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  #21  
September 8th, 2011, 07:47 AM
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I watched a documentary on Michigan and how BAD it is. A lot of people are busing four hours just to go to work somewhere because of how bad unemployment is, and these people were on welfare. Welfare doesn't mean you aren't working. A lot of people on it ARE working they just don't make enough. I think it's cruel to punish everyone because SOME people abuse the system.
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  #22  
September 8th, 2011, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melkissa2004 View Post
I think as long as someone is meeting specific requirements like proving they are actively searching for a job or going to school or something to improve their situation, then they should not be cut off.

My hubby owns his own business. I can't tell you how many past co-workers that are on unemployment now that have listed his company as one that they have "interviewed" with. Of course, we don't go with that and when called by unemployment we will deny that "interview" but how many workers at unemployment actually check every job "interview" or how many people lie for them. I even had a distant cousin contact us from Michigan asking if he could say he was coming down here to interview. It's crazy!
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  #23  
September 8th, 2011, 08:21 AM
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I really think Welfare should be a person by person basis. A lot of times there'll be a state wide guidline. Like the whole go on 1-2 job interviews a week, etc. That's really not fair to be honest. A person living in a city has a lot more opportunities than a person living in a rural area. I know this is going to be a shocker, but not every place has a Walmart or fast food store near them. So the whole line of "go flip burgers or work at Walmart" doesn't work for everyone. We don't have any of that for close to an hour away here, and not everyone can afford $4 gas. In some places there really are NO jobs at all available.
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  #24  
September 8th, 2011, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MommaBee View Post
I really think Welfare should be a person by person basis. A lot of times there'll be a state wide guidline. Like the whole go on 1-2 job interviews a week, etc. That's really not fair to be honest. A person living in a city has a lot more opportunities than a person living in a rural area. I know this is going to be a shocker, but not every place has a Walmart or fast food store near them. So the whole line of "go flip burgers or work at Walmart" doesn't work for everyone. We don't have any of that for close to an hour away here, and not everyone can afford $4 gas. In some places there really are NO jobs at all available.
Growing up there was no Walmart for over 60 miles for us so hearing people say "go work at walmart bugs me". One grocery store, 1 gas station, one pharmacy, a few small restuarants, a department store (that would not hire anyone under 30 no exceptions), and a drug store. Most of the places were closed from Oct 1st to May 1st. So 3000 people had to find work in about 250 job openings. If you didn't get hired in town, you had to drive the 20 minutes to one of the neighboring towns. Only one McDonalds, and it's also 20 minutes away.

Even now, the town I grew up in doesn't have a Walmart, you have to drive 20 minutes to the next town over.
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  #25  
September 8th, 2011, 06:04 PM
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Eh, it's only one year earlier. However, I think they should have not made it retroactive. There should be some warning.

I would think within four years, you could complete some type of degree program, get a job, or move. Yes, it costs money to move, but poor people do it all the time. My BIL's family lived in cars when he was growing up at times, and they still moved between states at least once a year. In fact, some members of his family still do that.
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  #26  
September 8th, 2011, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Star Light View Post
Eh, it's only one year earlier. However, I think they should have not made it retroactive. There should be some warning.

I would think within four years, you could complete some type of degree program, get a job, or move. Yes, it costs money to move, but poor people do it all the time. My BIL's family lived in cars when he was growing up at times, and they still moved between states at least once a year. In fact, some members of his family still do that.
Because living in cars and having no stable place to live for more than one year is great, especially when children are involved.
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  #27  
September 8th, 2011, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BittyBugsMama View Post
They should get jobs. Its easier to sell drugs and get cash assistance / food stamps / welfare / whatever on top of it then to have to work 36 hours a week at RiteAid, McDonalds, Target, etc... Its tough to find a good job in MI but its not hard to find a job that pays $8 or $9 an hour. If I hadn't seen it first hand for 4 or 5 years, I would feel differently about it but 4 years of cash assistance is enough. I'm not sure I agree with it being lifetime but more like you can not collect cash assistance again until after 5 years since your last check or something.

I love how you tossed the "it's easier to sell drugs" line in there....cause all people on assistance are selling drugs.
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  #28  
September 8th, 2011, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ~Tithen~ View Post
Growing up there was no Walmart for over 60 miles for us so hearing people say "go work at walmart bugs me". One grocery store, 1 gas station, one pharmacy, a few small restuarants, a department store (that would not hire anyone under 30 no exceptions), and a drug store. Most of the places were closed from Oct 1st to May 1st. So 3000 people had to find work in about 250 job openings. If you didn't get hired in town, you had to drive the 20 minutes to one of the neighboring towns. Only one McDonalds, and it's also 20 minutes away.

