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  #41  
September 10th, 2011, 04:04 AM
Hey... Where's Perry?'s Avatar Darnit face
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Everyone always knows someone.
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  #42  
September 10th, 2011, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hey... Where's Perry? View Post
Because living in cars and having no stable place to live for more than one year is great, especially when children are involved.
Oh relax. The point was that moving doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg. And you don't know these people--I do. They are LAZY. They do not want to work, and don't. Every last one of them is "disabled" and collects a check. Their children's goals? To collect a check. This is what lawmakers are trying to end, but it's not the cash welfare assistance that's necessarily the problem. These types of people (and no, I'm not referring to everyone on assistance) will find some way to exploit the system.
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  #43  
September 10th, 2011, 06:05 AM
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No system is perfect. Someone will always find a way to take advantage, no matter how many restrictions you put in place. (and someone here ALWAYS knows that person ) All this does is prevent other people who truly need help from getting it. This is one of those situations we have to take the small amount of bad with the good if we want to help the majority who ACTUALLY need it.
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  #44  
September 10th, 2011, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melkissa2004 View Post
No system is perfect. Someone will always find a way to take advantage, no matter how many restrictions you put in place. (and someone here ALWAYS knows that person ) All this does is prevent other people who truly need help from getting it. This is one of those situations we have to take the small amount of bad with the good if we want to help the majority who ACTUALLY need it.
That still doesn't mean people should be on welfare indefinitely.
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  #45  
September 10th, 2011, 06:24 AM
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Right, because everyone you know WANTS to be on it indefinitely. I can tell you right now out of the 2 people I personally know on assistance, they can't wait to get off. MOST people do not want to be on it forever.
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  #46  
September 10th, 2011, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by melkissa2004 View Post
Right, because everyone you know WANTS to be on it indefinitely. I can tell you right now out of the 2 people I personally know on assistance, they can't wait to get off. MOST people do not want to be on it forever.
Then there shouldn't be a problem with a limit.

Here's a little history for you. I was on assistance when I was in college. I was in a special program for welfare mothers. 90% had no desire to do well in their classes. The majority talked about smoking crack and goofed off. I also lived "in the projects" during that time. Guess what? Same thing. So in addition to my sister's inlaws, I think I've known quite a few more than you. Were all of them that way? Nope. But a lot of them are. That is the reality and that is why most people know someone who is a user and abuser. That is why people mention drug use.

Those who were the users and abusers were usually (not always, but usually) from generational poverty, like my sister's inlaws. Those who wanted to be off it as soon as possible just fell on hard times. Again, those are generalizations, but it holds true for a large portion of people.

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  #47  
September 10th, 2011, 07:50 AM
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You know here in FL, they started drug testing those who applied for cash assistance and do you know what the precentage was that tested positive?


WAIT FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!!!










2 percent.


The other 98% had to be reimbursed for the drug test. It is costing the state of FL an arm and a leg to pay back the drug tests that were negative and it was a **** site more in 1 month than they paid out to the 2% in one year.

I would like to see some real stats on all these druggies on welfare, not anecdotal evidence which some of you feel is appropiate in a DEBATE. You can't prove it, then it must not be true......

2% of Welfare Recipients Fail Drug Tests in Florida | Dispatches from the Culture Wars



Quote:
Cost of the tests averages about $30. Assuming that 1,000 to 1,500 applicants take the test every month, the state will owe about $28,800-$43,200 monthly in reimbursements to those who test drug-free.

That compares with roughly $32,200-$48,200 the state may save on one month’s worth of rejected applicants.

The savings assume that 20 to 30 people — 2 percent of 1,000 to 1,500 tested — fail the drug test every month. On average, a welfare recipient costs the state $134 in monthly benefits, which the rejected applicants won’t get, saving the state $2,680-$3,350 per month.

But since one failed test disqualifies an applicant for a full year’s worth of benefits, the state could save $32,200-$48,200 annually on the applicants rejected in a single month.

