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Jailing poor/unemployed parents for failure to pay child support


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  #21  
September 13th, 2011, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Fluffy Baby View Post
Yes, cause it is that easy to just go get a job where ever, when ever.

There are alot of ways to make money without having a real job. What about picking up cans on the side of the road for recycling? Scrap metal? Offering to cut people's yards/weed their gardens or Sell your belongings? There are ways to make money (not saying one could make the whole amount but some of it) and I would think a good dad would come up with whatever he could moneywise and give it to his child. If he showed the judge he was doing something, then I can see the judge not sending him to jail. But to come up with nothing in all that time?
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  #22  
September 13th, 2011, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by GinaB View Post
There are alot of ways to make money without having a real job. What about picking up cans on the side of the road for recycling? Scrap metal? Offering to cut people's yards/weed their gardens or Sell your belongings? There are ways to make money (not saying one could make the whole amount but some of it) and I would think a good dad would come up with whatever he could moneywise and give it to his child. If he showed the judge he was doing something, then I can see the judge not sending him to jail. But to come up with nothing in all that time?
I'm not sure where you live but there aren't pop cans just hanging out on the side of the road here. If they live in a poor area then it's likely that his neighbors wouldn't be able to afford someone to cut their grass, and even if they paid him $10 he'd have to buy the gas for the lawn mower. It really bothers me with the line of "Good dad". Good people get into bad situations of no fault of their own every day. This is a bad economy, we need to cut people some slack. Maybe that good dad only has enough money to support himself. We can't make him be homeless or go without food to pay for another person. Yes, it's his child, but his chid's mom is hopefully working as well, and single mothers have a better chance of getting assistance than the dads are. Maybe this good dad has other children who live with him. Sometimes nothing *is* all you can come up with. It's hard in a small town with nothing around and everyone else is in the same position as you are. This is not black and white and really should be case by case. Jailing someone because they *can't* work is ridiculous, that'll just put them further behind on not only their CS but their other living expenses for themselves. Dads who decide not to work or pay strictly on their choice because they don't want to, that's a different story. But don't sit there and say good dads can make it work, it doesn't happen like that. Good dads can't make money just appear just because they are good. A good mom would understand.

I'm not trying to make excuses for people to not pay their obligations, but people really need to wake up and see that our economy isn't like it use to be and for some people they aren't making it no matter what.
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  #23  
September 13th, 2011, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MommaBee View Post
I'm not sure where you live but there aren't pop cans just hanging out on the side of the road here. If they live in a poor area then it's likely that his neighbors wouldn't be able to afford someone to cut their grass, and even if they paid him $10 he'd have to buy the gas for the lawn mower. It really bothers me with the line of "Good dad". Good people get into bad situations of no fault of their own every day. This is a bad economy, we need to cut people some slack. Maybe that good dad only has enough money to support himself. We can't make him be homeless or go without food to pay for another person. Yes, it's his child, but his chid's mom is hopefully working as well, and single mothers have a better chance of getting assistance than the dads are. Maybe this good dad has other children who live with him. Sometimes nothing *is* all you can come up with. It's hard in a small town with nothing around and everyone else is in the same position as you are. This is not black and white and really should be case by case. Jailing someone because they *can't* work is ridiculous, that'll just put them further behind on not only their CS but their other living expenses for themselves. Dads who decide not to work or pay strictly on their choice because they don't want to, that's a different story. But don't sit there and say good dads can make it work, it doesn't happen like that. Good dads can't make money just appear just because they are good. A good mom would understand.

I'm not trying to make excuses for people to not pay their obligations, but people really need to wake up and see that our economy isn't like it use to be and for some people they aren't making it no matter what.
This. EXACTLY.

