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  #1  
November 3rd, 2011, 07:07 AM
Repti.Mom's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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State Senate OKs GOP-backed sex-ed bill | Sheboygan Press | sheboyganpress.com

Quote:
The bill would effectively repeal the measure passed by Democrats last year, the so-called Healthy Youth Act. That law says that schools choosing to offer sex education lessons must use medically accurate and age appropriate curriculum, including information about contraceptives and sexually transmitted diseases.
So basically we'll tell the kids to just not have sex til marriage and pretend it isn't happening anyway. Is this any better?
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  #2  
November 3rd, 2011, 07:31 AM
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That's not how I read it. I could be wrong, but I read it as they're going to include that along with the contraceptive route. I see nothing wrong with promoting both, but to promote one without acknowledging the other is not the way to go. We need to be realistic and teach kid that there are multiple options out there. Of course it should all be age appropriate and kept to the basics.
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  #3  
November 3rd, 2011, 07:48 AM
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I quoted the part where it says it repeals the law where they were required to teach about contraception etc. I see it's not banned. I think it's just a little sad for the kids who go to the hoity jesus schools who now are not required to teach about std and pregnancy prevention, and whose parents are too afraid or naive to talk about it. They are going to lack big time.
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  #4  
November 3rd, 2011, 08:48 AM
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"The new measure wouldn’t ban teaching about contraception, but it would require schools offering sex ed to stress abstinence as the only reliable way to prevent pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases. "

""What we’re about to do is take a huge step back," said Sen. Jon Erpenbach, D-Middleton. "We’re taking a step back to the Flintstone era."

Sen. Chris Larson, D-Milwaukee, said the bill showed the GOP was putting its head in the sand and warned that children would instead learn about sex from people like Kim Kardashian on reality television shows."

"Sen. Dave Hansen, D-Green Bay, warned of a school district in northern Wisconsin that taught abstinence-only education and had the highest rate of teen pregnancy in Wisconsin."

Those quotes basically sum it up for me. I think stressing abstinence only sex ed is an outdated and unrealistic way to approach it. We don't live in the 1940s. Kids see stuff on TV that will give them the wrong ideas on how to have sex or why to have sex. I think abstinence should be included but not stressed as a better method.
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  #5  
November 3rd, 2011, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BittyBugsMama View Post
"The new measure wouldn’t ban teaching about contraception, but it would require schools offering sex ed to stress abstinence as the only reliable way to prevent pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases. "

""What we’re about to do is take a huge step back," said Sen. Jon Erpenbach, D-Middleton. "We’re taking a step back to the Flintstone era."

Sen. Chris Larson, D-Milwaukee, said the bill showed the GOP was putting its head in the sand and warned that children would instead learn about sex from people like Kim Kardashian on reality television shows."

"Sen. Dave Hansen, D-Green Bay, warned of a school district in northern Wisconsin that taught abstinence-only education and had the highest rate of teen pregnancy in Wisconsin."

Those quotes basically sum it up for me. I think stressing abstinence only sex ed is an outdated and unrealistic way to approach it. We don't live in the 1940s. Kids see stuff on TV that will give them the wrong ideas on how to have sex or why to have sex. I think abstinence should be included but not stressed as a better method.
While I disagree with focusing solely on abstinence, I do disagree that abstinence should not be taught as the best/better method. I'm really not being hypocritcal (as a single mom, I obvisouly did not wait until I was married). Regardless of your beliefs (religious or otherwise) about premarital sex, it's proven time and time again that abstinence IS the absolute best method for preventing pregnancy and STDs. It is the ONLY 100% effective method. Whether a student choses to go this route is irrelevant, it's still the better method at preventing unwanted consequences of sex.

That said, JUST teaching abstinence or even presenting all the facts in a way that might make a student feel shameful for chosing a different route is extremely counterproductive. Like with anything in life, we, as humans, don't always take the best route. Say you can drive to work two ways, one way is quicker, shorter, and easier. It saves you time and gas. BUT the other way goes past a drive through Starbucks and you really want a Grande Pepermint Mocha. Clearly, you don't NEED the Pepermint Mocha, but you really want one today. You'll add a few extra miles to your trip and an extra 5-10 minutes. You add distance, time, and money. It's clearly not the BEST route and it may not even be the MOST responsible route; however, it doesn't mean it's wrong or bad to go that way. And yeah, I did just compare sex to a Pepermint Mocha.

