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Transgenders banned from boarding Planes in Canada....


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  #1  
January 30th, 2012, 10:10 PM
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chrismilloy.ca » Transgender People are Completely Banned From Boarding Airplanes in Canada




I'm a bit torn on this one myself. I'm female, my ID says I'm female, my passport, female... but if I show up at an airport looking like a guy right down to a full beard and chest hair... I'd almost expect to have some issues getting on the plane....Same goes if my ID is male and I show up looking very female (like the lady in the picture in the article, and yes I know it's a guy)

I dislike that there are no exceptions to the rules for this one.... if you really must fly, obtaining a doctors note (this is Canada, so it'd cost you like $10 probably) explaining why your ID and physical appearance do not match, should be allowed.


In the US, you do NOT have to match your gender marker to fly, but you can expect some hassles about it from TSA.


But I'm quite surprised that this is a problem in Canada and not the USA. With all the new security requirements and such, this seems like it would be an issue, not looking like your ID photo (gender wise)
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  #2  
January 31st, 2012, 02:22 AM
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Interesting issue.

But I do have to wonder, if someone identifies themselves as a female(or male, even), and to be not so specific here...dresses the part and plays the part in public, why would they not update both their passport and ID?
That part I don't understand.

As for why it's a CA issue and not a US one, I can't relate to that. People in the US have issues all the time when they don't look like their ID. Of course plenty of others don't have issues too. But to think something like that could ONLY happen in CA is a bit weird. Maybe it happens often enough that it became an issue? I don't know, and to be honest I'm not real sure I want to know how often it happens that someone thought it needed to be on the law books (because I rarely understand most of those points of views, that's why I don't want to know how often it happens). But it seems to me there's a pretty simple solution, even if it's only temporary while someone decides to appeal this matter(or whatever it is someone is going to do, to make their disgust for this issue well known).

I do know transgendered people. I also know they have IDs that relate to whatever gender they identify as in public People need to SEE your ID matches you. If your ID does not match you, then you can expect it may cause issues. No matter where you live. We use our IDs as exactly that...identification. If the identification is false, or even seems false, folks in positions to do so, have every right to not only question, but refuse service.
Heck people can't use expired IDs, even if it's only a day. Why being so obviously outwardly a different gender than your ID states, wouldn't be an issue, somewhat boggles me. I find it odd that folks don't understand that part.
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  #3  
January 31st, 2012, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frackel View Post
Interesting issue.

But I do have to wonder, if someone identifies themselves as a female(or male, even), and to be not so specific here...dresses the part and plays the part in public, why would they not update both their passport and ID?
That part I don't understand.

As for why it's a CA issue and not a US one, I can't relate to that. People in the US have issues all the time when they don't look like their ID. Of course plenty of others don't have issues too. But to think something like that could ONLY happen in CA is a bit weird. Maybe it happens often enough that it became an issue? I don't know, and to be honest I'm not real sure I want to know how often it happens that someone thought it needed to be on the law books (because I rarely understand most of those points of views, that's why I don't want to know how often it happens). But it seems to me there's a pretty simple solution, even if it's only temporary while someone decides to appeal this matter(or whatever it is someone is going to do, to make their disgust for this issue well known).

I do know transgendered people. I also know they have IDs that relate to whatever gender they identify as in public People need to SEE your ID matches you. If your ID does not match you, then you can expect it may cause issues. No matter where you live. We use our IDs as exactly that...identification. If the identification is false, or even seems false, folks in positions to do so, have every right to not only question, but refuse service.
Heck people can't use expired IDs, even if it's only a day. Why being so obviously outwardly a different gender than your ID states, wouldn't be an issue, somewhat boggles me. I find it odd that folks don't understand that part.
has nothing to do with not understanding it. In Canada there seems to be two options. Live has your altered self for one year or have surgery to obtain paperwork stating your gender has changed. New Brunswick (the province next to the one I grew up in) requires you to have the surgery. So a male who wishes to be a female just can't go and do hormone injections, he has to finish the deal and have the parts removed too. Each province has its own requirements. And even if your ID shows you are a female, if you were born a male, your passport is issued in male until surgery.. more details in the link below.