I live in a small town with over 25% unemployment in the county. Who exactly can afford to pay someone to mow or pick up what the inmates are cleaning up? We don't have crap laying all over either. My dad makes a living off of scrap metal and he has to have a trailer and gas money to drive the heavy stuff there for it even to be worth it. He makes a few hundred every few months. Not what I would call "making a living". What it all boils down to is a break down in family structure (as in a loving family even if parents are not together) and society. All is cared about is MONEY not people.
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  #24  
September 13th, 2011, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by BittyBugsMama View Post
Yeah, a friend of ours got a divorce and his ex wife left her $60,000+ a year job and now works for minimum wage simply because she wanted to. He now gives almost 50% of his yearly income to child support because he has to keep up his son's standard of living. I doubt its a frequent thing that happens, but she was just that kind of vengeful woman. Kinda sucks that he has to live with almost no money because shes a spiteful woman but he knows that taking care of his son is what matters. I do think it should be on a case by case basis but I doubt that would be effective from a manpower standpoint.
That wouldn't happen here in WI, he would pay 17% (I believe) no matter how much she makes,made, or wishes to make. Alimony would be different of course.

I assumed they could take your unemployment for child support. Maybe I was wrong. Quitting a job on purpose is totally different than being laid off because they sent your position to Mexico. I also think that a child support payer should have to stick with a job they don't like. Of course it's almost impossible to prove if they quit for a good reason, or just to spite the other parent.
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  #25  
September 13th, 2011, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Repti.Mom View Post
That wouldn't happen here in WI, he would pay 17% (I believe) no matter how much she makes,made, or wishes to make. Alimony would be different of course.

I assumed they could take your unemployment for child support. Maybe I was wrong. Quitting a job on purpose is totally different than being laid off because they sent your position to Mexico. I also think that a child support payer should have to stick with a job they don't like. Of course it's almost impossible to prove if they quit for a good reason, or just to spite the other parent.
My mom quit her job because of harassment and WON her case with the state and got unemployment. Anyways, why should someone HAVE to even with being harassed, ridiculed, and embaressed on a daily basis because they have to pay child support? Shooting yourself REALLY helps the kids then.
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  #26  
September 13th, 2011, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by MommaBee View Post
I'm not sure where you live but there aren't pop cans just hanging out on the side of the road here. If they live in a poor area then it's likely that his neighbors wouldn't be able to afford someone to cut their grass, and even if they paid him $10 he'd have to buy the gas for the lawn mower. It really bothers me with the line of "Good dad". Good people get into bad situations of no fault of their own every day. This is a bad economy, we need to cut people some slack. Maybe that good dad only has enough money to support himself. We can't make him be homeless or go without food to pay for another person. Yes, it's his child, but his chid's mom is hopefully working as well, and single mothers have a better chance of getting assistance than the dads are. Maybe this good dad has other children who live with him. Sometimes nothing *is* all you can come up with. It's hard in a small town with nothing around and everyone else is in the same position as you are. This is not black and white and really should be case by case. Jailing someone because they *can't* work is ridiculous, that'll just put them further behind on not only their CS but their other living expenses for themselves. Dads who decide not to work or pay strictly on their choice because they don't want to, that's a different story. But don't sit there and say good dads can make it work, it doesn't happen like that. Good dads can't make money just appear just because they are good. A good mom would understand.

