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Texas Police kill 8th grader carring pellet gun


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  #1  
January 5th, 2012, 01:55 PM
*Leslie*'s Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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This story is just incredibly sad all around.
Texas police kill 8th-grader carrying pellet gun - Yahoo! News

Excessive or no?
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  #2  
January 5th, 2012, 02:39 PM
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It is a sad story all the way around. However, I do think the police followed protocol and should be cleared of any wrong-doing since everyone thought it was a handgun. They already have to live with the fact that they killed a kid.

I do not think it was excessive force because he was pointing what appeared to be a handgun at the police and refused to put it down. I wonder if it was suicide by cop? Why else would someone do that?
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  #3  
January 5th, 2012, 03:26 PM
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i think this is one of those stories I'd rather hear that the cops tasered him and his family was pissed off.

I wont comment one excessive or not. I do think if protocol was used (giving him a chance to drop it and surrender etc..) then it was necessary. I'm not sure it was necessary to shoot him twice (and once in the head? I mean really?). I do wish that sometimes police would shoot to incapacitate rather than kill. Not saying that was possible in this case, but I really wish that in a lot of cases that was tried first.
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  #4  
January 5th, 2012, 03:46 PM
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While not related to this case, this article briefly discusses "shoot to kill" and "shoot to stop" policies.

Proposal to change shoot to kill policy for cops in NYC | 7online.com
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  #5  
January 5th, 2012, 04:25 PM
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Very sad. I really can't give an answer. On the one hand he should've dropped the pellet gun when ordered to do so. On the other hand, did they have to shoot him in the head? I don't know.
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  #6  
January 5th, 2012, 04:42 PM
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There are different alternatives. He was in a hallway they have pepper spray cans they can use and tear gas that would have gagged the child enough to make him not be stable to where they could have easily detained him. They also have bean bag guns that will drop a grown man to his knees.

This is absolutely inappropriate. This child obviously needed help. How long do hostage negotiators spend working out deals? This child didn't have someone else hostage, he was holding himself hostage. More should have been done. Or less.. I should say..
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  #7  
January 5th, 2012, 04:46 PM
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I think I still need to hear more before I make a decision. The news reports yesterday here in tx were that they kid engaged the cops. Idk if that meant he pointed the gun like he was going to shoot or if he popped off shots. Again... still need to hear more on the details... IF that was the case- there is no way the police would react with a taser, pepper spray or smoke. No way. someone is shooting at your or swings up a gun to shoot at you - your training kicks in and it's double tap. As for shooting the kid in the head- cops are human too and even with the best training your bullet doesnt always end up where you point it at. This is extremely sad as I cannot imagine these officeers ever being the same mentally after having shot and killed a little boy. I feel for everyone involved. I just hope publicity seeking legislators dont rush to create an unnecessary law BEFORE the facts get a chance to come out in this case.
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  #8  
January 5th, 2012, 04:53 PM
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That pellet gun looks very much like a real gun to me, the kid had previously punched someone for no apparent reason, and he refused to give up the weapon when police asked him to.

I imagine things like bean bag guns and etc aren't exactly very handy, when you're called to an emergency situation - you aren't going to be like, "Oh hey, hold on, it's at an elementary school, let me get the bean bag gun" - you just go. Unless other facts emerge, I don't see anything wrong with what the cops did. There were other kids at risk, and the kid had (what they thought) was a handgun - even if there weren't other kids in the hallway, kids could come out of classrooms at any time, the kid could barge into a classroom at any time to shoot someone, or he could have shot a cop - not to mention he was not following directives.
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  #9  
January 5th, 2012, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glasscandie View Post
That pellet gun looks very much like a real gun to me, the kid had previously punched someone for no apparent reason, and he refused to give up the weapon when police asked him to.