Identification, Sex Marker and Passport Canada » Talia's Journey

This is a blog, but the person was communicating with Passport Canada regarding the issue. Passports in Canada are horrific to obtain unless you have a multitude of friends who have passports and have known you for a long time (we need someone to "vouch" for us.....), I'm honestly not surprised there is an even bigger run around if you don't fit into the category of "average joe"

I have a friend who's waiting for his surgery. He has to live as his altered for two years and under go a crazy regimine of testing (mental and emotional) before they will even BOOK the surgery, which can have a several year wait list. Oh.. and it's only done in a few places.. and most people would have to FLY to the surgery.

according to the article it has actually NEVER happened that they've been able to find. This rule just magically appeared on July 28th and someone found it during research.
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  #4  
January 31st, 2012, 01:23 PM
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The article writer is an idiot. I read the entire thing and she/he is completely blowing it out of proportion.
COULD it present to be a problem? Sure, it could. But it never has. SHOULD the law be re-written to be more specific? Of course it should, lots of laws should.
But this person is making a mountain out of a molehill...quite apparent from the responses.(anyone not agreeing with them "just doesn't understand", that's no way to have a conversation with someone, or a group of someones that is).

There are other stipulations within the same law that also apple to age. It's NOT just about transgendered people. That person simply focused on that ONE aspect, because it makes for better publicity, I suppose. There ARE ways for people who are transgendered to work within what regulations they have now(and no I am not in any way suggesting people should stop trying to get laws changed, or fixed, when needed). There are ways for things to be just peachy keen for them. The same as for folks who may not look the same age as both their ID and passport suggest. The same as for folks whose ethnicity doesn't seem to match.
Identifiable sex is simply part of your public ID, at the moment. Maybe if this person spent more time actually crusading to have the laws changed and the requirements for passports changed instead of loudly *****ing about who is trans-phobic and being discriminatory, more folks would take the words as more than just a giant temper tantrum.
Some of the replies bring about some very valid points. But this person pretty much kills any possible good "making this issue known" could have done with the blog by being a horse's *** about it.
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  #5  
February 3rd, 2012, 11:01 PM
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Accountability. I say it all the time. If you are going to change your appearance or your name or both that drastically, (who cares WHY, actually, it's just that you are DOING it) then go get a new ID card. Not higher math.
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  #6  
February 4th, 2012, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSLynn View Post
Accountability. I say it all the time. If you are going to change your appearance or your name or both that drastically, (who cares WHY, actually, it's just that you are DOING it) then go get a new ID card. Not higher math.
it's more to the point that in a lot of provinces you CAN'T change it prior to Surgery.

Legal Gender Change in Canada - T-Vox

On that list it looks like Ontario is the ONLY province that doesn't require you to undergo surgery, I couldn't find a few provinces, but NS also requires surgery. It can take years to get your surgery, as there are a lot of things that need to be done to assess you prior to even booking it. And you could have to go half way across the country for the operation.

As a country that legalized gay marriage, and markets itself as gblt friendly... it makes 0 sense as a law.

But, shouldn't be surprised... that's what happens when you elect a conservative government.
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  #7  
February 4th, 2012, 11:47 AM
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I don't think there is much disagreement on the fact that the law is written poorly. Lots of laws are though, and rarely ever get publicity.


I still don't understand why people don't have a problem with the rest of that particular law, though. It does NOT affect only transgendered people. It affects, or I should say it could affect far more than just them. The fact that they put provisions in, at least temporarily(I say this because I'm quite sure the law will be re-written at some point, like most, to be specific-who knows when though, lots of laws are crap these days) is a good thing. Someone who is transgender can still fly without any issues. They manage just fine. A proper medical note is all that is needed if you cannot get your passport changed. Big whoop, one little note.
What about the other people affected by this very same law, who also have to go that extra step? I don't see them *****ing. I don't see anyone standing up for them. It's quite likely that it will always be a problem for them too. Even when/if the law is re-written, those other people will likely always have to provide some sort of form letter stating why they do not match their id/passport. But they too, have the same provision. It's not a difficult concept. If you look nothing like your passport says you should(gender, race, age, etc..) then go the proper routes and you'll have no troubles-that includes medical documentation if you cannot change your passport. Forget the ID part for a moment. How friggen hard is it to get a proper medical document to go along with your passport? Come on now. Surgery is NOT required anywhere in Canada, just to get medical documentation. So there is absolutely no excuse.

