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I mean we can argue "what if's" all day, but the facts are that formula has caused illnesses because of being contaminated.
What in the world is wrong with saying that. In fact, I would be highly upset if a product that is supposed to be safe wasn't and I was unknowingly exposing my child to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSLynn
^ I sure as heck was taught about proper handwashing when my LC was helping me with BF'ing! For sure!
What are you contaminating breastmilk with if your hands aren't washed? Germs? Germs are everywhere and I am sure most people keep clean hands while dealing with babies anyway.
I have never even heard it brought up before. It's alarmist to use that as a reason breastmilk could be contaminated.
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Last edited by *Jillian*; January 2nd, 2012 at 01:15 PM.
How about a woman just doesn't FEEL like it? She has that right. Her choice doesn't make her bad or lazy (You DID in fact imply some things in earlier posts, don't even play like you aren't being holier-than-thou about it). She's not "purposely" trying to harm her child.
How about a woman who adopts. Technically, she could induce breastmilk, but should she feel pressured to do it? FF moms get a lot of flak and so do BF moms. I have been BOTH and still somehow. my kids are alive/well and not contaminated. I have always maintained sanitary techniques whether physically putting to my breast, pumping or bottlefeeding. Not washing your hands has been PROVEN to cause many illnesses. Breastfeeding isn't immune to those same things. People coming out of the bathroom not washing their hands then feed their baby isn't going to be pretty gross? What about you making a chicken breast and your baby starts to cry...you merely wipe your hands...you've just contaminated yourself and your baby. That's not alarmist...that's factual! Handwashing is the #1 way to prevent contamination. Standard precautions (you can look that one up).
Maybe I'm a germophobe...PROUD of it too!
__________________ Lynn
Mom to many
2nd time surrogate & pregnant
Last edited by GSLynn; January 2nd, 2012 at 01:18 PM.
^ I sure as heck was taught about proper handwashing when my LC was helping me with BF'ing! For sure!
I learned proper handwashing from my kindergarten teacher or mother, I'm sure. This isn't knowledge that anyone with half a brain needs in order to keep their babies safe. Breastmilk wouldn't be contaminated...the outside sources would be. Bottom line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSLynn
How about a woman just doesn't FEEL like it? She has that right. Her choice doesn't make her bad or lazy (You DID in fact imply some things in earlier posts, don't even play like you aren't being holier-than-thou about it). She's not "purposely" trying to harm her child.
How about a woman who adopts. Technically, she could induce breastmilk, but should she feel pressured to do it? FF moms get a lot of flak and so do BF moms. I have been BOTH and still somehow. my kids are alive/well and not contaminated. I have always maintained sanitary techniques whether physically putting to my breast, pumping or bottlefeeding.
Who doesn't? I'm confused as to what you are debating here? She said it was good to at least try to breastfeed and recognizes reasons why people don't.
You are beating a dead horse because everyone sees there are women that can't for whatever reason. Can't and Won't are two different things. One is a choice and one isn't.
How about a woman just doesn't FEEL like it? She has that right. Her choice doesn't make her bad or lazy (You DID in fact imply some things in earlier posts, don't even play like you aren't being holier-than-thou about it). She's not "purposely" trying to harm her child.
How about a woman who adopts. Technically, she could induce breastmilk, but should she feel pressured to do it? FF moms get a lot of flak and so do BF moms. I have been BOTH and still somehow. my kids are alive/well and not contaminated. I have always maintained sanitary techniques whether physically putting to my breast, pumping or bottlefeeding.
If you're talking about my abuse comment, I straight out said I didn't want to get into it BECAUSE it would come off that way. I don't DO holier-than-thou. I just don't understand certain choices. We ALL think our own choices or the best or we wouldn't make them.
I have to say that I never worried about contaminating breast milk when I was breastfeeding my babies. I didn't always wash my hands either. When they cried, I picked them up(if I wasn't holding them already), sat down, and nursed them. If I had washed my hands before every nursing session, my fingers would have fallen off in the first month.
