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  #61  
September 14th, 2011, 04:01 AM
Tammyjh's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum_Leap View Post
(1) That's not going to happen.
(2) They never taught us any of that stuff in the Girl Scouts -- that was my main point.
(3) Why not a program like Outward Bound? It teaches all of the same skills, and then places the child in a situation where he/she is actually forced to use them before 'graduating' from the program. Plus, there are none of the same homophobia issues to contend with.
What homophobia issues does one have to deal with in GS?
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  #62  
September 14th, 2011, 05:38 AM
Tofu Bacon's Avatar Enigma... or oxymoron?
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I'm not crazy about dance because the costumes and make-up tend to be too sexy for a little girl, IMO.
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  #63  
September 14th, 2011, 06:07 AM
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I'm also not crazy about dance for a number of reasons, at least if they go into a serious competetive program.

1) body image issues
2) costumes & makeup, and even some of the moves (remember that video that went viral?)
3) lack of individuality. All the kids of coworkers who dance aren't allowed to have piercings, dye their hair, etc. Zero self expression, they're expected to be clones. It just rubs me the wrong way.
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  #64  
September 14th, 2011, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammyjh View Post
What homophobia issues does one have to deal with in GS?
None, but I dislike the Girl Scouts for the other reasons already mentioned (i.e. their gendered value system). Plus, it wouldn't make sense to let my girls participate in Girl Scouts but not my boys in Boy Scouts. That would just breed resentment. (Like I said, I wouldn't forbid any of them from participating in either, but I would be disappointed).
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  #65  
September 14th, 2011, 11:00 AM
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Well my life is completely ironic....

The femanist in me is anti-cheerleader (no offense to former cheerleaders but I'd rather have my dd participating than cheering on boys)... however, I fear I have given birth the a natural born cheerleader. She started her 1st poms class last week & is loving it So I'm stuck.

I don't like sports & am also afraid of injuries but but once again...... I manage with the help of my very geeky dh to give birth to a gifted jock. So while I can say now "no football" (he's 5), I can surely see that in his future as much as cheerleading in dds.

Ultimately as someone else said, it's their life not mine & I need to let them live it (within reason of course)

Pageants are a no for now - dd is 9. I don't like them & I don't have the kind of money that you have to spend on them. But if she wants to go out for the Miss (insert town name here) pageant when she's in high school, I will support her.

I wasn't aware of the stance of the Boy Scouts. That makes me ponder.... I will have to talk dh about it, he was an Eagle Scout & it was a given that ds would join. But one of dh's best friends is gay so I wonder if he even knows about the stance....
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  #66  
September 17th, 2011, 07:13 AM
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I used to be a justmommies addict, but occasionally graze the boards now. Unfortunately I had to create a new user name since the board had switched over a couple years ago.....anyways, I'm back to join some debates.

I despise gymnastics. My MIL is a national judge, and some of the things she has told me they judge on is ridiculous. My daughter is only 4 but will be removed before the competition stage begins. She also belongs to other activities.

I'd like to jump in on the scouts debate....here in Canada, I have never heard the anti-gay attitude. I can only assume that they are Christian based too, if the US organization is as well. DH and I were both in scouts.

I think scouts/girl guides is a great educational experience. I find that a lot of families don't even go camping, some of the survival measures they teach are valuable, and can definitely become a necessity in a life or death situation. Plus it allows them to discover more interests they may not have had the opportunity to in their home life (ie: horseback riding, wall climbing, camping etc). To the person who has said that a survival mode in Northern America could never happen....well I hope for your sack, it never does. (Just to remind you about Hurricane Katrina btw).

Accidents happen all the time, what if your child was on a snowboarding trip with his school- or a group of friends, and needed to use survival methods for some reason? A car accident and the road was wiped out? Oh right, that won't ever happen to you

There is more educational and social value in Scouts then in say, soccer. And I personally wouldn't be concerned about a six year old 'coming out of the closet'. And I'm SURE that the leaders don't announce "don't forget kids, if you discover you're gay- we're going to kick you out".

