Log In Sign Up

Childbirth as art?


Forum: Heated Debates

Notices

Welcome to the JustMommies Message Boards.

We pride ourselves on having the friendliest and most welcoming forums for moms and moms to be! Please take a moment and register for free so you can be a part of our growing community of mothers. If you have any problems registering please drop an email to boards@justmommies.com.

Our community is moderated by our moderation team so you won't see spam or offensive messages posted on our forums. Each of our message boards is hosted by JustMommies hosts, whose names are listed at the top each board. We hope you find our message boards friendly, helpful, and fun to be on!

Reply Post New Topic
  Subscribe To Heated Debates LinkBack Topic Tools Search this Topic Display Modes
  #1  
November 8th, 2011, 07:43 AM
fluffycheeks's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,207
This article is pretty biased, but I think you can get the idea of what is going on here. This woman is giving birth in an art gallery next month and calling it "performance art." What do you think? Art or not?

TODAYMoms - Childbirth as performance art? Top 10 reasons this is a bad idea
Reply With Quote
  #2  
November 8th, 2011, 08:03 AM
BittyBugsMama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,317
I think its disgusting. Why do people feel the need to make a spectacle out of everything? Just screams LOOK AT MEEEEEE!!
__________________
~Alicia~
Reply With Quote
  #3  
November 8th, 2011, 08:31 AM
LindseyE117's Avatar Wookie's Girl
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,741
I do not think childbirth is an art. I think it is a natural occurance. Any women with children has done it. Everyone can poop, but I would not call that art either.
__________________

Thank you Shortcake for my beautiful siggy!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
November 8th, 2011, 09:27 AM
plan4fate's Avatar I may bend, but not break
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 26,316
Send a message via MSN to plan4fate
Quote:
Originally Posted by BittyBugsMama View Post
I think its disgusting. Why do people feel the need to make a spectacle out of everything? Just screams LOOK AT MEEEEEE!!
Ditto
__________________
~TTC #1 together 2 years and counting ~


Awesome siggy made by Jaidynsmum
Matthew&Mark 08/24/2005 9w1d, Mattie Anne 04/07/2008 8w Mel|&Dee 01/19/2010 (8 weeks) and 5 chemical pregnancies
Hope 07/22/2012@4w1d, Konnor 11/24/2012@3w6d,"Emmy"1/15/2013@ 3w6d, Ronen 02/10/2013@3w5d, Joy 07/19/2013@3w6d, "Pea" 09/06/2013@ 3w3d

Me: Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, PCOS, Insulin resistant
175mcg Synthyroid, 1500mg Metformin
Him: MFI low count, low morphology, low motillity
Seeing MFI specialist/RE in 2015
Attempting vitamins for remainder of 2014
Weight loss goal #1 - 10% body weight 23.4lbs - accomplished July 13 2014
Reply With Quote
  #5  
November 8th, 2011, 10:39 AM
WineKeepsMeSane's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: May 2007
Location: where chili has beans
Posts: 13,348
So, is pooping on the delivery table also art? Cause that's the first thing I thought of
__________________
Ashley, mommy to Mackenzie 01/01/08

Reply With Quote
  #6  
November 8th, 2011, 11:36 AM
HappyHippy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pavia, Italy
Posts: 5,959
Why is this disgusting but we have more than 1 TV show about giving birth in a hospital?

I like it. Women need to see that there is more than one way to give birth. TV shows generally show mom laying flat on her back, with an epidural and nurses counting to 10. That is not the only way to give birth. Perhaps if we had TV shows about homebirth or birth center births women wouldnt' feel the need to do things like this. But since we don't women are taking it upon themselves to make sure women know they have options. This paticular woman felt that birth is an art, it is natural for her to want to share it like this.

What I find disgusting is that 1 in 3 women have a c-section in this country and everyone seems to be fine with that. And when someone isn't fine with that and want to speak out about options in childbirth they are called disgusting, attention seakers, etc. I also find it disgusting with the attitude we have towards childbirth in this country. Childbirth does not need to be filled with fear, or a means to an end. It can be a fun, happy experience.