I'm not trying to make excuses for people to not pay their obligations, but people really need to wake up and see that our economy isn't like it use to be and for some people they aren't making it no matter what.
Sorry but my defintion of a good dad is one that takes care of his obligations no matter what. Finds a legal way to get the money. There is always a way, imo. Doesn't have to be a daily job. Could be sporadic work but put something on that childs account.
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  #27  
September 13th, 2011, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by GinaB View Post
Sorry but my defintion of a good dad is one that takes care of his obligations no matter what. Finds a legal way to get the money. There is always a way, imo. Doesn't have to be a daily job. Could be sporadic work but put something on that childs account.
Are you kidding me? Wow. I'm sorry, but sometimes there is just not a way for awhile. My DH and I have lived through it. We had no job, unemployment turned us down (because DH was in school at the time and was almost done), couldn't get cash assistance only medical and food support, there were NO jobs, no pop cans, no scrap metal, no one else had money to hire you, etc. So I guess if my DH would of had kids with somone else or we were split up he'd be a ****** dad because the ECONOMY dealt him a ****** hand, one that he could not overcome for awhile. Yup what horrible dads for not walking the streets collecting cans for their kids. There is NOT always a way and that is just ridiculous to say. I take it you've never lived in a small town and the economy has been good to you. Well congratu****ulations for not understanding what it's like to be knocked so far down you can't see straight. Must be nice. And if he's working sporadictly how is he going to pay for himself let alone another person who doesn't even live with him? Oh right, because it's just that easy.
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  #28  
September 13th, 2011, 08:13 AM
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Ok.
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  #29  
September 13th, 2011, 08:17 AM
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I knew I shouldn't have gotten envolved in the debates that talk about unemployment and welfare. Those who have not had to go through things like this really do not understand how hard it can be to get out.
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  #30  
September 13th, 2011, 08:59 AM
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You can't say that for sure, MommaBee. Some people might have very well walking in similar shoes like yours and still found ways. It's something that can go either way.
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  #31  
September 13th, 2011, 09:16 AM
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My ex did this exact thing, he quit a job that payed over 11 an hour and full time and now only takes 2 classes a week at a community college and his mommy pays for school and his rent of 900 and all his other bills. He was stupid enough to run his mouth on facebook saying he quit his job because he didnt want to pay close to 500 or more in child support every month. Um, he hasnt seen, spoken or supported his son since he was less than 6 months, and the only support he DID do was leave him in a bouncer all day while he smoked weed or played video games because i was working two jobs and full time school so i didnt even know what was going on everything would be spotless and clean smelling when i got home. Until my neighbor tiped me off and i started to check in at random times of the day. our son is now almost 3 and has no idea who he is, he doesnt even recognize his name or photo and that makes me happy. DCSE is taking over a year now to enforce but he just got mailed certified papers and they are waiting for them to be returned so ya... i honestly feel he should be punished in some way for what he is doing... i think jail/punishment should be an option for case-by-case scenarios.
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  #32  
September 13th, 2011, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by MommaBee View Post
I knew I shouldn't have gotten envolved in the debates that talk about unemployment and welfare. Those who have not had to go through things like this really do not understand how hard it can be to get out.

Yes, hello!!! 2 yrs without a job. Just got my old job back in May! State didn't help me. I made $65 dollars too much on last years tax return to get help.

Guess what I did? I collected cans from alot of friends and neighbors to have some money and I held ALOT of garage sales selling my stuff. BAM!
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  #33  
September 13th, 2011, 09:49 AM
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See where there is a will there is a way... just saying
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  #34  
September 13th, 2011, 10:05 AM
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I just sold some never played and never watched video games and movies on eBay. Odds are everybody has something lying around the house that a) they never use and b) someone else would be willing to pay for. Obviously hang on to sentimental things and heirlooms.
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  #35  
September 13th, 2011, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by K.A.T View Post
You can't say that for sure, MommaBee. Some people might have very well walking in similar shoes like yours and still found ways. It's something that can go either way.
Right, which is why it should be case by case basis and not make people go to jail who really don't have a way to bring in cash or extra cash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GinaB View Post
Yes, hello!!! 2 yrs without a job. Just got my old job back in May! State didn't help me. I made $65 dollars too much on last years tax return to get help.

Guess what I did? I collected cans from alot of friends and neighbors to have some money and I held ALOT of garage sales selling my stuff. BAM!
That's wonderful, that truly is. But that was not our case. Which is why you can't say "there is always a way" because there isn't always a way.