Net savings to the state — $3,400 to $8,200 annually on one month’s worth of rejected applicants. Over 12 months, the money saved on all rejected applicants would add up to $40,800-$98,400 for the cash assistance program that state analysts have predicted will cost $178 million this fiscal year.


ANYBODY WITH ANY REAL STATS????


gah. Opinions are like a ssholes. Everybody has one.....
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Last edited by Fluffy Baby; September 10th, 2011 at 07:53 AM.
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  #48  
September 10th, 2011, 07:55 AM
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Those statistics are crap. We will never know the true stats. Drug addicts have others piss for them. Known fact. I've known quite a few drug addicts--have you? The tricks they have up their sleeves is amazing.
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  #49  
September 10th, 2011, 07:58 AM
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Well, here someone actually watches you pee and you have to have ID. I am not sure how you think someone gets around THAT. I have known many drug dealers and addicts. What you say is no valid arguement until you can prove it. Where are your stats on all these tricks?
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  #50  
September 10th, 2011, 08:08 AM
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Most drugs only stay in your system for a short period of time. Any stats that may be found are still inaccurate. You can believe whatever you want to believe. Like you said, opinions are like...

And where is "here"? For what reason? Drug court? Welfare? Job?

But back to the topic, people in generational poverty are going to typically stay on some type of assistance or "disability." That's why it is called "generational."
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  #51  
September 10th, 2011, 08:16 AM
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Any stats to prove your statement? Or we get to here your ancedotal evidence all day that we ALL have. My are not opinions. I have actual factual information. You will not be taken seriously until we see some evidence. You can cry about stats not being reliable, but until we see any proof otherwise........
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  #52  
September 10th, 2011, 08:18 AM
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???

You didn't answer MY questions.

Illicit drug use and dependence are more common among women receiving welfare than among women who do not. Illicit drug use remains associated with welfare receipt even after controlling for race, educational attainment, region, and other potential confounders. If all welfare recipients were to stop using illicit drugs, however, the size of the welfare population would show little decline.9


National Poverty Center | University of Michigan

There is also a neat little bar graph showing 21% of welfare recipients use drugs compared to 13% of those not on welfare.

But again, this particular arguement isn't about drug testing them. It is simply about limiting the time you are on welfare. I simply mentioned it because someone else commented on it.

Care to get back on topic?
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  #53  
September 10th, 2011, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Star Light View Post
???

You didn't answer MY questions.

YOU are making statements. YOU have the burden of proof.
Quote:
people in generational poverty are going to typically stay on some type of assistance or "disability." That's why it is called "generational."


Anytime I have ever been drug tested here in FL, I have been watched. Mine was for employment.

Any other drug testing is done at lab corps or the court and you are watched to make sure you cannot cheat. Let me see if I can find info on that for you.
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  #54  
September 10th, 2011, 08:25 AM
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Added some stats for you.
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  #55  
September 10th, 2011, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Star Light View Post
???

You didn't answer MY questions.

Illicit drug use and dependence are more common among women receiving welfare than among women who do not. Illicit drug use remains associated with welfare receipt even after controlling for race, educational attainment, region, and other potential confounders. If all welfare recipients were to stop using illicit drugs, however, the size of the welfare population would show little decline.9


National Poverty Center | University of Michigan

There is also a neat little bar graph showing 21% of welfare recipients use drugs compared to 13% of those not on welfare.

But again, this particular arguement isn't about drug testing them. It is simply about limiting the time you are on welfare. I simply mentioned it because someone else commented on it.

Care to get back on topic?
LOL You are making the arguement that there are drug dealers all over the system taking advantage. NO it is not about testing them. Once you actually do the testing, the stats are NOT what the university of Michigan has.