Even now, the town I grew up in doesn't have a Walmart, you have to drive 20 minutes to the next town over.
Lucky, we don't have a pharmacy here, and only one restaurant which charges $20 for two egg english muffin sandwiches (only at there once, and that is why, real eggs though). We do have a 24 hour gas station though, but the same people have been working there for ever, so they are unlikely to ever hire anyone new. The whole fast food or walmart comments bugs me as well, and this is the reason. There aren't any here, not everyone has the "luxury" of those types of fall back work places.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hey... Where's Perry? View Post
Because living in cars and having no stable place to live for more than one year is great, especially when children are involved.
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emm17 View Post
I love how you tossed the "it's easier to sell drugs" line in there....cause all people on assistance are selling drugs.
Didn't you know that? Geez get with the times. People on assistance aren't every day people who got the short end of the stick, they are drug addicts. They aren't regular families, just abusers. Sheesh. (end sarcasm)

I do want to squish your baby's cheecks though.
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  #29  
September 8th, 2011, 08:54 PM
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Eh I think 4 years is ample time to either train for new employment, elect officials who will help bring industry into your area or move to an area with better job prospects.

It's not logical to finance people indefinitely so they can live in an area that is unable to sustain them. If there is not enough jobs to support the population in a given area then some of that population needs to move. I would be ok with tax credits or a similar type thing for those who need to move due to lack of available jobs in a given area.
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  #30  
September 8th, 2011, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Emm17 View Post
I love how you tossed the "it's easier to sell drugs" line in there....cause all people on assistance are selling drugs.
I'm going off of my personal experience, I didn't say everybody did it. I have no problem with welfare, cash assistance, housing assistance, daycare assistance, whatever but if someone knows they are going to get it infinitely, what motivation do they have to go out and get a real job? They don't. I'm glad there is a cap on cash assistance. If that makes me a bad person, oh well.
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  #31  
September 9th, 2011, 05:43 AM
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I was at Costco last night and a woman whipped out an executive membership which I have also. Those cost $100 a year. She then went on to buy a case of oreos, cheese crackers, trisquits, and some other type of specialty cracker. Didn't really notice anything until the cashier told her she couldn't use her EBT card because the name didn't match her membership. She threw all kinds of a fit saying it was her husbands Costco account and she is on the account. They finally gave in because of how loud she was yelling. But I had to think....you can afford an executive membership for $100 and you use your gov't assistance for crap? Kinda made me mad and judgey.

eta: she did also buy a case of Heinekin beer but she paid cash for that
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  #32  
September 9th, 2011, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BittyBugsMama View Post
I'm going off of my personal experience, I didn't say everybody did it. I have no problem with welfare, cash assistance, housing assistance, daycare assistance, whatever but if someone knows they are going to get it infinitely, what motivation do they have to go out and get a real job? They don't. I'm glad there is a cap on cash assistance. If that makes me a bad person, oh well.
Because government assistance sucks. They don't pay you enough to totally live off of it (in terms of not going to be able to have any extras, or a normal life really). Because it's embarrassing for many people to have to pay with a EBT card (looks like a credit card yes, but in many places you have to say it's EBT so the cashier presses the right button, other wise it declines you if they think it's a credit card). Because it's a hassle to keep assistance. Always having meetings, paperwork, having to get random crap to prove stuff.

Where I live cash assistance isn't really cash. They don't just hand you cash and let you go shopping. They pay for your bills that you need; rent/mortgage, utlities, energy, etc. They do not pay for cell phone, internet, vehicle or TV. So you can't use that money to buy new clothes, extras/luxuries, or anything else. In fact, you don't even get the cash. You give them the bills and they pay for them. You also have to do a work study if you are recieving any cash support. You have to put in 30 hours a week of looking for jobs and it has to be documented and turned in. You also have to attend daily (mon-fri) meetings to help you find a job, how to get a job, how to keep a job, things like that. BOTH parents (if there are 2 parents, or 2 people in the home) have to do it. So if you're a SAHM you can say goodbye to that. If you're a college student you have to quit so that you can be available for any job opening.

Food Support is just a card and only certain items work. Cookies for example will not go through on EBT and you'll have to pay for that out of pocket. Household items like dish soap, cleaners, etc are also out of pocket.

With daycare assistance only some daycares will work, others won't. Usually it'll be a center or at a community building and not an in home daycare. They pay the daycare directly, or they may give a check with the daycare's name for you to pay them.

Housing assistance is also a hassle to get. You can get into a HUD home, but you have to actually help build, and they only do it certain months of the year. It will be yours once its built though and then you can sell it if you need a different home. Getting housing paid for is a lot of paperwork and its contiual paper work. It's not like you do one thing and then you get it for years.

