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The HIV disclosure debate....*added second question*


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  #1  
February 8th, 2012, 12:17 PM
plan4fate's Avatar I may bend, but not break
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I think this one was done a while back, but since it's come up in Canadian Courts I figured maybe we'd give it a go? We could really debate it for all non curable diseases that could be passed from sexual contact (like herpes).

*I don't know what the US law is on this*


Metro - Do people with HIV have to tell sex partners?


It's a simple question. If you have HIV or any non curable sexually transmissible disease, should you be required to disclose that to ALL sexual partners no matter the "possible risk" prior to sexual contact, or should the use of condoms be enough precaution taken?

edit to add:

How do you think it should be handled when someone does not disclose immediately whether infection occurs or not?
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  #2  
February 8th, 2012, 12:23 PM
BittyBugsMama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Yes, I do think they should be disclosed. You are basically sentencing another human being to death by passing on HIV to them. While I do think both people should be protecting themselves, it is still up to the person with the incurable disease to tell their partner(s) that information so both people are on the same level knowledge wise.
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  #3  
February 8th, 2012, 12:41 PM
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Yes, you should disclose. Condoms break and some people don't like using them so it's up to them to decide if they want to have sexual contact with you. When you have an incurable disease, you need to forewarn those who you plan on being intimate with. It the only respectable thing to do.
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  #4  
February 8th, 2012, 12:54 PM
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Yes you should have to disclose if you have HIV, or any STD really. Even if you have herpes, your sexual partner should know about it because they may then wish to not have sex with you.

I think if you know you have HIV and willingly dont' tell your sexual partner, then it should be a crime. I remember watching a show that had 9 women on it, all got HIV from the same man who was lying about it. I believe he went to prison for it.
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  #5  
February 8th, 2012, 02:54 PM
plan4fate's Avatar I may bend, but not break
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I took this from a friends facebook, they raised some valid points. When DH goes to sleep I'll compile the convo and post it for your reading pleasure. They're a quite intelligent bunch, I love reading how their little minds work.



My opinion is, yes you should disclose it, and if you don't then you need to be punished. It's MY choice to take a risk while having sex yes, but I need to know what those risks are and if they're truly worth it.
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  #6  
February 8th, 2012, 05:43 PM
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Morally, yes you should. Legally, no.

When single, it was 100% in my control to ensure I was practicing safe (or safest sex available) including insisting on condoms or requiring a partner to be tested before having condom free sex (or sex at all if I wanted to).
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  #7  
February 8th, 2012, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poncho06 View Post
Morally, yes you should. Legally, no.

When single, it was 100% in my control to ensure I was practicing safe (or safest sex available) including insisting on condoms or requiring a partner to be tested before having condom free sex (or sex at all if I wanted to).
Why not legally? I understand the way you are thinking, and that's the way the world SHOULD work, but because it doesn't the person with the disease SHOULD have to inform their partner. You're transferring the blame to the victim.
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  #8  
February 8th, 2012, 06:55 PM
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No, I'm not transferring anything to the victim.

In the medical world there is no universal disclosure of HIV/AIDS status. One takes universal precautions treating EVERYONE as if they could be a carrier. Why should a sexual relationship be taken any lighter especially when the chances for exposure are that much greater?

This isn't a "perfect world" scenario at all. In a perfect world, one would know their partner and both be tested prior to having a sexual relationship. Obviously many, myself included back in the day, choose to engage in behavior that will put them at risk. I see it as no different than donning any other protective gear when engaging in behavior that could potentially put my life at risk. My partners knowledge of the status should (and didn't) have any bearing on my treatment towards our sexual relationship.

Would you choose unprotected sex based upon a partner telling you they didn't have HIV/AIDS? What if they were wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Tithen~ View Post
Why not legally? I understand the way you are thinking, and that's the way the world SHOULD work, but because it doesn't the person with the disease SHOULD have to inform their partner. You're transferring the blame to the victim.
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  #9  
February 8th, 2012, 07:01 PM
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In the medical community, we have no choice to treat, thus we take extra precautions. In the dating world, we have choice. If you are forced to disclose that you have diseases, life threatening or not, I can now choose not to have sex with you at all. I can't make that choice at work, but I **** sure can at home.
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  #10  
February 8th, 2012, 07:24 PM
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And what if you're married? Should they not have to tell you then if they got HIV by being unfaithful? I mean you the spouse think you're having sex with your faithful partner.
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  #11  
February 8th, 2012, 07:28 PM
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But anyone has the potential to be infected and go onto infect others without the initial carrier ever being aware they are infected. Whether they know or not will not change your chance for infection.

