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Susan G Komen cuts funding to Planned Parenthood


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  #41  
February 5th, 2012, 09:51 AM
foxfire_ga79
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Originally Posted by HappyHippy View Post
Providing more BC doesn't mean more women will want it. Usually places like that operate on a demand and supply bases. So if women aren't seeking as much BC as previously, then they aren't going to keep as much BC on hand.

So I googled PP and abortions and most of what I saw was opinion pieces, not actual facts. Not all PPs do abortions, and I find it hard to believe that PP workers would push a mom into an abortion. It may have happened before at one place, but I doubt it's a common thing. Sounds more like a pro-life agenda.

Well you're obviously going to believe what you want to. You can't possibly expect the pro abortion crowd (I'm talking about the politicians and the people who get well paid for performing abortions, not individuals who are pro choice but don't think abortion is a good thing as has been stated in this thread) to actually admit that they are doing it for profit. They have to keep up the image that they care about women. So saying everything you found was with a pro life agenda, well duh.

And to the bolded, if women don't want and don't seek birth control, why should my tax or donation dollars pay for their friggin abortion!?!
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  #42  
February 5th, 2012, 10:08 AM
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Can I just say one more time, I don't understand how you can be prochoice but not be okay with one of the choices?!?! LOL. It baffles me. If my kid makes a bad choice, let's say between ummmm, choosing to do his homework or smoking pot and he chooses to smoke pot, I'm not going to say I am prochoice. I would be anti smoking pot and pro homework. People that are prochoice but don't agree with abortion makes me think they are prolife instead.
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  #43  
February 5th, 2012, 10:40 AM
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Well PP has horrific restrictions on who they can give birth control to. If you fill out the forms honestly, and you suffer from headaches or migraines with or with out aura.. you go from a dozen options to a small handful. Or none.

I couldn't get anything except depo (which I cannot use) and the mini pill (which isn't effective enough for me, because I know I would not take it at the exact same time each day as required). Why? Because I suffer from Migraines. Doesn't matter that I could prove that I'd been on and off the pill for 12 years (off when single, on when not), their restrictions say "if you have this or this, we cannot help you with what you want".

So first step there would be to be broader with their options.

I was told if I could get a detailed letter from the doctor who wrote my prescription stating a few key things they needed they could help me. So they wanted a $100 letter from my doctor, and another $50 pp visit, in addition to the $50 visit I'd already done... Not really appealing to the low income crowd. If I was to see a Dr down here for that letter, that $200 price would be much higher.
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  #44  
February 5th, 2012, 10:47 AM
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For me, its not about the abortions - its about the choice. I don't think the government has the right to tell a woman what to do with her body. So I am a pro-lifer who is also pro-choice. There is the middle ground and that is where I am.
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  #45  
February 5th, 2012, 01:45 PM
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I'm pro-choice because I feel a woman has the right to choose what happens to her body. I am not pro-abortion. I don't like the idea of abortion, and I am not sure how I'd feel if a close friend had one. However, that doesn't mean I'm pro-life (or rather, as I like to say it - anti-choice). The Government should not be able to make laws dictating what has to happen to my body.
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  #46  
February 5th, 2012, 02:46 PM
foxfire_ga79
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Originally Posted by ~Tithen~ View Post
Well PP has horrific restrictions on who they can give birth control to. If you fill out the forms honestly, and you suffer from headaches or migraines with or with out aura.. you go from a dozen options to a small handful. Or none.

I couldn't get anything except depo (which I cannot use) and the mini pill (which isn't effective enough for me, because I know I would not take it at the exact same time each day as required). Why? Because I suffer from Migraines. Doesn't matter that I could prove that I'd been on and off the pill for 12 years (off when single, on when not), their restrictions say "if you have this or this, we cannot help you with what you want".

So first step there would be to be broader with their options.

I was told if I could get a detailed letter from the doctor who wrote my prescription stating a few key things they needed they could help me. So they wanted a $100 letter from my doctor, and another $50 pp visit, in addition to the $50 visit I'd already done... Not really appealing to the low income crowd. If I was to see a Dr down here for that letter, that $200 price would be much higher.


