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  #1  
December 29th, 2011, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
A California law will add gays and lesbians and people with disabilities to the list of social and ethnic groups whose contributions must be taught in history lessons in public schools. The law also bans teaching materials that reflect poorly on gays or particular religions.

Opponents have filed five potential initiatives to repeal the requirement outright or let parents remove their children while gays' contributions are being taught.
Abortion, immigration changes among new 2012 laws - Yahoo! News

Maybe I'm just being "insensitive", but I fail to see how someone's sexual orientation had that big of an effect on how they impacted history. I could see if they were teaching on the struggle to get gay marriage legalized, since orientation would be relevant. I'm going to dig a little deeper and see if I can find someone that explains it a little more.

The bolded worries me though. It's censorship. Omitting things that may trouble people. It seems they are forgetting that history IS troubling. This may be overreaching, but are they going to not teach about slavery or the Holocaust next?

Thoughts? Rebuttals?
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  #2  
December 29th, 2011, 08:29 AM
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I don't think things should be censored like that, but I do think it's important to talk about homosexuality and the history of things. There have been lots of hatecrimes commited against homosexuals that we can't just over look. This society hasn't been good to gays and we still have a long way to go. I also think it would be nice for kids to learn about it to maybe help those who are gay to not be so afraid and those who are straight to treat gays with the same respect as anyone else.
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  #3  
December 29th, 2011, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linzie View Post
Abortion, immigration changes among new 2012 laws - Yahoo! News

Maybe I'm just being "insensitive", but I fail to see how someone's sexual orientation had that big of an effect on how they impacted history. I could see if they were teaching on the struggle to get gay marriage legalized, since orientation would be relevant. I'm going to dig a little deeper and see if I can find someone that explains it a little more.

The bolded worries me though. It's censorship. Omitting things that may trouble people. It seems they are forgetting that history IS troubling. This may be overreaching, but are they going to not teach about slavery or the Holocaust next?

Thoughts? Rebuttals?
No, no rebuttal here, I totally agree with you. I read this yesterday and was trying to think of how to frame it without seeming like a bigot. As for the stuff you bolded, I don't see how that is not censorship either. What other group has hat kind of protection. I agree that hate crimes against gays are horrific and need to stop, but there are hate crimes against blacks and other minorities as well, and there is no legislation like this that includes them.
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  #4  
December 29th, 2011, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHippy View Post
I don't think things should be censored like that, but I do think it's important to talk about homosexuality and the history of things. There have been lots of hatecrimes commited against homosexuals that we can't just over look. This society hasn't been good to gays and we still have a long way to go. I also think it would be nice for kids to learn about it to maybe help those who are gay to not be so afraid and those who are straight to treat gays with the same respect as anyone else.
I can see that, teaching the history of homosexuality becoming mainstream and, for the most part, ok with most of the world, THAT is relevant to sexual orientation. But I don't see the point, if this is what the law is really talking about, teaching kids "Hey, this guy invented the printing press, and he was GAY!" (example only, i don't know if he was gay or not) How would being gay help him invent the printing press? It's an extra tidbit of information that is needless. Like then going on about how we wanted his breakfast, since that is how he likes things as well...


Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffycheeks View Post
No, no rebuttal here, I totally agree with you. I read this yesterday and was trying to think of how to frame it without seeming like a bigot. As for the stuff you bolded, I don't see how that is not censorship either. What other group has hat kind of protection. I agree that hate crimes against gays are horrific and need to stop, but there are hate crimes against blacks and other minorities as well, and there is no legislation like this that includes them.
I can't tell you how long it took me to phrase my OP. I didn't want to sound like a bigot either, but I still wanted to express my feeling of "...***..."
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  #5  
December 29th, 2011, 09:24 AM
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Probably because some people see gays as worthless and/or unequal, and teaching that gays do contribute to society and are just like a straight person does help.
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  #6  
December 29th, 2011, 09:27 AM
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The law also bans teaching materials that reflect poorly on gays or particular religions.
Particular religions? Does this mean the public school system can use teaching materials that reflect poorly on some religions?
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  #7  
December 29th, 2011, 09:31 AM
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I think the point of the bolded statements isn't to not teach about hate crimes but to prevent people for teaching statements like "the problem with this country is the gays" and cr@p like that. I didn't read it as a way to not represent their struggles for equality and acceptance.

I think the point of all this is to show that people of all races, religions and sexual orientation have made serious contributions to our country. In the past, only the accomplishments of white males and a couple of women have ended up in the history books.
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  #8  
December 29th, 2011, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My2miracles View Post
I think the point of the bolded statements isn't to not teach about hate crimes but to prevent people for teaching statements like "the problem with this country is the gays" and cr@p like that. I didn't read it as a way to not represent their struggles for equality and acceptance.

I think the point of all this is to show that people of all races, religions and sexual orientation have made serious contributions to our country. In the past, only the accomplishments of white males and a couple of women have ended up in the history books.
I think I have to agree with Kris on this one.