My point is just that while one way may be the best way, it doesn't automatically make every other option bad, and THAT is how sex should be presented in sex ed at school. You don't want to get an STD or have a baby? Great! The BEST way to do that is to not have sex. However, if you DO chose to have sex before your ready to have a baby (I'm assuming no one is ever ready to get an STD), because it's really tempting (just like that Pepermint Mocha), don't feel embarrassed or bad to talk to your parents or teacher for information. And then, here are some really really important ways to make sex safer!

Honestly, just like at any stage in life, you have to chose the best birth control for you. Obviously permanent birth control is typically more effective than the pill or condoms, but if someone wants to have more children eventually they aren't going to chose permanent birth control. For some people, abstinence is the right choice and for others it isn't. Schools need to cater to everyone, regardless of their choice.
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  #6  
November 3rd, 2011, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeToTheMax View Post
While I disagree with focusing solely on abstinence, I do disagree that abstinence should not be taught as the best/better method. I'm really not being hypocritcal (as a single mom, I obvisouly did not wait until I was married). Regardless of your beliefs (religious or otherwise) about premarital sex, it's proven time and time again that abstinence IS the absolute best method for preventing pregnancy and STDs. It is the ONLY 100% effective method. Whether a student choses to go this route is irrelevant, it's still the better method at preventing unwanted consequences of sex.

That said, JUST teaching abstinence or even presenting all the facts in a way that might make a student feel shameful for chosing a different route is extremely counterproductive. Like with anything in life, we, as humans, don't always take the best route. Say you can drive to work two ways, one way is quicker, shorter, and easier. It saves you time and gas. BUT the other way goes past a drive through Starbucks and you really want a Grande Pepermint Mocha. Clearly, you don't NEED the Pepermint Mocha, but you really want one today. You'll add a few extra miles to your trip and an extra 5-10 minutes. You add distance, time, and money. It's clearly not the BEST route and it may not even be the MOST responsible route; however, it doesn't mean it's wrong or bad to go that way. And yeah, I did just compare sex to a Pepermint Mocha.

My point is just that while one way may be the best way, it doesn't automatically make every other option bad, and THAT is how sex should be presented in sex ed at school. You don't want to get an STD or have a baby? Great! The BEST way to do that is to not have sex. However, if you DO chose to have sex before your ready to have a baby (I'm assuming no one is ever ready to get an STD), because it's really tempting (just like that Pepermint Mocha), don't feel embarrassed or bad to talk to your parents or teacher for information. And then, here are some really really important ways to make sex safer!

Honestly, just like at any stage in life, you have to chose the best birth control for you. Obviously permanent birth control is typically more effective than the pill or condoms, but if someone wants to have more children eventually they aren't going to chose permanent birth control. For some people, abstinence is the right choice and for others it isn't. Schools need to cater to everyone, regardless of their choice.
Thank you for posting that. I was going to, but just didn't feel like it. While it might not be the most practiced method. It is the only truly 100% effective method.
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  #7  
November 3rd, 2011, 01:10 PM
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Yup, it is completely true that abstinence is the only 100% safe method, so I see nothing wrong with teaching that ALONG WITH other safe sex practices.

The most successful campaigns to lower teen pregnancy rates encompass both sides of the political/social spectrum and include various community partners. Check out Tillamook County, Oregon. In the early 90s they dropped their teen pregnancy rate significantly through a strategy that included teaching abstinence AND birth control, along with other measures likes short wait times at the health clinic (access to bc) and recreation programs (give them something to do after school besides have sex).
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  #8  
November 3rd, 2011, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeToTheMax;25130337[B
]While I disagree with focusing solely on abstinence, I do disagree that abstinence should not be taught as the best/better method. I'm really not being hypocritcal (as a single mom, I obvisouly did not wait until I was married). Regardless of your beliefs (religious or otherwise) about premarital sex, it's proven time and time again that abstinence IS the absolute best method for preventing pregnancy and STDs. It is the ONLY 100% effective method. Whether a student choses to go this route is irrelevant, it's still the better method at preventing unwanted consequences of sex.[/B]

That said, JUST teaching abstinence or even presenting all the facts in a way that might make a student feel shameful for chosing a different route is extremely counterproductive. Like with anything in life, we, as humans, don't always take the best route. Say you can drive to work two ways, one way is quicker, shorter, and easier. It saves you time and gas. BUT the other way goes past a drive through Starbucks and you really want a Grande Pepermint Mocha. Clearly, you don't NEED the Pepermint Mocha, but you really want one today. You'll add a few extra miles to your trip and an extra 5-10 minutes. You add distance, time, and money. It's clearly not the BEST route and it may not even be the MOST responsible route; however, it doesn't mean it's wrong or bad to go that way. And yeah, I did just compare sex to a Pepermint Mocha.

