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  #81  
September 10th, 2011, 07:20 PM
*Leslie*'s Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Star Light View Post
It can be done. You report the symptoms and put on a little act. I can't believe I'm the only person who has ever encountered someone who is a conniving little liar. I am in no way saying that most people who collect disability are faking; just that those who do clog up the system, create mistrust, and make it that much harder for those who are actually disabled.

I don't see what is so unbelievable about this, really. It is not hard to fake pain or mental disability if you know the symptoms. You are only acting while in the dr's office. Lots of people who abuse pain pills do the same thing. They fake pain to get the drugs.

Will all dr's fall for it? I'm sure there are plenty who won't. But there are also plenty who will, too.
I work with some of the most lying, conniving people in the country. Any good professional will see right through it. I do extensive evaluations for people that meet the diagnostic criteria for SSDI processing. Sometimes my assessment makes them eligible, sometimes it doesn't. I believe it is a VERY small minority of people who get it that don't need it. I have worked with people who have SEVERE mental health issues who have fought for many years to get their disability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Star Light View Post
Ok. Malingering is just a figment of my imagination.

I'm truly baffled that people on this particular board have a hard time understanding that there are unscrupulous people who cheat the system.
It is really not that difficult to spot someone who is malingering. Most mental health professionals don't ride in on a load of turnips.
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  #82  
September 10th, 2011, 07:52 PM
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I think having a cap is necessary. I know how much it might suck for some, but I also know that not having one could prove to be problematic later on down the road. That said, from the very first moment I was ever on any sort of assistance(as an adult, with child dependent(s) that is) I knew there was a cap for this, that and the other. It's made very clear in the billions of papers they hand you here.
Cash assistance is very difficult to get here, and I do believe that that portion of welfare ought to be very difficult to get. I've never once qualified for it, not that I've tried to get it, they just automatically figure out what you do and do not qualify for here. The income level is so terrible that, to be honest, I'm really not sure how those at that income level make it, especially with children involved. I really don't. I feel bad for anyone in that sort of predicament. It's unfathomable why anyone would want to kick them when they are already down. In my personal opinion(see this is what you say when you have no actual proof to back up your statements..) the majority of those on welfare(of any sort) are not drug users, they're not abusing the system and they're just doing whatever they can to get by. Yes we all know the system has it's users, drug abusers and a myriad of other things people could be doing differently to better their situation, but they choose not to. We get it. Some people suck. But folks on welfare don't hold the gold medal in that event. Even people who've never spent a day in their life on assistance suck at managing their finances and keeping **** together for their families. It happens in all walks of life, period. Drug users, abusers and general misfits are lurking everywhere in this country. That was a stupid rant, I know, the whole "let's kick them all while they're down because of my own personal anecdotal evidence suggests they're all scum" crap kinda annoys me.

Back to the topic at hand. A cap, is necessary. In fact I honestly cannot remember a time-in my adult lifetime-when there wasn't some sort of cap in place for most of the areas of welfare. I do believe if they are going to change the cap, it shouldn't be retroactive, though. That's a very, very bad idea. Those people who are already on cash assistance, and have been, won't have ample warning, imo. You're knocking at least an entire year off the existing cap(I think in some places the cap for cash is actually 6 years, but again, I have no proof, not even sure where to look to be honest). If they've already been on it for 3+ years, they could find themselves up **** creek, hole in the canoe, with no paddle. That's not a good idea. It's going to throw some people into an even worse situation.

I do fully support caps, in general, on welfare assistance. Especially things like cash. That's likely because I know how hard it is to get cash and if you manage passing through all of those hoops, you have got to be in one **** low place.
Here, to get cash assistance, you have to either be already working(and making little to nothing), and attempting to get a new job-they will NOT accept you staying at the same place of employment and getting cash assistance, or go to their program m-f for 8 hours each day. They WILL help you find a job. If you can't find one on your own, they will assist you. So there aren't really any "lifers" when it comes to cash assistance here. Other assistance, perhaps, but even food stamps comes with a cap. You still have to jump through some pretty goofy hoops to get those too. Still have to be held accountable(as I believe one should, when they get assistance). Maybe it's just far more difficult here to get assistance than other places. But it's not an easy process. You can lose your benefits a hell of a lot easier than you can get them, too. We're always held accountable for our actions. You don't play by the rules, you don't get help. No ifs ands or buts about it.

The moving thing, annoys the hell out of me. "Even poor people can move", go stuff that statement where the sun doesn't shine. Have you ever tried to move as a "poor person" with a family in tow? I highly doubt you have. I live where I live now because I have to. Just picking up and going somewhere else is NOT a possibility at this time. I wish to all things holy I could just pick up and move(and yes I am working towards being able to, it's just not an instant process). You can pretend you "know" it is all you want. I say you're full of baloney if you honestly believe it's that easy to just pick up and go. Especially if you're already on assistance. Do you think if you do manage moving somewhere else that your assistance will just come with you? It doesn't, at least not everywhere, I promise you that. You start the process all over again when you move, at least in this state, it doesn't even transfer from county to county with you. I can only imagine how hard it is to go to an entirely different state. The whole point of someone picking up and moving is to better their life, right? Well if they're already on assistance, and now have all the expenses of moving(and everything else that comes with moving), how exactly are they supposed to stand on their own two feet without help? Be realistic here.
For folks who aren't on assistance moving isn't always all that easy either, though. Most people can't just wake up one day "you know what, this place blows, screw this, I'm going somewhere else" and just leave. You're making it sound like it's some easy process, lol. Maybe if you're single, with no kids, it's easier. But when you've a family to take care of, things aren't always that easy. In fact for many in this country, finding a job further away and just commuting a longer distance, is easier than moving. That's why so many people do it. Commuting takes it's toll on people too though, and comes with all sorts of expenses all by itself.