That's exactly what I mean about them needing to put more effort into birth control in the preventive sense. I bet they wouldn't care about your migraines if you wanted them to give you an abortion.
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  #47  
February 5th, 2012, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by frgsonmysox View Post
I'm pro-choice because I feel a woman has the right to choose what happens to her body. I am not pro-abortion. I don't like the idea of abortion, and I am not sure how I'd feel if a close friend had one. However, that doesn't mean I'm pro-life (or rather, as I like to say it - anti-choice). The Government should not be able to make laws dictating what has to happen to my body.

Although I agree with you because I'm pretty anti government messing in my biz, that wording just rubs me the wrong way. An abortion isn't something that's just affecting your (general) body. It's somebody else's heart being stopped.
I know people aren't going to stop saying "my body, my choice" but that is a very poor way to word it IMO. I know why people say it that way, I just don't agree with that phrase.
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  #48  
February 5th, 2012, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxfire_ga79 View Post
Well you're obviously going to believe what you want to. You can't possibly expect the pro abortion crowd (I'm talking about the politicians and the people who get well paid for performing abortions, not individuals who are pro choice but don't think abortion is a good thing as has been stated in this thread) to actually admit that they are doing it for profit. They have to keep up the image that they care about women. So saying everything you found was with a pro life agenda, well duh.

And to the bolded, if women don't want and don't seek birth control, why should my tax or donation dollars pay for their friggin abortion!?!
I didn't say everything I found was pro-life. I said it was opinion pieces, not facts. I'm not going to believe 1 person since there are probably 100s of PPs out there, and not all of them perform every single procedure/etc that the next one does.

I never said that anyone's tax dollars should pay for abortions. All I said was it's a demand and supply. If women stop seeking out BC or a certain BC form then they probably aren't going to spend their money on getting that BC. I know that the 2 PPs here don't do abortions, and they have a lot of BC options. I have several friends who get their BC from there, as well as annual exams.

ETA: The reason I said it seemed like a pro-life agenda in my previous response is because often times when I hear people trying to make things up about PPs abortion stuff it is coming from a pro-lifer, and they don't really have facts to back it up. Or they'll say "well this past worker said that", but that's not really proof.
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Last edited by HappyHippy; February 5th, 2012 at 03:12 PM.
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  #49  
February 5th, 2012, 03:22 PM
foxfire_ga79
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I know not all PPs do abortions, and I never said you said tax dollars should go there. But tax dollars do go to PP. I pay taxes, and so in an indirect way I'm paying for other people's abortions. I don't like that.
And if women stop seeking BC what makes them entitled to a tax payer funded abortion? That's just plain irresponsible.
Besides that, PP should be more mobile. There are such things as mobile health clinics. PP could do something like that to bring BC to women who live in places where it's hard to get to a PP. Or for women who are forgetful about going and getting it until it's too late.
There is plenty of demand for birth control. I don't think there are many women out there who would turn down BC if it was both affordable and attainable.
The bottom line is that PP could be more proactive if they chose to be, but their choice is to continue with abortions.
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  #50  
February 5th, 2012, 03:40 PM
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Not all women get abortions due to lack of BC. There are so many reasons I've heard from women getting abortions (not in person, but online). Young, sexual assault (that could be from a friend, stranger or family member, believe they are too poor for a baby, baby has problems, pregnancy has problems/complications, mom is ill, father of baby is pressuring mom, family of mom is pressuring mom, come from a abusive home, and I'm sure there are more reasons. I doubt that all the abortions PP does is because the mom didn't seek out BC. And not all women *want* to take BC for many reasons, messes with their hormones, makes them sick, gives them depression, etc. Tax dollars goes to many things, and they go to clinics and hospitals too where some of them do perform abortions. I doubt very much of our tax money goes to abortion performing PPs, to be honest.

PP going mobile might be a nice idea in places where there aren't many PPs around. But again, they need money to do that.
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  #51  
February 5th, 2012, 03:50 PM
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My tax dollars go to a war I don't like that kill actual people, not just potential people, maybe I can waive that part of my taxes?
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  #52  
February 5th, 2012, 03:50 PM
foxfire_ga79
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Your lectures on things that are totally obvious are getting pretty irritating. I KNOW there is more than one reason for abortions. I KNOW tax dollars go to many things.
I KNOW not ALL abortions done by PP are because the woman didn't seek out BC.
Debating this with you is going nowhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluffy Baby View Post
My tax dollars go to a war I don't like that kill actual people, not just potential people, maybe I can waive that part of my taxes?
If your tax dollars are going to places you don't like then you vote for politicians who will spend your tax dollars the way you want. Don't like war? Vote for someone who will never go to war. I don't like paying for abortions so I will vote for people who won't use public money on them.
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  #53  
February 5th, 2012, 03:58 PM
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Sheesh I apologize. It just sounded like you were saying women use PP for abortions because PP doesn't give out enough BC, and that you dont' like paying for abortions so you want women to use BC, that 1 woman said she was in a meeting where they told workers to push for abortions so that must mean it's true and so on . Goodness.
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  #54  
February 5th, 2012, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxfire_ga79 View Post
Your lectures on things that are totally obvious are getting pretty irritating. I KNOW there is more than one reason for abortions. I KNOW tax dollars go to many things.
I KNOW not ALL abortions done by PP are because the woman didn't seek out BC.
Debating this with you is going nowhere.