My point is just that while one way may be the best way, it doesn't automatically make every other option bad, and THAT is how sex should be presented in sex ed at school. You don't want to get an STD or have a baby? Great! The BEST way to do that is to not have sex. However, if you DO chose to have sex before your ready to have a baby (I'm assuming no one is ever ready to get an STD), because it's really tempting (just like that Pepermint Mocha), don't feel embarrassed or bad to talk to your parents or teacher for information. And then, here are some really really important ways to make sex safer!

Honestly, just like at any stage in life, you have to chose the best birth control for you. Obviously permanent birth control is typically more effective than the pill or condoms, but if someone wants to have more children eventually they aren't going to chose permanent birth control. For some people, abstinence is the right choice and for others it isn't. Schools need to cater to everyone, regardless of their choice.
Well obviously its the only 100% effective method. Its the best method for preventing unwanted pregnancy and STDs but its not the most realistic method. Thats what I was talking about. It shouldn't be stressed as the best method because its not a realistic way to teach teens about sex.
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  #9  
November 3rd, 2011, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BittyBugsMama View Post
Well obviously its the only 100% effective method. Its the best method for preventing unwanted pregnancy and STDs but its not the most realistic method. Thats what I was talking about. It shouldn't be stressed as the best method because its not a realistic way to teach teens about sex.
I still disagree. I mean, I do agree that it's not 100% realistic. However, you can teach that something is the best way without saying it is the only way. For a lot of teens, it is a realistic option. And while I'm not saying that teenagers who have sex are bad or that having sex as a teenager is bad, I think very few people would complain if ALL teenagers chose abstinence (again, I'm not saying that the SHOULD, but that it wouldn't be bad if they did).

I guess I see it as a heirarchy. Abstinence is the best option for prevention, multiple forms of birth control is below that (liket the pill and condoms), and then if you want to have sex and aren't on the pill and/or don't have access to it, then still use condoms. It's all about picking the best option for your situation, but that doesn't mean we still shouldn't teach for ALL situations. Saying that abstinence isn't a better option would be a big falsification, and could end up really confusing kids into thinking that using some forms of birth control are just as effecting (and I have met people who truly think that).
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  #10  
November 3rd, 2011, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BittyBugsMama View Post
Well obviously its the only 100% effective method. Its the best method for preventing unwanted pregnancy and STDs but its not the most realistic method. Thats what I was talking about. It shouldn't be stressed as the best method because its not a realistic way to teach teens about sex.
What?! Abstinence IS the best/safest method. Period. There is really no arguing with that. That is why they call protected sex safER sex. Even with the best protection, it is still possible to get pregnant or an STD. Kids need to know that. Other methods need to be taught too, but to leave out abstinence as an option, and the safest and best one at that, is ridiculous. I also disagree that it is unrealistic to expect that it's impossible for kids to abstain. Lots do.

Last edited by fluffycheeks; November 3rd, 2011 at 03:30 PM.
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  #11  
November 3rd, 2011, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeToTheMax View Post
While I disagree with focusing solely on abstinence, I do disagree that abstinence should not be taught as the best/better method. I'm really not being hypocritcal (as a single mom, I obvisouly did not wait until I was married). Regardless of your beliefs (religious or otherwise) about premarital sex, it's proven time and time again that abstinence IS the absolute best method for preventing pregnancy and STDs. It is the ONLY 100% effective method. Whether a student choses to go this route is irrelevant, it's still the better method at preventing unwanted consequences of sex.