FYI, she had the baby, a boy. He was healthy, the birth went fine and there were 20 spectators. I would have totally went to it if I were in NYC. It is actually a great education experience.
__________________
Mama to G, L & twins F & M
Started off 2013 homebirthing suprise twins Fia Celesta & Maddalena Isabella

Last edited by HappyHippy; November 8th, 2011 at 11:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
November 8th, 2011, 12:21 PM
K.A.T's Avatar Enjoying her Sticky Bun
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NYC
Posts: 13,499
I find the creation of life art in itself. So, yeah, I could see this as art. What bothers me would be the charge for this. If you really want this to be art, then don't charge. I feel like she could be making money off of something that one should just not make money of off.
__________________

❤ Big Thanks to Vicki, trishosaurus, & Shortcake for the great siggies of my kids! ❤
Liz (36) Kev (35)
Tiana (16) Doni (14) Lil Kev (8) Ethan 7/23/12 Lil Roo 10/29/11



Reply With Quote
  #8  
November 8th, 2011, 02:08 PM
fluffycheeks's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,207
Quote:
Originally Posted by MommaBee View Post
Why is this disgusting but we have more than 1 TV show about giving birth in a hospital?

I like it. Women need to see that there is more than one way to give birth. TV shows generally show mom laying flat on her back, with an epidural and nurses counting to 10. That is not the only way to give birth. Perhaps if we had TV shows about homebirth or birth center births women wouldnt' feel the need to do things like this. But since we don't women are taking it upon themselves to make sure women know they have options. This paticular woman felt that birth is an art, it is natural for her to want to share it like this.

What I find disgusting is that 1 in 3 women have a c-section in this country and everyone seems to be fine with that. And when someone isn't fine with that and want to speak out about options in childbirth they are called disgusting, attention seakers, etc. I also find it disgusting with the attitude we have towards childbirth in this country. Childbirth does not need to be filled with fear, or a means to an end. It can be a fun, happy experience.

FYI, she had the baby, a boy. He was healthy, the birth went fine and there were 20 spectators. I would have totally went to it if I were in NYC. It is actually a great education experience.


I agree with you that it is a great educational experience, but does that make it art? Nearly half the population has or will give birth, so I think calling it art is a bit of a stretch. What did she do to make it more unique and beautiful than the billions of women who have done it before her? I'm guessing not much. To call something art, to me, would imply that it is something the average person can't do, and most women have or will do this. I don't think it's disgusting, any more than any birth show, but I think it is a bit narscicistic of her to claim that HER birth is art while the average woman's is not.

As a mom, I wouldn't do that, not only because it's not my thing and I don't consider it art, but because I wouldn't want 20 strangers breathing their germs all over my newborn.

Oh, and isn't there a birth show about a birthing center? There used to be, I think it was called House of Babies or something like that.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
November 8th, 2011, 02:17 PM
HappyHippy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pavia, Italy
Posts: 5,959
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffycheeks View Post
I agree with you that it is a great educational experience, but does that make it art? Nearly half the population has or will give birth, so I think calling it art is a bit of a stretch. What did she do to make it more unique and beautiful than the billions of women who have done it before her? I'm guessing not much. To call something art, to me, would imply that it is something the average person can't do, and most women have or will do this. I don't think it's disgusting, any more than any birth show, but I think it is a bit narscicistic of her to claim that HER birth is art while the average woman's is not.

As a mom, I wouldn't do that, not only because it's not my thing and I don't consider it art, but because I wouldn't want 20 strangers breathing their germs all over my newborn.