I would have figured that the Christian aspect would have been more of a reason then the fact that they prefer that homosexuals aren't openly apart of the organization. Just remember, your kids soccer coach, football coach or dance teacher- may be discriminatory about your child being gay as well. It happens everywhere. It's not just Scouts you may have to worry about....

Last edited by babytoes; September 17th, 2011 at 07:21 AM.
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  #67  
September 17th, 2011, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babytoes View Post
Accidents happen all the time, what if your child was on a snowboarding trip with his school- or a group of friends, and needed to use survival methods for some reason? A car accident and the road was wiped out? Oh right, that won't ever happen to you
I should rephrase. It's not that disaster situations are guaranteed never to happen. It's that the ratio of the likelihood of these sorts of survival skills coming in useful, compared to the effort required to acquire them, is so small as to be negligible. If there truly were a nuclear holocaust or something, it's not like my kids are going to say "it's okay, we can tie knots, we're going to be fine." That sounds very Dwight Schrute-ish to me. In a true disaster, we would be screwed no matter what, and all of the pocket knives in the world wouldn't be enough to save us. In a more minor disaster (like the situation you describe), the best thing to do would be to rely on the authorities/call 911/follow the lead of the teachers. NOT try to take matters into your own hands and whip out your Field Guide to Edible Berries or whatever.

Of course, the situation might be different if your family was the type to actually go and seek out situations where survival skills are likely to be necessary. If you regularly go solo backpacking, or rock climbing, or sled dog racing, or whatever, then sure, the types of skills that are taught in the Boy Scouts could possibly come in handy. But our family is much less ambitious. We mostly just sit around the house. Given that, I don't see when these survival skills would ever be needed at all, except in a situation that was so extreme that they would be insufficient to ensure our survival.
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  #68  
September 17th, 2011, 09:39 AM
BittyBugsMama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum_Leap View Post
I should rephrase. It's not that disaster situations are guaranteed never to happen. It's that the ratio of the likelihood of these sorts of survival skills coming in useful, compared to the effort required to acquire them, is so small as to be negligible. If there truly were a nuclear holocaust or something, it's not like my kids are going to say "it's okay, we can tie knots, we're going to be fine." That sounds very Dwight Schrute-ish to me. In a true disaster, we would be screwed no matter what, and all of the pocket knives in the world wouldn't be enough to save us. In a more minor disaster (like the situation you describe), the best thing to do would be to rely on the authorities/call 911/follow the lead of the teachers. NOT try to take matters into your own hands and whip out your Field Guide to Edible Berries or whatever.

Of course, the situation might be different if your family was the type to actually go and seek out situations where survival skills are likely to be necessary. If you regularly go solo backpacking, or rock climbing, or sled dog racing, or whatever, then sure, the types of skills that are taught in the Boy Scouts could possibly come in handy. But our family is much less ambitious. We mostly just sit around the house. Given that, I don't see when these survival skills would ever be needed at all, except in a situation that was so extreme that they would be insufficient to ensure our survival.
If you think the scouts only teach knot tying and give kids pocket knives, your knowledge of the scouts scouts is seriously lacking.
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  #69  
September 17th, 2011, 12:16 PM
Tammyjh's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum_Leap View Post
None, but I dislike the Girl Scouts for the other reasons already mentioned (i.e. their gendered value system). Plus, it wouldn't make sense to let my girls participate in Girl Scouts but not my boys in Boy Scouts. That would just breed resentment. (Like I said, I wouldn't forbid any of them from participating in either, but I would be disappointed).
Ok. Thanks for clarifying. I thought you were lumping the GS and BS into the same group.
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  #70  
September 17th, 2011, 03:49 PM
plan4fate's Avatar I may bend, but not break
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babytoes View Post
I used to be a justmommies addict, but occasionally graze the boards now. Unfortunately I had to create a new user name since the board had switched over a couple years ago.....anyways, I'm back to join some debates.

I despise gymnastics. My MIL is a national judge, and some of the things she has told me they judge on is ridiculous. My daughter is only 4 but will be removed before the competition stage begins. She also belongs to other activities.

I'd like to jump in on the scouts debate....here in Canada, I have never heard the anti-gay attitude. I can only assume that they are Christian based too, if the US organization is as well. DH and I were both in scouts.