__________________
Tammy, Mom to
Abby (19), Kacie (13), Chase (11), & Jacob (7)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "...They're supposed to make you miserable! That's why they're family!" ~ Bobby ~ Supernatural
Breastmilk itself, when nursing, is not likely to get contaminated by not washing hands or not not changing nursing pads. It could when expressing, but that is being contaminated by not using proper safe handling techniques. Thrush can happen when you're actually nursing. It doesn't normally happen because you don't wash your hands though. It happens most commonly when a woman has a vaginal yeast infection, is on medications or steroids. If the mom and child get thrush you still nurse through it. Both have to take medications to treat it. Care For Candida - Yeast Infections or Thrush | Breastfeeding Basics
Masititis is also a known infection. Not normally caused by contamination. Can be caused by allergies, plugged duct, other infections. That is another thing you breastfeed through. kellymom.com :: Plugged Ducts and Mastitis In both cases harm to the child is unlikely. With thrush the child may have rashes but it's not normally anymore uncomfortable then a diaper rash.
Other than that thrush, masititis, plugged duct, etc there isn't any real complications that cause concern for mother or child. Unless the child is allergic to human milk, which is rare. Also if the mother is using drugs, drinking too much alcohol etc there can be problems. But that isn't an issue with contamination, that is an issue of common sense and mother caused problems. The enviromental contamination concern has already been linked to up above, so I won't touch on that.
__________________
Mama to G, L & twins F & M
Started off 2013 homebirthing suprise twins Fia Celesta & Maddalena Isabella
I have to say that I never worried about contaminating breast milk when I was breastfeeding my babies. I didn't always wash my hands either. When they cried, I picked them up(if I wasn't holding them already), sat down, and nursed them. If I had washed my hands before every nursing session, my fingers would have fallen off in the first month.
For sure! Cracked and fallen right off!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSLynn
And the "won't " is her judging someone based on how they FEED a baby! Ridiculous.
You also make judgments of many different parenting choices in debates. It happens from time to time when people disagree.
That's an alarmist attitude that not one breastfeeding book or information source makes you worry about. Not washing hands? For breastfeeding?
And you are talking about pumping, which is an awesome way to give a baby breastmilk too, but it isn't what I'm talking about at all. Human error causes these things. You are saying that this stuff can be prevented, but if you go buy formula the choice of keeping it contaminate free is out of your hands.
I have never in my 33 years heard of breastmilk hurting a baby unless there were drugs mixed in with it. If you have other sources please provide them.
Name an instance where a baby has been harmed by an environmental contaminate.
I've rarely washed my hands prior to BFing. And washing your hands too much can cause problems. I doubt many people wash their hands prior to making a bottle of formula. Especially when they are at the park or out shopping. I've seen plenty of people at the indoor park fix a bottle of formula, and none of them washed their hands prior to it not even with the little bottle of purex or whatever that stuff is called.
__________________
Mama to G, L & twins F & M
Started off 2013 homebirthing suprise twins Fia Celesta & Maddalena Isabella
The last two aren't the most realistic but they do transfer in the case where a mother is exposed to it / has it.
Article on the affects on organic pollutants on breast milk and the infants: Medscape: Medscape Access
Any cases of infants being harmed? I couldn't find a single one. Some of those are lifestyle choices and obviously preventable.
From one of your sources:
Quote:
But Toxins Are Not Good Are They?
No they are not and breastfeeding helps to diminish their bad effects.
Here are some facts:
Toxins increase the risk of developing some cancers. True, and the evidence shows that breastfeeding babies have a lower risk of some cancers than artificially fed babies.
Toxins may interfere with neurological function and learning abilities. True, and the evidence shows that children who were breastfed do better on neurological and intelligence tests than artificially fed children, and the longer they are breastfed, the better they do.