Oh, and isn't there a birth show about a birthing center? There used to be, I think it was called House of Babies or something like that.
I think saying the bolded is downplaying birth. Some people feel birth is nothing but a means to an end, other's feel it is a horrible thing to endure, other find it beautiful, some find it spiritual, etc. We all view birth as something different, why not art? What makes something art? Lots of paintings are of the same thing (trees, flowers, people, etc), many people have the same tattoo (one that was on a piece of flash in the parlor), some find body piercing art, or drawing with blood. Heck I remember reading an article where the person sculped with poop and he said it was art. Others feel art is something physical, not just a picture, but an action. There are so many different forms of art, this is just another one.

I find the second bolded to be a little funny. In the hospital there are so many germs, there are sick and dying people, nurses that come from one place to the next. With ds1 there was about 20 strangers (hospital staff) breathing on my newborn. I believe in the article she said she made it sterile. The spectators were probably not as close to her and her baby as hospital staff are. And many people who give birth in a hospital do it with more than 20 strangers (teaching hospitals, and things of the like). She also said she felt most comfortable at the gallery.
__________________
Mama to G, L & twins F & M
Started off 2013 homebirthing suprise twins Fia Celesta & Maddalena Isabella

Last edited by HappyHippy; November 8th, 2011 at 02:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
November 8th, 2011, 02:30 PM
fluffycheeks's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,207
Quote:
Originally Posted by MommaBee View Post
I think saying the bolded is downplaying birth. Some people feel birth is nothing but a means to an end, other's feel it is a horrible thing to endure, other find it beautiful, some find it spiritual, etc. We all view birth as something different, why not art? What makes something art? Lots of paintings are of the same thing (trees, flowers, people, etc), many people have the same tattoo (one that was on a piece of flash in the parlor), some find body piercing art, or drawing with blood. Heck I remember reading an article where the person sculped with poop and he said it was art. Others feel art is something physical, not just a picture, but an action. There are so many different forms of art, this is just another one.

I find the second bolded to be a little funny. In the hospital there are so many germs, there are sick and dying people, nurses that come from one place to the next. With ds1 there was about 20 strangers (hospital staff) breathing on my newborn. I believe in the article she said she made it sterile. The spectators were probably not as close to her and her baby as hospital staff are. And many people who give birth in a hospital do it with more than 20 strangers (teaching hospitals, and things of the like). She also said she felt most comfortable at the gallery.

How is that downplaying birth? Every person on this earth was birthed, that's a fact. I don't think birth is just a means to an end, but I don't think it is art. Sure, those other things you listed have been done by tons of people, but does that make them gallery worthy? Usually, something has to be really amazing or unique to be gallery worthy. I'm not going to pay money to a gallery to view someone's live birth anymore than I'm going to pay to see someone's tramp stamp. There are thousands of live births on the internet, are they all art?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
November 8th, 2011, 03:09 PM
fluffycheeks's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,207
Ok I just read a couple more articles about this and I'm convinced that she's just a weirdo starved for attention or r something. Her other performance art includes a reenactment of her losing her virginity (!?) and her grandfather's funeral. How are any of these events art? I just call them living life.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
November 8th, 2011, 03:22 PM
HappyHippy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pavia, Italy
Posts: 5,959
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffycheeks View Post
How is that downplaying birth? Every person on this earth was birthed, that's a fact. I don't think birth is just a means to an end, but I don't think it is art. Sure, those other things you listed have been done by tons of people, but does that make them gallery worthy? Usually, something has to be really amazing or unique to be gallery worthy. I'm not going to pay money to a gallery to view someone's live birth anymore than I'm going to pay to see someone's tramp stamp. There are thousands of live births on the internet, are they all art?
Yes it's a fact, but it's the way some people say it makes it sound like they are downplaying it. Plenty of people put things in a gallery that are weird. The point is *some* people find birth an art. A birth on the internet isn't really live unless you're watching it in front of you, IMO. Sure it is happening now, but it's not really live, it's just being lived streamed. I don't think she was saying birth in and of itself is art, but she was trying to make it more of an art, hence the gallery. It's something different and knew. If it's not for you then it's not for you, but for some people this was a really amazing thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffycheeks View Post
Ok I just read a couple more articles about this and I'm convinced that she's just a weirdo starved for attention or r something. Her other performance art includes a reenactment of her losing her virginity (!?) and her grandfather's funeral. How are any of these events art? I just call them living life.
I don't think she is trying to say that is art, I think she is trying to make it more artful. That's her thing, it's not mine, but that's hers and clearly some people are interested in her form of art. For me it's more of a play, but I guess some people consider plays to be art as well.
__________________
Mama to G, L & twins F & M
Started off 2013 homebirthing suprise twins Fia Celesta & Maddalena Isabella
Reply With Quote
  #13  
November 8th, 2011, 03:24 PM
plan4fate's Avatar I may bend, but not break
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 26,316
Send a message via MSN to plan4fate
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffycheeks View Post
Ok I just read a couple more articles about this and I'm convinced that she's just a weirdo starved for attention or r something. Her other performance art includes a reenactment of her losing her virginity (!?) and her grandfather's funeral. How are any of these events art? I just call them living life.
Really? Wow. yeah this woman is going a little overboard.