I didn't see the OP bolded as censorship.. if anything it's telling them they cannot teach that a particular religion is bad (I'm thinking Muslim and Scientology tbh, just from headlines from the last 5 years about both religions), or that gay people are bad.... All it really does is censor teachers from teaching their opinions vs teaching facts. So a homophobic teacher can't teach that gay people don't contribute (when they do), and someone who's very anti-Muslim can't teach that Muslims are bad people (because they're not).

Teachers are there to teach facts.. not opinions. They're welcome to their own, but spreading hate (and sometimes lies) to children in class isn't ok.
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  #9  
December 29th, 2011, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Linzie View Post
I can see that, teaching the history of homosexuality becoming mainstream and, for the most part, ok with most of the world, THAT is relevant to sexual orientation. But I don't see the point, if this is what the law is really talking about, teaching kids "Hey, this guy invented the printing press, and he was GAY!" (example only, i don't know if he was gay or not) How would being gay help him invent the printing press? It's an extra tidbit of information that is needless. Like then going on about how we wanted his breakfast, since that is how he likes things as well...
Probably for the same reason the heterosexual partners/spouses are mentioned when speaking of other historical figures regardless of the fact that they themselves were not history makers. Spouses (or those who fill those roles but are not allowed to call themselves spouses because of backwards US laws) generally play a huge supporting role in history makers lives and to paint the whole picture of the person should be included.

For the record Coster's wife is mentioned in texts of him as well as the facts the Guttenberg though never married but there was controversy surrounding him leaving a fiancee. Neither of these added to these men essentially creating movable type yet it is taught along side other facts about the their lives.
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  #10  
December 29th, 2011, 01:12 PM
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I'm not so sure about the law that bans teaching materials that reflect poorly on gays or particular religions. What does that exactly mean? They can no longer say that during the holocaust jews and gays were targeted BECAUSE they were jews and gay?
I don't think they should change anything. What if back in the day no one respected said printing press guy because he WAS gay, but he rose above that to make something totally relevant to history anyway? And maybe he was only smart when he ate waffles for breakfast.
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  #11  
December 29th, 2011, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Repti.Mom View Post
I'm not so sure about the law that bans teaching materials that reflect poorly on gays or particular religions. What does that exactly mean? They can no longer say that during the holocaust jews and gays were targeted BECAUSE they were jews and gay?
I don't think they should change anything. What if back in the day no one respected said printing press guy because he WAS gay, but he rose above that to make something totally relevant to history anyway? And maybe he was only smart when he ate waffles for breakfast.
See DH and I took that the other way.

examples:

Saying the Nazi's were bad for what they did during the Holocaust is a truth.

Saying the Muslim's extremists flew planes into the towers in New York city there for all Muslims are terrorist is NOT a truth.

I mean, The Crusades happened... in the name of God... but does that make all Christians bad?
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  #12  
December 29th, 2011, 11:21 PM
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Its California, I wouldnt expect any less.
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  #13  
December 29th, 2011, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by angelsailor288 View Post
Its California, I wouldnt expect any less.
I'm guessing you mean this as a negative connotation? As in, those gay loving hippy freaks on the west coast that are forced to learn gay history and proper use of apostrophes in school?
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  #14  
December 30th, 2011, 01:58 PM
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No, but they have ridiculous laws in Cali. I live in NY after all, where gay marriage is legal, so I'd guess were hippy freaks here too? Your words not mine. :\
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  #15  
January 1st, 2012, 11:14 AM
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I think too much emphasis is being put on people just because they are supposedly different. Being gay has been around since the beginning of time. Many people good/bad/ugly have been a part of history. People jsut have to learn that people are people and are to be treated like people should be. Plain and simple. If people learned that years ago, people wouldn't be acting like fools about these things now. Doesn't matter gay/straight/bi/trans, black, white or green, rich or poor, famous or not famous, these things are titles people throughout history have given one another. Strip out the titles and see people for who they are, not what they do in a bedroom, what color they are or how much money they have.
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  #16  
January 1st, 2012, 12:16 PM
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A state making gay marriage legal makes it into the hippy freak category? Lovely!

She meant separate categories
A. Gay loving
B. Hippy freaks

Not that supporting gay marriage or gay rights MADE them hippy freaks.
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  #17  
January 3rd, 2012, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by GSLynn View Post
I think too much emphasis is being put on people just because they are supposedly different. Being gay has been around since the beginning of time. Many people good/bad/ugly have been a part of history. People jsut have to learn that people are people and are to be treated like people should be. Plain and simple. If people learned that years ago, people wouldn't be acting like fools about these things now. Doesn't matter gay/straight/bi/trans, black, white or green, rich or poor, famous or not famous, these things are titles people throughout history have given one another. Strip out the titles and see people for who they are, not what they do in a bedroom, what color they are or how much money they have.
I completely agree with this ^^
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