I imagine things like bean bag guns and etc aren't exactly very handy, when you're called to an emergency situation - you aren't going to be like, "Oh hey, hold on, it's at an elementary school, let me get the bean bag gun" - you just go. Unless other facts emerge, I don't see anything wrong with what the cops did. There were other kids at risk, and the kid had (what they thought) was a handgun - even if there weren't other kids in the hallway, kids could come out of classrooms at any time, the kid could barge into a classroom at any time to shoot someone, or he could have shot a cop - not to mention he was not following directives.
ITA...this is an incredibly sad situation, but that looked exactly like a gun to me so i'm not going to blame cops standing at some distance for not realizing it wasn't....and on the assumption it was real they took the same action they would have it was anyone pointing a gun at them.
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  #10  
January 5th, 2012, 05:27 PM
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I really don't know. I just know that it's sad all around. I feel like razzle and need to hear more.
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  #11  
January 5th, 2012, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Interim Police Chief Orlando Rodriguez said the teen was pointing the weapon at officers and "had plenty of opportunities to lower the gun and listen to the officers' orders, and he didn't want to."
I don't think officiers are going to locate a taser or what-have-you under these circumstances, nor should they be expected to do so.
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  #12  
January 5th, 2012, 06:44 PM
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That kid was old enough to know what would happen if you pointed a weapon at a cop. I wasn't there so I can't really comment if they could have used a taser or something else.
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  #13  
January 5th, 2012, 06:52 PM
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It to me sounds like a suicide by cop. I need more details to be sure but that is what it sounds like to me.
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  #14  
January 5th, 2012, 09:12 PM
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He pointed a gun at police officers. Those police officers would have had their rear ends handed to them, along with pink slips if that kid had gotten into a classroom and shot a bunch of other kids / staff. The police did what they had to do to protect themselves and the other kids / people within the school. He was old enough to know what he was doing. I feel bad for the officers who will have to live the rest of their lives knowing they took the life of a teenager because they had no other choice. As far as they were concerned, they had given him ample opportunity to put the gun down and he pointed what they had to assume was a loaded gun at them. They had no other choice but to protect themselves. I absolutely do not think they did anything wrong.
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  #15  
January 6th, 2012, 03:14 AM
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Shooting him to kill was wrong, shooting him to detain is/was not.
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  #16  
January 6th, 2012, 03:50 AM
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According to this article, he was not shot in the back of the head but received a laceration to the head when he fell.

After Texas school shooting, many questions loom - Times Union
Quote:
He said the boy was shot twice in the torso. Asked about the parents' suggestion that there had been a shot to the back of the head, Rodriguez said, "It's a laceration as a result of the fall."
The Brownsville Herald, which reviewed the report, confirmed the preliminary finding that the boy died of two gunshot wounds, one to the chest and one to the abdomen. The report, signed by pathologist Elizabeth J. Miller, noted Gonzalez had a laceration to the right side of the head consistent with a fall.


Quote:
Authorities also released a 911 recording from Cummings Middle School. The assistant principal on the phone first says a student in the hall has a gun, then reports that he is drawing the weapon and finally that he is running down the hall.
On the recording, police can be heard yelling: "Put the gun down! Put it on the floor!" In the background, someone else yells, "He's saying that he is willing to die."
Before police arrived, school administrators had urged Jaime to give up the gun. When officers got to the school, the boy was waiting for them, Rodriguez said.
Moments before he was killed, Jaime began to run down a hallway, but again faced officers. Police fired down the hallway — a distance that made a stun gun or other methods impractical, Rodriguez said.
If the situation had involved hostages or a gunman barricaded in a room, police might have tried negotiations. But instead, Rodriguez stressed, this was an armed student roaming the halls of a school.



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  #17  
January 6th, 2012, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hey... Where's Perry? View Post
Shooting him to kill was wrong, shooting him to detain is/was not.
This. I also feel like we need more information, and I just don't understand why if he was pointing the gun at them they couldn' t have tried to shoot it out of his hand. I guess it's easier said than done, but still very sad.
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  #18  
January 6th, 2012, 04:34 AM
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^^ Have you ever shot a gun!!? How easy do you think it is to shoot the gun out of the hand of a person that is a moving target!??

Tammyjh thx for providing more details. Yep- the injuries described seem to be standard for what police officers are taught all over the world... double tap center mass. I was surprised when I had heard reports of a shot to the head because of how difficult that is to do on a suspect that is not stationary much less 2. My only thought would have been that it was a missed shot. Any of you that might have taken a gun or CW class or have family that is law enforcement will recognize that you're taught to aim for center mass.
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  #19  
January 6th, 2012, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammyjh View Post
According to this article, he was not shot in the back of the head but received a laceration to the head when he fell.

After Texas school shooting, many questions loom - Times Union

[/color][/left]
And there you have it.

And shoot the gun from his hand? This isn't a movie.
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  #20  
January 6th, 2012, 06:22 AM
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WOW OK so the cops had no other choice. It's still sad. But they did the right thing.
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