From your article:

Quote:
Because substance use is a covert behavior, its true prevalence among the general and welfare population is unknown. Most studies have relied upon self-reports. Deceptive or inaccurate responses are therefore important concerns. Studies also differ in the thresholds used to characterize substance use problems. Some focus on simple use; others use more stringent thresholds such as abuse or dependence. Due to differing definitions and data sources, published prevalence estimates of use vary widely, from 6.6 to 37 percent of those receiving public aid.6
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  #56  
September 10th, 2011, 08:36 AM
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21% is much higher than 2%, although it doesn't match what I've personally observed. I've already stated that you will not find any accurate stats. I would bet my (pay)check that it is still higher than 21%.

For the record, they have not tested everyone. Again, drugs are only in your system for a short period of time (days). I did a quick search to see if welfare recipients were watched during their drug test, and got no results. No one argued that welfare recepients were all addicts--just that drug use happens at a much higher rate than stated. It is easy to avoid drugs for a few days to pass a test IF someone watches you, which I doubt occurs regularly anyway for welfare recepients. If it did, I'm sure it would have been easily found on my quick google search. As of now, I still stand by my opinion that your stats (all stats on the subject really) are inaccurate and we will never get an accurate stat for it.

If you want to believe that all welfare recipients are good, honest, hard-working people who have fallen on hard times, go for it. It is no skin off my nose. I'm much more jaded than that. I've seen too many abusers milk the system. The people who aren't users and abusers are only on assistance for a few years. THEY stop the assistance; it doesn't run out.

But I'm also a big enough person to say that I will eat my words if you can prove me wrong.
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  #57  
September 10th, 2011, 09:35 AM
Hey... Where's Perry?'s Avatar Darnit face
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Star Light View Post
Oh relax. The point was that moving doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg. And you don't know these people--I do. They are LAZY. They do not want to work, and don't. Every last one of them is "disabled" and collects a check. Their children's goals? To collect a check. This is what lawmakers are trying to end, but it's not the cash welfare assistance that's necessarily the problem. These types of people (and no, I'm not referring to everyone on assistance) will find some way to exploit the system.
I am relaxed. You're right, I don't know them but if you are going to try to pull that one now, why did you even bring them up in the first place? I honestly don't care how lazy or productive the people you know are and I believe less than 10% of people on assistance actually abuse the system.

Star Light, did you just try to pull the whole "I've known more drug addicts than you!!!"? BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
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  #58  
September 10th, 2011, 09:47 AM
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The point was that it is very possible for poor people to move if there are no jobs in an area. Additionally, if people want to believe you can't cheat on a drug test, they are free to do so.

And again, to get back on topic, if welfare recepients are all good honest people, a limit shouldn't matter. As I said before, the ones who wanted off assistance did so before the time limit even kicked in. Those who wanted a free ride used up their five years, and suddenly, they are "disabled."

Last edited by Star Light; September 10th, 2011 at 09:51 AM.
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  #59  
September 10th, 2011, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hey... Where's Perry? View Post
Star Light, did you just try to pull the whole "I've known more drug addicts than you!!!"? BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Uhhh, that's not what I said. I said I knew more people on assistance. She only knew 2, and I've known lots more. I just happened to mention that many of them also spoke of smoking crack. When you are speaking of experience, 2 is an awfully small number.
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  #60  
September 10th, 2011, 10:21 AM
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This is humorous. The "I know more people than you so I'm right" is sort of ridiculous.
Just because you don't LIKE the stats doesn't mean they aren't true. Please don't pretend your anecdotal evidence trumps all because it doesn't.

I said 2 people I know RIGHT now. Not ever. My own family has been on assistance and my sister who is a single parent of 3 kids still is. My own brother died of a **** drug overdose so don't tell me you know EVERYTHING about drug addicts and welfare recipients. My mom has 4 incurable movement disorders and she's on disability. She fought like hell to get on it after being denied multiple times and she almost lost her house.
You don't know every little thing about everyone you encounter. You sound like one of those people who spouts off crap like "Oh, well this lady pulled up to WalMart in an Escalade with all her kids dressed in nothing but nice clothes. She was buying steaks and beer on her EBT with a Gucci bag hanging off her shoulder. Her hair and nails were done too. Must be nice..."
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