I'm not seeing how forcing someone to forfeit their privacy would make me any safer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHippy View Post
And what if you're married? Should they not have to tell you then if they got HIV by being unfaithful? I mean you the spouse think you're having sex with your faithful partner.
Should your spouse be legally obligated to disclose their lack of being faithful?
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  #12  
February 8th, 2012, 07:33 PM
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How would it not change the chance of infection? If I'm thinking of having unprotected sex with someone, probably because I feel we're at that point or maybe we'd like to have a baby, and I then find out they have HIV, I would not have sex with them. Thus reducing my chance of being infected. And this can work in any scenario where people are having sex.

I'm all for privacy, but if you knowingly have HIV then your right to that privacy goes out the window because your sex partner has every right to know so they can decide if they'd like to have sex with you or not. I don't think anyone should have the right to knowingly hide HIV status knowing it is a deadly disease.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poncho06 View Post
But anyone has the potential to be infected and go onto infect others without the initial carrier ever being aware they are infected. Whether they know or not will not change your chance for infection.

I'm not seeing how forcing someone to forfeit their privacy would make me any safer?



Should your spouse be legally obligated to disclose their lack of being faithful?
If it has resulted in HIV, yes.
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  #13  
February 8th, 2012, 07:37 PM
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This is a situation where a person is aware of their disease and simply do not tell their potential partner. I think that is reckless endangerment of another person's life. It is like shooting a loaded gun into the air and then arguing you are not responsible if the bullet hits anyone. You are essentially a deadly weapon, in any other scenario - people get punished for that. Why is this situation any different?
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  #14  
February 8th, 2012, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHippy View Post
How would it not change the chance of infection? If I'm thinking of having unprotected sex with someone, probably because I feel we're at that point or maybe we'd like to have a baby, and I then find out they have HIV, I would not have sex with them. Thus reducing my chance of being infected. And this can work in any scenario where people are having sex.

I'm all for privacy, but if you knowingly have HIV then your right to that privacy goes out the window because your sex partner has every right to know so they can decide if they'd like to have sex with you or not. I don't think anyone should have the right to knowingly hide HIV status knowing it is a deadly disease.
Am I the only one who had HIV tests intermittently while single and before I got married? DH and I both were tested before we had condom free sex.



Quote:
If it has resulted in HIV, yes.
So only HIV? What about herpes or any of the other myriad of STD's out there. Is HIV the only disease you feel people should no longer have any right to privacy with?

Should doctors be LEGALLY required to disclose to their patients that are HIV positive? What about nurses or any other job where transmission is possible if universal precautions are not properly taken?
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  #15  
February 8th, 2012, 07:52 PM
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This man got 45 years for infecting atleast 9 women with HIV North Texas man knowingly infected women with HIV and was sentenced to jail for it | abc13.com He was convicted of assault with a deadly weapon

This man faces 24 years for infecting 3 women with HIV
HIV patient admits to infecting women | Sandusky Register I believe he actually got sentanced to 5 years

This man faces 120 years of jail time for possibly infection 12 women with HIV ProWrestler Faces 120 Yrs in Prison For Knowingly Infecting 12 Women w/HIV In Ohio where he lives, it is against the law to not share your HIV status. It is a felony assault

It's a crime in many places Criminal transmission of HIV - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poncho06 View Post
Am I the only one who had HIV tests intermittently while single and before I got married? DH and I both were tested before we had condom free sex.





So only HIV? What about herpes or any of the other myriad of STD's out there. Is HIV the only disease you feel people should no longer have any right to privacy with?

Should doctors be LEGALLY required to disclose to their patients that are HIV positive? What about nurses or any other job where transmission is possible if universal precautions are not properly taken?
The problem is some people *lie* about it. They say they got tested and it was negative. Some men also say they're wearing a condom when they're not. If you think you're in a monogamous marriage/relationship, you're unlikely to get tested again for HIV unless you get pregnant, and even then, it doesn't always happen.

I think a spouse, who is unfaithful and gets a STD, deadly or not, should be legally required to tell their spouse or other sexual partners. I think that should go for anyone, not just married couples. If I was single and decided to have sex with some guy, he should be legally required to disclose to me if he has any STD (and that is something I said in my first response). I should have the right to make an informed decision to have sex with someone, condom or not, by knowing their STD/STI status.
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  #16  
February 8th, 2012, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poncho06 View Post
Am I the only one who had HIV tests intermittently while single and before I got married? DH and I both were tested before we had condom free sex.





So only HIV? What about herpes or any of the other myriad of STD's out there. Is HIV the only disease you feel people should no longer have any right to privacy with?