Wouldn't the reenactment be considered public indecency?

I remember how disgusted people where when there was the sculpture of Britney Spears giving birth. Sculptures are at least art! Acting is an art, living life is NOT art.
__________________
~TTC #1 together 2 years and counting ~


Awesome siggy made by Jaidynsmum
Matthew&Mark 08/24/2005 9w1d, Mattie Anne 04/07/2008 8w Mel|&Dee 01/19/2010 (8 weeks) and 5 chemical pregnancies
Hope 07/22/2012@4w1d, Konnor 11/24/2012@3w6d,"Emmy"1/15/2013@ 3w6d, Ronen 02/10/2013@3w5d, Joy 07/19/2013@3w6d, "Pea" 09/06/2013@ 3w3d

Me: Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, PCOS, Insulin resistant
175mcg Synthyroid, 1500mg Metformin
Him: MFI low count, low morphology, low motillity
Seeing MFI specialist/RE in 2015
Attempting vitamins for remainder of 2014
Weight loss goal #1 - 10% body weight 23.4lbs - accomplished July 13 2014
Reply With Quote
  #14  
November 8th, 2011, 03:30 PM
HappyHippy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pavia, Italy
Posts: 5,959
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Tithen~ View Post
Really? Wow. yeah this woman is going a little overboard.

Wouldn't the reenactment be considered public indecency?

I remember how disgusted people where when there was the sculpture of Britney Spears giving birth. Sculptures are at least art! Acting is an art, living life is NOT art.
If it was a reinactment, then that was acting. I don't know if she actually had sex on stage or not, but I do know that there a PLENTY of plays that actually have sex on stage. Many plays are about real life. It's all still art. I don't see why people have a problem with it. There are also plays that have some of the actual real life people in them, even movies. I guess that isn't then since it was a real life event.

There are plenty of sculptures that are nudity or have to do with birth. I think people had a problem with it because it was Brittney, not because it was just some random sculpture of no one.
__________________
Mama to G, L & twins F & M
Started off 2013 homebirthing suprise twins Fia Celesta & Maddalena Isabella
Reply With Quote
  #15  
November 8th, 2011, 07:26 PM
K.A.T's Avatar Enjoying her Sticky Bun
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NYC
Posts: 13,499
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffycheeks View Post
How is that downplaying birth? Every person on this earth was birthed, that's a fact. I don't think birth is just a means to an end, but I don't think it is art. Sure, those other things you listed have been done by tons of people, but does that make them gallery worthy? Usually, something has to be really amazing or unique to be gallery worthy. I'm not going to pay money to a gallery to view someone's live birth anymore than I'm going to pay to see someone's tramp stamp. There are thousands of live births on the internet, are they all art?
And I have such a lovely tramp stamp. Now you've gone and hurt my feelers.
__________________

❤ Big Thanks to Vicki, trishosaurus, & Shortcake for the great siggies of my kids! ❤
Liz (36) Kev (35)
Tiana (16) Doni (14) Lil Kev (8) Ethan 7/23/12 Lil Roo 10/29/11