This is where I live. It's not that easy, it's a lot of work, and it's annoying. I don't know anyone where I live who LIKES being on government assistance. Most people are trying all they can to get off of it and start living a better life. I know people who are on all assistance that they can have and they are still struggling, and many are actually working what part time job is available (not many full time jobs are available here, if any). I volunteer for WIC (I do free breastfeeding education in my home for WIC moms) so I hear a lot of these stories about how it sucks and how they wish things would get better here so they could give their families a quality of life.
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  #33  
September 9th, 2011, 08:48 AM
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Well that is just terrible... Requiring people who are getting free money to be accountable for what they are doing and go to meetings? Awful... just awful. Its cash assistance not "here, lets give us all the money you need a month to live on" so they shouldn't be able to live off of government funds but there are ways to do it and people do. Assistance isn't meant to help people live a middle class life, thats what all the free education programs out there are for. If you, as a single person, can't get on your feet after 4 years - I don't think you are trying hard enough.
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  #34  
September 9th, 2011, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by BittyBugsMama View Post
Well that is just terrible... Requiring people who are getting free money to be accountable for what they are doing and go to meetings? Awful... just awful. Its cash assistance not "here, lets give us all the money you need a month to live on" so they shouldn't be able to live off of government funds but there are ways to do it and people do. Assistance isn't meant to help people live a middle class life, thats what all the free education programs out there are for. If you, as a single person, can't get on your feet after 4 years - I don't think you are trying hard enough.
Did I say you should just get free money and do nothing? No, I stated why people wouldn't want to have it for long term, like you were wondering. You wanted to know why people wouldn't want to live long term on it if they changed the amount of time you could have it. I explained why they don't want to, because it's a lot of hassle and running around. So they would prefer not to be on it or only short time.
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  #35  
September 9th, 2011, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by MommaBee View Post
You wanted to know why people wouldn't want to live long term on it if they changed the amount of time you could have it. I explained why they don't want to, because it's a lot of hassle and running around. So they would prefer not to be on it or only short time.
It's probably alot easier than holding a job for some?
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  #36  
September 9th, 2011, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by BittyBugsMama View Post
People are leaving MI in droves to find better jobs which opens up new jobs for those of us who are still here. Its not hard to find certain types of jobs. In certain parts of the state the cost of living is very low. There are also housing programs, daycare programs, medical programs, education programs, etc. This is the cash assistance program only.

In some situations you gotta call a spade a spade. People would be a lot more motivated to find work if they knew the free money was going to stop. Yeah, some people do need help for more than 4 years but there are clauses in there for those special circumstances.
I 100000% agree. I think that if we help each other by giving a HAND UP instead of a HAND OUT, we can stop enabling the dependent behavior.

Child Care assistance, BTW is pretty easy to qualify for if you're a single parent, you just have to go thru the paperwork headaches. But if you really need it, then I'd assume you'd be willing to do it.

The TRULY needy will do whatever it takes to survive even if that means moving, working a crap job, making sacrifices, etc... Everyone else will make excuses as to why things "won't work".

ETA: I think people will be LESS likely to use welfare if they know there's a lifetime maximum. I know I would. What if I use it all up now, then REALLY need it one day. Then it won't be there...Kind of like sick time. You use it up, when you really are sick, not there. You don't get to complain when that inevitably happens...
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  #37  
September 9th, 2011, 03:57 PM
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It's probably alot easier than holding a job for some?
Maybe for a small number, but for the majority of average people, it's probably worse.
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  #38  
September 9th, 2011, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by BittyBugsMama View Post
I'm going off of my personal experience, I didn't say everybody did it. I have no problem with welfare, cash assistance, housing assistance, daycare assistance, whatever but if someone knows they are going to get it infinitely, what motivation do they have to go out and get a real job? They don't. I'm glad there is a cap on cash assistance. If that makes me a bad person, oh well.
You personally know multiple drug dealers that are also assistance recipients?? You didnt specifically say " all people on assistance are drug dealers" but you clearly threw them all in one category. How discriminating of you. Im sure people are so thrilled to live off of there $850/ month, that they want to do it forever. Yes, there are people who do it, and there are also people who are rich who abuse the governments help.
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  #39  
September 9th, 2011, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Emm17 View Post
You personally know multiple drug dealers that are also assistance recipients?? You didnt specifically say " all people on assistance are drug dealers" but you clearly threw them all in one category. How discriminating of you. Im sure people are so thrilled to live off of there $850/ month, that they want to do it forever. Yes, there are people who do it, and there are also people who are rich who abuse the governments help.
Yes, I did in my past. Go ahead and assume whatever you want, your pretend outrage won't get far with me. I have my opinions for a reason, don't like em? Don't share my opinion then. Easy enough.
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  #40  
September 10th, 2011, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Emm17 View Post
You personally know multiple drug dealers that are also assistance recipients?? You didnt specifically say " all people on assistance are drug dealers" but you clearly threw them all in one category. How discriminating of you. Im sure people are so thrilled to live off of there $850/ month, that they want to do it forever. Yes, there are people who do it, and there are also people who are rich who abuse the governments help.
I know a woman that has 2 kids. She has no official job so she is on welfare and food stamps. She works for cash for her dad's company while getting assistance. Yes, she does drugs and I have seen her give drugs for money to someone.

It seems that it is easier said than done. And you can't expect a human being to not be tainted by seeing the crap firsthand so get off your high horse.
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