That said, JUST teaching abstinence or even presenting all the facts in a way that might make a student feel shameful for chosing a different route is extremely counterproductive. Like with anything in life, we, as humans, don't always take the best route. Say you can drive to work two ways, one way is quicker, shorter, and easier. It saves you time and gas. BUT the other way goes past a drive through Starbucks and you really want a Grande Pepermint Mocha. Clearly, you don't NEED the Pepermint Mocha, but you really want one today. You'll add a few extra miles to your trip and an extra 5-10 minutes. You add distance, time, and money. It's clearly not the BEST route and it may not even be the MOST responsible route; however, it doesn't mean it's wrong or bad to go that way. And yeah, I did just compare sex to a Pepermint Mocha.

My point is just that while one way may be the best way, it doesn't automatically make every other option bad, and THAT is how sex should be presented in sex ed at school. You don't want to get an STD or have a baby? Great! The BEST way to do that is to not have sex. However, if you DO chose to have sex before your ready to have a baby (I'm assuming no one is ever ready to get an STD), because it's really tempting (just like that Pepermint Mocha), don't feel embarrassed or bad to talk to your parents or teacher for information. And then, here are some really really important ways to make sex safer!

Honestly, just like at any stage in life, you have to chose the best birth control for you. Obviously permanent birth control is typically more effective than the pill or condoms, but if someone wants to have more children eventually they aren't going to chose permanent birth control. For some people, abstinence is the right choice and for others it isn't. Schools need to cater to everyone, regardless of their choice.



This, precisely.
Yea, sure, lots of kids are having sex so they need to know how to be safe about it. But no matter what do you, abstinence IS the best thing.
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  #12  
November 3rd, 2011, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by fluffycheeks View Post
What?! Abstinence IS the best/safest method. Period. There is really no arguing with that. That is why they call protected sex safER sex. Even with the best protection, it is still possible to get pregnant or an STD. Kids need to know that. Other methods need to be taught too, but to leave out abstinence as an option, and the safest and best one at that, is ridiculous. I also disagree that it is unrealistic to expect that it's impossible for kids to abstain. Lots do.
Where did I say abstinence wasn't the safest or best method? I'm fully aware how protection can fail and you can get pregnant or get an STD, anyone with common sense knows BC fails. I didn't say they should leave out abstinence as a method being taught... where did you get that? And once again, where did I say that its impossible for kids to abstain?
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  #13  
November 3rd, 2011, 07:55 PM
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I think all options should be taught...can't argue with abstinence being the best pregnancy prevention method since it's a factually true statement

But i'm curious...how many here practiced complete abstinence throughout high school? For purposes of answering you can define "complete" however you'd like to, but it has to at least mean no sexual intercourse
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  #14  
November 3rd, 2011, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BittyBugsMama View Post
Where did I say abstinence wasn't the safest or best method? I'm fully aware how protection can fail and you can get pregnant or get an STD, anyone with common sense knows BC fails. I didn't say they should leave out abstinence as a method being taught... where did you get that? And once again, where did I say that its impossible for kids to abstain?
You said, "It shouldn't be stressed as the best method.." You didn't say it's impossible or kids to abstain, but that it is unrealistic. So, since it isn't likely that they will use the best method of protection, it shouldn't be stressed that itIS the best method of protection?
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  #15  
November 3rd, 2011, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Undomesticated Housewife View Post
You said, "It shouldn't be stressed as the best method.." You didn't say it's impossible or kids to abstain, but that it is unrealistic. So, since it isn't likely that they will use the best method of protection, it shouldn't be stressed that itIS the best method of protection?
I don't think it should be stressed as the best method. I think every option should be taught equally, since one solution doesn't work for everyone. If they are going to stress (or emphasize) abstinence then in my mind they need to stress birth control and condoms on an equal level. I do think abstinence is unrealistic when it comes to teens, not all, but definitely a majority. It can be stressed as the safest method and most effective method of protection but I think when it comes to teenagers, trying to convince them that abstinence is the best way to go is unrealistic. Thats how I feel about it, others don't. Thats the joy of opinions, we are all entitled to them.
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  #16  
November 3rd, 2011, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by L-SBB View Post
I think all options should be taught...can't argue with abstinence being the best pregnancy prevention method since it's a factually true statement

But i'm curious...how many here practiced complete abstinence throughout high school? For purposes of answering you can define "complete" however you'd like to, but it has to at least mean no sexual intercourse

I didn't.
But because I made mistakes doesn't mean I'm going to just give up and not even try to point my kids in the right direction.
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  #17  
November 4th, 2011, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L-SBB View Post
I think all options should be taught...can't argue with abstinence being the best pregnancy prevention method since it's a factually true statement

But i'm curious...how many here practiced complete abstinence throughout high school? For purposes of answering you can define "complete" however you'd like to, but it has to at least mean no sexual intercourse
I did. All I ever did was some serious kissing before I married my first husband at the age of 21.

