. Every child is different and I think the public school system should focus more on individual learning plans rather than expecting every single child to conform to a textbook.

Thankfully, I was able to learn from textbooks and learned best after writing terms, public studies and research over and over throughout school and university. I learned best through theory during university. Some people learn more from a practical a.k.a hands on approach. In some subjects such as photography, I have learned best from hands on experience rather than studying theory.

I find it would be also inclusive if public schools included a hands on approach to learn as more and more children are increasingly diagnosed with developmental disabilities that have been proven to benefit from hands on learning. I know my son (diagnosed with ASD) learns much better through hands on rather than being read something a million times. Hands on sticks.
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  #34  
September 6th, 2011, 11:44 AM
Nekinna2402's Avatar Anniken <3 Tanja
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There is a couple very hands on schools here and most schools do include some more "useful" life learning rather than just books.
Math contains a lot of budgeting and other money / life related learning.
Community - everything from history to laws and politics, etc.
Still to this day, we have cooking basics and nutritious (I'm in VG2)

Says a little more about our system here
Education in Norway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

VG - upper secondary school
you choose what career path you want : health and social (what I take), arts and crafts, media, mechanic and tons more.
Those are the first year, next year you search farther into what career you want and since I know more about health and social then I'll use that example : kids and teens, health worker, ambulance driver, skin care, dental care.. etc
You get to spend time in practice/learning (first year 2x2 weeks, next year 2x4 weeks) and how long the schooling is depends on line you choose. Health worker is VG1 + VG2 then practice place for 2 years then you are done.
So a lot of hands on and practical working.

We have about handicaps - blindness, deafness and physically disabled
you read, write, watch documments and you have to physically set yourself in their position to be hands on for better understanding, we choose physically disabled and got a wheel chair and was told to take a trip downtown and see how that went and how it felt.
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