Reply With Quote
  #16  
November 9th, 2011, 04:52 AM
LindseyE117's Avatar Wookie's Girl
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,741
There is a lot of "art" that I personally do not consider art. Performance art is one of those. In fact, I just took an college art class last semester as a requirement for my degree, and there are a lot of artists who do or make stupid things and call them art. One performance artist had 2 nude people stand in a crowded entrance to a building and made people pass through them by brushing up against them. It was some form of expression or something or another. I find it strange, but not art. There are also galleries that just have plain painted walls with strobe lights, and used toilet seats nailed to a wall. Not art to me, but I guess to some.

As for this woman, she is a performance artist. She likes to act out things and call it art. She did reanact her birth from her mother, losing her virginity in the back of a blue Plymonth, and her grandfather's funeral. All this before she decided to give birth in front of a crowd. As for calling any of that art, I personally do not think it is. Yes birth is a beautiful thing, and so is the conception, but should you consider either art? In my opinion no, but because people have different tastes there will be some who do. Also the fact that only 20 people showed up to a gallery in a huge city pretty much shows that not too many people felt it was art also.
__________________

Thank you Shortcake for my beautiful siggy!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
November 10th, 2011, 03:19 PM
ka-chow's Avatar back again, again
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 258
Anything can be art. Of course its art. She's odd because she literally has put her entire life on display with all the things she has done, but thats not wrong.

I think the lady who wrote THAT particular article is an idiot though. I know TONS of women who would LOVE to watch a birth and be part of it, and do not think its gross or disgusting, or had all the horrible reactions she did in having her children. I think birth is beautiful. Not the idea, the ACTUAL BIRTH, and believe me, I am not even close to the only one.
__________________
Don't let my post count fool you. I had over 11,000 posts before I took a hiatus from JM for a couple years, and while I'm back a little, I do not post like I used to. Life is just too chaotic.

Reply With Quote
  #18  
November 10th, 2011, 04:02 PM
foxfire_ga79
Guest
Posts: n/a
While I don't find birth disgusting, I really think this woman is just an exhibitionist and wants to call it "art."
I personally feel that art is something that requires a talent, not something that just anybody can do. I can draw a smily face, but it's not going to be hung up next to the Mona Lisa.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
November 10th, 2011, 04:41 PM
Frackel's Avatar DOh!
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: In my house :p
Posts: 1,286
Many don't believe what I do for a living, is art. It very much is.
It may not be on par with something you'd find in a famous art museum. It may not be something other people like, or even have any sort of interest in. But that doesn't change the fact that it is indeed art.

I say, whatever tickles your pickle. I won't claim another person's work as not being art simply because I don't like it. I've learned over the years that the term "art" is really subjective and up to interpretation by all. There isn't really a majority vote or popular opinion on just about anything in that category.
I personally do not like a LOT of "art" I see, but my not liking it doesn't change what it is.
Performance art is still art, even if the one performing is a few fries short of a happy meal (in your-general-opinion of course), or simply an attention ho.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #20  
November 10th, 2011, 04:52 PM
foxfire_ga79
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frackel View Post
Many don't believe what I do for a living, is art. It very much is.
It may not be on par with something you'd find in a famous art museum. It may not be something other people like, or even have any sort of interest in. But that doesn't change the fact that it is indeed art.

I say, whatever tickles your pickle. I won't claim another person's work as not being art simply because I don't like it. I've learned over the years that the term "art" is really subjective and up to interpretation by all. There isn't really a majority vote or popular opinion on just about anything in that category.
I personally do not like a LOT of "art" I see, but my not liking it doesn't change what it is.
Performance art is still art, even if the one performing is a few fries short of a happy meal (in your-general-opinion of course), or simply an attention ho.

What do you do? I'll tell you if it's art or not.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Topic Tools Search this Topic
Search this Topic:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:35 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0