I think scouts/girl guides is a great educational experience. I find that a lot of families don't even go camping, some of the survival measures they teach are valuable, and can definitely become a necessity in a life or death situation. Plus it allows them to discover more interests they may not have had the opportunity to in their home life (ie: horseback riding, wall climbing, camping etc). To the person who has said that a survival mode in Northern America could never happen....well I hope for your sack, it never does. (Just to remind you about Hurricane Katrina btw).

Accidents happen all the time, what if your child was on a snowboarding trip with his school- or a group of friends, and needed to use survival methods for some reason? A car accident and the road was wiped out? Oh right, that won't ever happen to you

There is more educational and social value in Scouts then in say, soccer. And I personally wouldn't be concerned about a six year old 'coming out of the closet'. And I'm SURE that the leaders don't announce "don't forget kids, if you discover you're gay- we're going to kick you out".

I would have figured that the Christian aspect would have been more of a reason then the fact that they prefer that homosexuals aren't openly apart of the organization. Just remember, your kids soccer coach, football coach or dance teacher- may be discriminatory about your child being gay as well. It happens everywhere. It's not just Scouts you may have to worry about....
Guides and Scouts request that you have Spirituality as it is a main focus of their core, BUT, it doesn't have to be the Christian God, can be any God, or Spirit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum_Leap View Post
I should rephrase. It's not that disaster situations are guaranteed never to happen. It's that the ratio of the likelihood of these sorts of survival skills coming in useful, compared to the effort required to acquire them, is so small as to be negligible. If there truly were a nuclear holocaust or something, it's not like my kids are going to say "it's okay, we can tie knots, we're going to be fine." That sounds very Dwight Schrute-ish to me. In a true disaster, we would be screwed no matter what, and all of the pocket knives in the world wouldn't be enough to save us. In a more minor disaster (like the situation you describe), the best thing to do would be to rely on the authorities/call 911/follow the lead of the teachers. NOT try to take matters into your own hands and whip out your Field Guide to Edible Berries or whatever.

Of course, the situation might be different if your family was the type to actually go and seek out situations where survival skills are likely to be necessary. If you regularly go solo backpacking, or rock climbing, or sled dog racing, or whatever, then sure, the types of skills that are taught in the Boy Scouts could possibly come in handy. But our family is much less ambitious. We mostly just sit around the house. Given that, I don't see when these survival skills would ever be needed at all, except in a situation that was so extreme that they would be insufficient to ensure our survival.
you might be screwed, but I can take pine boughs and make a water tight shelter for five people that will protect us from wind, snow and rain. I can collect water with a shopping bag, and if I have the iodine tablets I can make fresh water from water at a beach with two pots, a sock and a cookie sheet and can snare and skin a rabbit if I'm desperate. I can fish with a bobby pin sharpened on a rock tied a shoe lace, can whittle plates, bowls, cups and spoons with a kitchen knife (pocket knife preferred, but it can be done!). As long as I can make a fire (which can be done with just sticks if you have a clue and some patience) and I'm not naked in the north I'm pretty sure I'm not screwed, I'm just mighty out of my comfort zone.

I learned most of that in a single year of scouts. Our emergency preparedness kit will have dry clothes (sealed) in it, along with food (canned and dried), we could hold out a while if needed. And the more people around you that can do things the better off you are. but don't depend on someone else, you need to be able to take care of yourself first, help others second.
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  #71  
September 17th, 2011, 04:16 PM
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I never see people stranded with pots and cookie sheets. lol
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  #72  
September 17th, 2011, 04:23 PM
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If a disaster occurred I'm going to have them in my home though. And we camp with pots and a flat cookie sheet like griddle pan. A frying pan works good in a pinch, or even heavy plastic. It has to catch steam and allow it to condense and then run off to another pan... so it has to withhold heat.