I was tempted, but never felt any of them was worth the risks of pregnancy.
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  #18  
November 4th, 2011, 05:25 AM
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Well you're lucky then, because we all know kissing causes pregnancy!

I'm 27, Noah is 10 you do the math.
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  #19  
November 4th, 2011, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by BittyBugsMama View Post
I don't think it should be stressed as the best method. I think every option should be taught equally, since one solution doesn't work for everyone. If they are going to stress (or emphasize) abstinence then in my mind they need to stress birth control and condoms on an equal level. I do think abstinence is unrealistic when it comes to teens, not all, but definitely a majority. It can be stressed as the safest method and most effective method of protection but I think when it comes to teenagers, trying to convince them that abstinence is the best way to go is unrealistic. Thats how I feel about it, others don't. Thats the joy of opinions, we are all entitled to them.
This is what I was trying to question you about. Why should every option be taught equally when they are not all equal? That is just setting kids up for failure (aka unwanted pregnancy and STD's). Spermicide alone, for example, has a typical use failure rate of 29% and a perfect use failure rate of 18% and doesn't protect at all against STDs. Are you saying that should be presented as an equal option to, say the pill, which has a typical use failure rate of 8% and a perfect use failure rate of about 1%? Is that what you're saying, or are you saying that abstinence should just not be presented on an equal playing field as birth control methods, even though it is the only 100% way to protect yourself from pregnancy and STDs? The fact is, birth control - ANY type of birth control - and abstinence are not equal in any way when you look at the hard numbers. Why wouldn't we present kids with all the facts? Why not say the ONLY way they can 100% protect themselves and their partners is through abstinence, but if they have thought it through and it's something they really want to do, here are your options and success and failure rates of each. Honestly, I think presenting ONLY the birth control options is as bad as not teaching them at all. I knew a girl who got pregnant in hs who was using condoms with her boyfriend when she got pregnant. She was devastated, and claimed to have no idea that it was possible. I believe her, because in my high school (Oregon, which at the time pretty much taught only condoms) never talked about the failure rate. Our sex ed consisted of "if you're going to do it, use a condom."

As far as abstinence being unrealistic... not really. The average age for a boy to have sex for the first time is 16.9, it is 17.4 years for a girl, which shows that many, many, many kids are waiting until they are out of high school or close to it. I dont' think an abstinence only program is the way to go, but I think programs also need to focus on the fact that if you choose to wait, you are NOT alone.

Oh, and L-SBB, yes, I waited. Until marriage, and I don't have a single regret about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BittyBugsMama View Post
Well obviously its the only 100% effective method. Its the best method for preventing unwanted pregnancy and STDs but its not the most realistic method. Thats what I was talking about. It shouldn't be stressed as the best method because its not a realistic way to teach teens about sex.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BittyBugsMama View Post
Where did I say abstinence wasn't the safest or best method? I'm fully aware how protection can fail and you can get pregnant or get an STD, anyone with common sense knows BC fails. I didn't say they should leave out abstinence as a method being taught... where did you get that? And once again, where did I say that its impossible for kids to abstain?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BittyBugsMama View Post
I don't think it should be stressed as the best method. I think every option should be taught equally, since one solution doesn't work for everyone. If they are going to stress (or emphasize) abstinence then in my mind they need to stress birth control and condoms on an equal level. I do think abstinence is unrealistic when it comes to teens, not all, but definitely a majority. It can be stressed as the safest method and most effective method of protection but I think when it comes to teenagers, trying to convince them that abstinence is the best way to go is unrealistic. Thats how I feel about it, others don't. Thats the joy of opinions, we are all entitled to them.
Read the above, you keep contradicting yourself. You may not be saying that abstinence isn't the safest or best method, just that we should withold that information from kids?
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  #20  
November 4th, 2011, 07:39 AM
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*raises hand* I waited till marriage, based on religious and personal beliefs. I didn't find it that hard to abstain in high school. University, after I'd met my future husband, was a little harder

I know plenty of people who didn't have sex in high school, and religion had nothing to do with it.
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