There aren't a whole hell of a lot of win-win situations when you're already down on your luck. To pretend there are just screams ignorance and makes people sound as if they've never once in their lives had to deal with not having enough to get by on. It's nice to judge from the outside of the box, I suppose. But toss some of those people inside the box and I bet ya their stance would change just a little bit. "Walk a mile..." and all that jazz.
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  #83  
September 10th, 2011, 08:15 PM
Emm17's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BittyBugsMama View Post
Yes, I did in my past. Go ahead and assume whatever you want, your pretend outrage won't get far with me. I have my opinions for a reason, don't like em? Don't share my opinion then. Easy enough.
I don't share your opinion. Hence the purpose of this debate board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GinaB View Post
I know a woman that has 2 kids. She has no official job so she is on welfare and food stamps. She works for cash for her dad's company while getting assistance. Yes, she does drugs and I have seen her give drugs for money to someone.

It seems that it is easier said than done. And you can't expect a human being to not be tainted by seeing the crap firsthand so get off your high horse.
Get off MY high horse?? "I know this women, SHE CHEATS THE SYSTEM. And does drugs!!That means THEY ALL DO!"

Really? Who has the high horse?

YES, some people are on assistance and do drug. And guess what, SOME DON'T!!

By the way, I didnt give my opinion on the original topic. Should there be a cap? In some circumstances, yes. I do believe so, that much we can agree on. It's this whole attitude of, heck yah there should be a cap, welfare users are abusers!! That I'm arguing. People are so ignorant.
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  #84  
September 11th, 2011, 03:22 AM
GinaB's Avatar Ex-Navy Lifetime NRA!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frgsonmysox View Post
How do you know a family member didn't pay for that costco card?
Yeh I forgot the "someone else could have bought it" reason or the " it could have been a gift" argument. My bad Lol
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  #85  
September 11th, 2011, 03:34 AM
GinaB's Avatar Ex-Navy Lifetime NRA!
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Anyway, it seems everyone agrees there should be a cap and that is what the debate was about right?
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  #86  
September 11th, 2011, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Star Light View Post
Ok. Malingering is just a figment of my imagination.

I'm truly baffled that people on this particular board have a hard time understanding that there are unscrupulous people who cheat the system.
We believe it- we just don't think it's the majority and certainly not worth punishing everyone else for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Star Light View Post
And that is why you don't like the association. There is a personal connection. There is always some type of connection, regardless of which side you are on. I have my experience, and you have yours. Ours just don't mesh. It is fine to disagree. I'm done discussing the drug aspect.

Why shouldn't there be a limit? That is what the debate is about, anyway.
I don't dislike the association- I dislike someone telling me that I don't know as much as they do about particular subjects when they really have no clue what experiences I have had. You don't know every single drug addict and person on welfare so don't pretend you do. Your stereotypes are so typical I could read them from the past 8 welfare debates we've had. IT'S NOTHING NEW. Pissing contests over anecdotal evidence are ridiculous.

I've already stated my opinion on why there shouldn't be a limit. It's okay for threads to derail, BTW. They usually do.
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  #87  
September 11th, 2011, 08:04 PM
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Leslie-I'd like to believe that the most professionals (those who are excellent judges of character like yourself) cannot be duped, but that's just not the case. I believe there is always someone one step ahead of even the smartest of people, and you just never know....

I know a girl (and some of you girls do too) who happens to dupe her Psychologist (VERY SMART ONE TOO) all the time...so she can get sympathy, welfare, and tons more...Never assume...You could be wrong.
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  #88  
September 12th, 2011, 06:49 AM
GinaB's Avatar Ex-Navy Lifetime NRA!
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Is a mental dr really going to say "I don't believe you" and not prescribe meds or proof of disability? seems that that would be the most stupid thing to say to a mental patient and could possibly push them further into themselves and not seek help. Do dr's really do that?
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  #89  
September 12th, 2011, 07:16 AM
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They won't prescribe pills that's for sure.
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  #90  
September 12th, 2011, 09:53 AM
birdblue's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frgsonmysox View Post
How do you know a family member didn't pay for that costco card?
Right, or that she didn't save the little income she does have to buy it in order to have more savings.
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  #91  
September 12th, 2011, 01:37 PM
*Leslie*'s Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GinaB View Post
Is a mental dr really going to say "I don't believe you" and not prescribe meds or proof of disability? seems that that would be the most stupid thing to say to a mental patient and could possibly push them further into themselves and not seek help. Do dr's really do that?
Absolutely they do/will. People malinger for numerous reasons. Many times it is specifically for meds and/or disability. In my workplace, it is mostly for the secondary gain of attention and special housing.
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  #92  
September 13th, 2011, 06:31 AM
GinaB's Avatar Ex-Navy Lifetime NRA!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birdblue View Post
Right, or that she didn't save the little income she does have to buy it in order to have more savings.
I don't just like you don't know they aren't scamming the system so I guess we are at a wash

Those trisquits and oreos keep ya well fed though.
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