There's a slow way that involves one big container one small one, plastic wrap and a rock..... takes longer, but works Alright in a pinch but it needs to be a large shallow container (like a 9x13 pan) to work best... but I learned that method in science class in grade school.
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  #73  
September 17th, 2011, 04:26 PM
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Gotcha. I was mostly kidding anyway.
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  #74  
September 17th, 2011, 06:36 PM
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lol I figured. I actually had an image of taking DSS hiking and camping and him having a big ol cookie sheet strapped to his back just in case.
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  #75  
September 19th, 2011, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ~Tithen~ View Post
you might be screwed, but I can take pine boughs and make a water tight shelter for five people that will protect us from wind, snow and rain. I can collect water with a shopping bag, and if I have the iodine tablets I can make fresh water from water at a beach with two pots, a sock and a cookie sheet and can snare and skin a rabbit if I'm desperate. I can fish with a bobby pin sharpened on a rock tied a shoe lace, can whittle plates, bowls, cups and spoons with a kitchen knife (pocket knife preferred, but it can be done!). As long as I can make a fire (which can be done with just sticks if you have a clue and some patience) and I'm not naked in the north I'm pretty sure I'm not screwed, I'm just mighty out of my comfort zone.

I learned most of that in a single year of scouts. Our emergency preparedness kit will have dry clothes (sealed) in it, along with food (canned and dried), we could hold out a while if needed. And the more people around you that can do things the better off you are. but don't depend on someone else, you need to be able to take care of yourself first, help others second.
I said, nuclear holocaust. As in, your skin is melting off of your face. No, I don't think snaring a rabbit would be of much use to you in that situation. In fact, I have a hard time seeing how snaring a rabbit would ever be of much use to me, since I live in a large Chinese city quite far from any wild rabbits. Same goes for catching a fish with a bobby pin. How would that help me when I (a) don't wear bobby pins, (b) don't live near any rivers or lakes, and (c) have never had any success catching a fish even with a regular hook?

Look, let's be realistic. Almost all of the skills that you described above have to do with making do with very few supplies. It seems like a much more straightforward solution would be to stock up on supplies. Rather than learning to catch rabbits or improvise distillation machines, why not just store a bunch of extra canned food and water in your garage? Rather than making a water-proof shelter out of pine boughs, why not just pack a tarp? Just because a skill is cool-sounding doesn't mean that it's likely to ever actually come in handy. (Like I said, the situation would be different if I were the kind of person who frequently went backpacking, or flew solo planes over remote Caribbean Islands or whatever. But I'm not. I don't. So how on earth would I ever find myself stranded up North with bobby pins and a cookie sheet?)

Disasters that could actually possibly realistically befall me (though still extremely unlikely): hurricane, earthquake, flood, fire. These are the kinds of things that actually might happen to city people such as myself. In all of them, I'm pretty sure that my most valuable assets would be a good store of emergency supplies and a willingness to wait on the instructions of the authorities. (And, in my case since I live abroad: American dollars, an American passport, and knowledge of the whereabouts of the U.S. embassy. Those are all essential).

Simplest approach to keeping your family safe if you're not interested in participating in the Boy Scouts: don't put yourself into the types of situations that might require using the skills that are taught in the Boy Scouts.
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  #76  
September 19th, 2011, 07:19 PM
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Depends on the age. I am not allowing swimming quite yet because of the skill it takes and I simply do not trust anyone else to be able to fully keep an eye on my kids. So until they get through their lessons, no swimming for them.

Other than that, they can choose what they wish to participate in. It their lives and sooner or later, you'll have to live with whatever choices they make, even if it's not YOUR choice. If you don't let them do the things they want, they may very well rebel and make choices you really don't like. We're not supposed to live through our kids or fear everything . You do that, your kids won't ever even have a life. What kind of life is that?
Totally agree with the bolded. Very good point Lynn.

My son is 12 and is playing his 2nd year of tackle football. He is the smallest one on the team weighing in at 74 pounds. He plays against boys who are up to 300 lbs. Am I afraid that he can get hurt? Sure I am, but what kind of parent would I be if I took away something that he is passionate about? He eats, sleeps, breathes and dreams football. I refuse to be the parent that is selfish and takes his love of something away from him because of my own fears.

My son is the kicker for his football team. He has very little contact with the other players. I have had several of the coaches in our organization tell me that by the time he hits high school, he should have no problem getting a scholarship to college. That being said, kickers are very valuable to a football team, and it would mean a full ride to college, and him getting to do what he loves to do.
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