The fact that NO ONE has actually been stopped from boarding a plane yet, ought to at least say something. I'm quite certain transgendered people fly in and out of Canada on a daily basis, somewhere. If it were actually a problem, it would have been one long before now. The person who wrote the article, as stated before, is a loon. Clearly making a mountain out of an anthill because it drums up readers for the blog. Even other transgendered people came in to reply only to be shot down by this person. Not even being willing to listen to people who are also affected by the law(and actually have personal experience), yet have had no issues tells me someone doesn't really want to know the success or failure of a law. There is no actual interest in the law itself, just someone looking for yet another reason to scream discrimination, but only for a small portion of the people affected, of course. The rest don't matter.

Of course when contacted the powers that be, in the airports, at the government, and with passport canada, will state they fully uphold the laws as written. That was one of this article writer's big beefs, as it were, because they said they would uphold it. Did this person expect them to say they won't? That's a bit of a stupid expectation.
That's like walking into a liquor store and asking the owner if he cards anyone who looks under 30. Umm, DUH, he's not going to open right up and say "nope, we don't really agree with the law we're bound to, so we don't card".
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  #8  
February 4th, 2012, 06:05 PM
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New airport screening regs raise questions for trans Canadians « Dented Blue Mercedes

But what if you aren't going through it medically? What if you cannot afford surgery (which isn't covered in all provinces)? What if you cannot afford to purchase all the hormone injections? Well, then you just live as your alter. Binding breasts and genitals, growing out your hair or cutting it off. Unless you're going about it medical wise, you're screwed. You can't get a document unless you're under the care of a doctor.

And the law could greatly affect everyone. If you undergo a drastic hair change (let's say you crop it all off and you look like a guy) and you die it orange... well, that's two of three and you could be hauled aside to go through a second processing (which pretty much equals missing your flight unless you have a three hour layover).

My friend says there are work arounds, but they can be expensive. Dress gender neutral, have long hair for your ID pictures and wear your hair back, little to no make up, don't wear prosthetics. So they have ways to get where they need to go. But they cannot be themselves under the new law, they have to travel a lie. It's not fair.

And there have been reports of people being hassled, just not refused entry to the plane.
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  #9  
February 4th, 2012, 07:23 PM
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DH told me it's about security measures. You need to either A) look like your ID or B) have a written expination by a Doctor/psychologist/other professional of why you do not look like your ID. The airports DH has worked at, none in Canada, have rules about passengers boarding planes about looking like their IDs. It is a safety measure to protect the Pilots, plane staff and the passengers. They aren't doing it to discriminate against anyone.

If someone isn't getting surgeries or anything of that nature done then they could still get a note from someone saying why they don't look like the picture on the ID. Or they could not bind their breasts that day and bind them once they get to where they're going. I know it sucks to not be who you are for a day, but it likely won't hurt you. On the flip side, letting people who don't look like their IDs board planes does pose a potential risk.
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  #10  
February 5th, 2012, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Tithen~ View Post
it's more to the point that in a lot of provinces you CAN'T change it prior to Surgery.

Legal Gender Change in Canada - T-Vox

On that list it looks like Ontario is the ONLY province that doesn't require you to undergo surgery, I couldn't find a few provinces, but NS also requires surgery. It can take years to get your surgery, as there are a lot of things that need to be done to assess you prior to even booking it. And you could have to go half way across the country for the operation.

As a country that legalized gay marriage, and markets itself as gblt friendly... it makes 0 sense as a law.

But, shouldn't be surprised... that's what happens when you elect a conservative government.
But that's not entirely true. Some people can look quite different on hormones. a friend of mine, who calls himself Sarah, has not gotten his surgery yet. He's on hormones. He looks much different than he did as a "guy". Heck, he's better looking than a lot of women are naturally being women! lol He will do the surgery in Trinidad, CO where so many of these surgeries are performed, to make a permanent change. He is one of the people who updated his drivers' license to reflect who he is "now". Yes, it still says "male" on it, but it shows him looking like a female. That's who he wants to be and he'll do that when he can afford it.
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  #11  
February 6th, 2012, 07:46 AM
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If you really need to fly there could be ways around it. How about you fly as yourself without dressing as the obvious opposite sex if you haven't had the surgery. Also, as suggested a note from the doctor explaining things would help too. IMO if you're going to say you're transgendered then you need to follow through with it. If that means getting the surgery or taking hormones, then find a way to pay for it. Save up money for it if you can't afford it. It's not that hard to save money for something that means a lot to you.
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