If your tax dollars are going to places you don't like then you vote for politicians who will spend your tax dollars the way you want. Don't like war? Vote for someone who will never go to war. I don't like paying for abortions so I will vote for people who won't use public money on them.


And that is exactly what I do. But the taxes arguement is total BS, we ALL have taxes go to something we do not agree with. Once it leaves your check, it is the governments money to spend how they deem fit, not YOURS. So check the taxes arguement. Anything better to argue?
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  #55  
February 5th, 2012, 04:11 PM
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Um, no, it's not total BS. It's not a simple disagreement like how many fire stations I should have or where roads should be built. For some people it's actually a moral issue. I know not everybody has the same morals so that can't be legislated, but that doesn't make it a BS argument.
Just like the anti war people keep bringing up their taxes funding a war they don't like. If it's BS for me it's BS for you. In every debate where anyone brings it up. This isn't the first time that line has been thrown out on this board.
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  #56  
February 5th, 2012, 05:42 PM
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Deniz you may be anti Jace smoking pot, but you still support his right to choose his life, even when you disagree with his choices.
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  #57  
February 6th, 2012, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Hey... Where's Perry? View Post
Can I just say one more time, I don't understand how you can be prochoice but not be okay with one of the choices?!?! LOL. It baffles me. If my kid makes a bad choice, let's say between ummmm, choosing to do his homework or smoking pot and he chooses to smoke pot, I'm not going to say I am prochoice. I would be anti smoking pot and pro homework. People that are prochoice but don't agree with abortion makes me think they are prolife instead.
Supporting another persons "right to choose" is a "pro choice" stance. Its not about the actual action, its about supporting the right to make choices even though we may not agree with the decision that is made.
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  #58  
February 6th, 2012, 05:01 AM
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Ditto Tammy. I don't know why it is so hard to understand that.

For example, if I was anti-circ, but I can support the parents' right to choose.
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  #59  
February 6th, 2012, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by HappyHippy View Post
Providing more BC doesn't mean more women will want it. Usually places like that operate on a demand and supply bases. So if women aren't seeking as much BC as previously, then they aren't going to keep as much BC on hand.

So I googled PP and abortions and most of what I saw was opinion pieces, not actual facts. Not all PPs do abortions, and I find it hard to believe that PP workers would push a mom into an abortion. It may have happened before at one place, but I doubt it's a common thing. Sounds more like a pro-life agenda.
I was just about to say that. You can hand out all the bc in the world, that doesn't mean that the woman is going to take/use it and even use it correctly if they do use it. In the end in all lays in the hands of the person who had the bc given to them. You can offer it but cannot force them to use it. It reminds me of the saying you can lead a horse to water but you can't force the horse to drink.
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  #60  
February 6th, 2012, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hey... Where's Perry? View Post
Can I just say one more time, I don't understand how you can be prochoice but not be okay with one of the choices?!?! LOL. It baffles me. If my kid makes a bad choice, let's say between ummmm, choosing to do his homework or smoking pot and he chooses to smoke pot, I'm not going to say I am prochoice. I would be anti smoking pot and pro homework. People that are prochoice but don't agree with abortion makes me think they are prolife instead.
When your kid is an adult, you won't have a say. You will have to allow him to choose for himself the path he takes, good or bad; won't matter whether you AGREE or not. You can love the man and hate what he does at the same time. Pro choice- allowing someone else the freedom to choose for themselves, not choosing for them.

By making abortion illegal, you are taking someone else's choices away and do not have that right.

We're talking ADULTS, not minors. Minor children? You choose for them because that's part of your job as a parent. Once they're 18? you don't get the say anymore. Sorry, but that's just truth.
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