DH was out of work for 2 years, no unemployment, no state help except food support and medical support, there were no jobs, not even temp jobs. Nothing. No cans just lying around (and we don't drink pop), we lived in a town of 500. I didn't have anything not in use to sell. I'm glad it worked out for you, but it did not work that way for us. It was real scary. We were doing all we could, but we fell short all the time. DH almost enlisted because that was looking like our only way out. Once we got the eviction notice for our house we decided we needed to make a drastic change. DH cleaned out his flight account and we used that to move and to set up somewhere else. It was real hard, a big struggle, and was really sad/depressing. DH had been laid off 3 times (different companies), was suppose to be secure because of his ranking/education. But no one is safe in this economy. We're good people. We donate money to charities, we donate our old clothes to Salvation Army for those less fortunate, we save, we appreciate what we have, we try to help anyone we can in any way, we do a lot of free things for other people, we're respectful, etc. But sometimes life deals you with a **** hand and for some reason you just keep getting further knocked down and so far away from being stable. This is why debates like this get to me and it really makes me annoyed and pretty disgusted with people thinking that there is just always a way to make money. There isn't. For some people, maybe a small %, there just isn't for awhile. Not for ever of course, but for months sometimes years there just isn't a way. Even after DH got work again it took years to get back what we lost.

ETA: Just for the record it's $.62 per lb for cans. In a town of 500, and non-pop drinkers, that would take a very long time to make any bit of money. Especially since the closest recycling center that takes cans is 45 minutes away and gas is $3.79 a gallon.
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  #36  
September 13th, 2011, 12:27 PM
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^ Ummm I've been saying it should be case by case the whole time.
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  #37  
September 13th, 2011, 12:45 PM
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^ I know. Sorry, my rant is more for those who think that money falls from trees or there are pop cans in the gutters in every town. I'm just irritable today.
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  #38  
September 13th, 2011, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MommaBee View Post
Right, which is why it should be case by case basis and not make people go to jail who really don't have a way to bring in cash or extra cash.



That's wonderful, that truly is. But that was not our case. Which is why you can't say "there is always a way" because there isn't always a way.

DH was out of work for 2 years, no unemployment, no state help except food support and medical support, there were no jobs, not even temp jobs. Nothing. No cans just lying around (and we don't drink pop), we lived in a town of 500. I didn't have anything not in use to sell. I'm glad it worked out for you, but it did not work that way for us. It was real scary. We were doing all we could, but we fell short all the time. DH almost enlisted because that was looking like our only way out. Once we got the eviction notice for our house we decided we needed to make a drastic change. DH cleaned out his flight account and we used that to move and to set up somewhere else. It was real hard, a big struggle, and was really sad/depressing. DH had been laid off 3 times (different companies), was suppose to be secure because of his ranking/education. But no one is safe in this economy. We're good people. We donate money to charities, we donate our old clothes to Salvation Army for those less fortunate, we save, we appreciate what we have, we try to help anyone we can in any way, we do a lot of free things for other people, we're respectful, etc. But sometimes life deals you with a **** hand and for some reason you just keep getting further knocked down and so far away from being stable. This is why debates like this get to me and it really makes me annoyed and pretty disgusted with people thinking that there is just always a way to make money. There isn't. For some people, maybe a small %, there just isn't for awhile. Not for ever of course, but for months sometimes years there just isn't a way. Even after DH got work again it took years to get back what we lost.

ETA: Just for the record it's $.62 per lb for cans. In a town of 500, and non-pop drinkers, that would take a very long time to make any bit of money. Especially since the closest recycling center that takes cans is 45 minutes away and gas is $3.79 a gallon.

Ok, well the cans were just an example. Did you ever think of crafts, sewing, keeping kids, applying for a job yourself, cleaning houses, anything you are good at or not even good at?

My point was everyone has it hard but there is nothing that stops someone from making some type of money, no matter how small the amount.

If you just give up and throw your hands in the air and say "I can't do it", then you are going to keep yourself in poverty.
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  #39  
September 13th, 2011, 12:52 PM
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It should be looked at case by case but 2 years is a long time for someone who doesn't have to worry about finding childcare to not be working as I do believe that in most cases there is a job out there. It might not be what someone wants, the pay may be low, and there may be no benefits, but I do think most of the time, a job can be found within 2 years.
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  #40  
September 13th, 2011, 01:05 PM
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It should be looked at case by case but 2 years is a long time for someone who doesn't have to worry about finding childcare to not be working as I do believe that in most cases there is a job out there. It might not be what someone wants, the pay may be low, and there may be no benefits, but I do think most of the time, a job can be found within 2 years.
get out of my head!
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