Toxins may interfere with immunity. True, and the evidence shows that infants who are breastfed have better and more mature immunity than artificially fed infants, and that this better immunity carries on much longer than the length of time the infant or child is breastfed.
Any cases of infants being harmed? I couldn't find a single one. Some of those are lifestyle choices and obviously preventable.
From one of your sources:
Nicotine harms, caffeine harms, flame retardants harm, HIV and Hep C (though hard to determine how the child gets it) harm the child, pesticides and herbicides harm the child. I'm all for breastfeeding and formula feeding, I don't really care either way - I was just giving you some examples of what transfer into BM and that they can be harmful to the infant.
Nicotine harms, caffeine harms, flame retardants harm, HIV and Hep C (though hard to determine how the child gets it) harm the child, pesticides and herbicides harm the child. I'm all for breastfeeding and formula feeding, I don't really care either way - I was just giving you some examples of what transfer into BM and that they can be harmful to the infant.
I only was interested in breastmilk harming a child when the mother was unaware. That's how the formula companies harmed children, by selling a contaminated product to unaware parents.
Things a person knowingly exposes their child to isn't really fair to judge all breastmilk by. That's what was being done.
I only was interested in breastmilk harming a child when the mother was unaware. That's how the formula companies harmed children, by selling a contaminated product to unaware parents.
Things a person knowingly exposes their child to isn't really fair to judge all breastmilk by. That's what was being done.
Its not like legit formula companies are knowingly and intentionally selling contaminated formula to kill millions of babies though.
Recalls are part of life. It happens with all foods at one point or another, even non processed.
I don't think anyone is saying don't BF because of the risk of contamination, just that its importent to know it can happen so you can try to prevent it.
Its not like legit formula companies are knowingly and intentionally selling contaminated formula to kill millions of babies though.
Recalls are part of life. It happens with all foods at one point or another, even non processed.
I don't think anyone is saying don't BF because of the risk of contamination, just that its importent to know it can happen so you can try to prevent it.
I never argued against any of those points. Not a single time. And if you read what I was responding to in what Lynn said, you will see what I was trying to say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KimberlyD0
Its not like legit formula companies are knowingly and intentionally selling contaminated formula to kill millions of babies though.
Recalls are part of life. It happens with all foods at one point or another, even non processed.
I don't think anyone is saying don't BF because of the risk of contamination, just that its importent to know it can happen so you can try to prevent it.
And really I don't' care if it is an accident. If there were more careful practices being used, babies might not be sick or dead from the "oops" moments formula companies have. I don't think you can compare breastmilk's safety to formula IN THAT RESPECT.
I only was interested in breastmilk harming a child when the mother was unaware. That's how the formula companies harmed children, by selling a contaminated product to unaware parents.
Things a person knowingly exposes their child to isn't really fair to judge all breastmilk by. That's what was being done.
Women may not know the nicotine or caffeine or alcohol or medication pass into their BM, it all depends on the level of education they have on BM and what transfers into it. I'm sure women in 3rd world countries are unknowingly exposing their children to the environmental contaminants, pesticides, herbicides, HIV or Hep C that they have. To be fair to the formula companies, I don't think they knowingly contaminated the formula and then put it on the market. The reality is, anything we put in our bodies, no matter our age or our caution, can be contaminated.
Women may not know the nicotine or caffeine or alcohol or medication pass into their BM, it all depends on the level of education they have on BM and what transfers into it. I'm sure women in 3rd world countries are unknowingly exposing their children to the environmental contaminants, pesticides, herbicides, HIV or Hep C that they have. To be fair to the formula companies, I don't think they knowingly contaminated the formula and then put it on the market. The reality is, anything we put in our bodies, no matter our age or our caution, can be contaminated.
And back to the original point of the debate!! Breastfeeding education has never hurt anyone.
And I never said formula companies knowingly did anything. That's irrelevant to me because the harm was done and the parents had no control in the situation. Not the case with most breastfeeding mothers. I'd wager that most of us know that what we put in our bodies has an impact on our milk.