Should doctors be LEGALLY required to disclose to their patients that are HIV positive? What about nurses or any other job where transmission is possible if universal precautions are not properly taken?
Yes, I think in a situation where transmission can happen - people have a right to know that there is potential that they get infected. At my old job, I wasn't allowed to know if students had any type of disease that they could pass on to me and it is terrifying to think that any small accident could infect me with something that could end my life. And its not about discriminating against those who have diseases, its about making sure you are 100 times more careful than you are already being. If one encounter can forever change another person's life and potentially end it, I think that person has the right to know that the possibility is there.
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  #17  
February 8th, 2012, 09:07 PM
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I think it should definitely be required for HIV, that is life threatening and fatal, and other non-curable STDs. This may not be much "evidence" but i've watched plenty of Law&Order:SVU (sex crimes) where people who knowingly had unprotected sex while having HIV and infecting others were sentenced to prison. Those shows may be fake, but they do follow the law to a good extent. They treated it as a deadly weapon.. which it is.

I'm all for free love and the unrestrained sex and doing who you want, when you want, how you want and all that.. AS LONG AS it does not hurt or endanger the other person's life. And with HIV, it does. That's not OK.
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  #18  
February 8th, 2012, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poncho06 View Post
No, I'm not transferring anything to the victim.

In the medical world there is no universal disclosure of HIV/AIDS status. One takes universal precautions treating EVERYONE as if they could be a carrier. Why should a sexual relationship be taken any lighter especially when the chances for exposure are that much greater?

This isn't a "perfect world" scenario at all. In a perfect world, one would know their partner and both be tested prior to having a sexual relationship. Obviously many, myself included back in the day, choose to engage in behavior that will put them at risk. I see it as no different than donning any other protective gear when engaging in behavior that could potentially put my life at risk. My partners knowledge of the status should (and didn't) have any bearing on my treatment towards our sexual relationship.

Would you choose unprotected sex based upon a partner telling you they didn't have HIV/AIDS? What if they were wrong?
If they themselves DO NOT KNOW they have HIV, unless they know they have been exposed, would not be at fault in my opinion. If you know you've been exposed, you should be tested immediately, and disclose to future partners that you have been exposed, and are awaiting results. That still gives them the CHOICE.

And who's saying unprotected? My first loss was the result of a condom mishap, new brand, didn't fit right apparently cause it slipped off. If my ex had HIV, I'd have been freaking out right about then. Instead I got knocked up. Condoms break, they are not perfect... you cannot rely on a condom as a method of silence. The only sure fire way to not transmit anything during sex, is to not have it in the first place.


I've had three HIV tests in the 12 years I've been sexually active. Two for exposed blood products, one after a very drunken on night stand that had genital contact (not enough that most people would even think to get a test), I'd have let it go until I found out he was actively Bi and my gay friends insisted I get tested. I was in relationships with the two blood product ones, and we didn't have sex until my results were back. Sure, we could have used condoms, but the risk weren't worth it for us.. so we didn't do anything at all.



I think knowing transmitting or exposing someone to anything NON CURABLE (while herpes can have long remissions, it is not considered curable as you always retain the virus) with out consent should be a crime.
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Last edited by plan4fate; February 8th, 2012 at 09:42 PM.
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  #19  
February 8th, 2012, 09:43 PM
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and morally I agree, I just can't agree with prosecuting and jailing those who do not give up their right to anonymity. Especially when people can/are infected with HIV for YEARS before becoming symptomatic or diagnosed.


A few issues with how laws prosecuting those with HIV thus far
Posts | The Center for HIV Law and Policy

Quote:
Though condom use significantly reduces the already-low risk of HIV transmission, most HIV-specific laws don't treat condom use during sexual intercourse as a defense or as evidence that the person did not intend to transmit HIV. One example of how this plays out is an Iowa case in which a man with HIV but an undetectable viral load had sex and used a condom with someone in a single sexual encounter; HIV was not transmitted but he still received a 25-year sentence (which was eventually suspended but required him to register as a sex offender and barred him from unsupervised contact with his nieces, nephews, and other young children). There are even cases against sex workers in which possession of condoms (strongly encouraged by public health officials in interventions with sex workers and others) is actually treated as evidence of intent to commit a crime.
Quote:
Many people also have been convicted for acts that cannot transmit HIV, such as spitting. A man with HIV in Texas is currently serving 35 years for spitting at a police officer. Another HIV-positive man in Maryland currently is serving 5 years for supposedly spitting on a police officer.
Should those who are HIV/AIDS positive be legally denied the right to reproduce? Their offspring will have a MUCH greater risk of being HIV positive than those who are born to NON HIV positive parents? Do the same rules that remove a persons medical anonymity apply to offspring as well?
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  #20  
February 8th, 2012, 10:05 PM
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I'm not sure where you're going with this argument. We are talking about not informing a sexual partner of COMMUNICABLE DISEASE risks... but the risks during pregnancy.



2% risk of passing HIV during pregnancy. Higher if you breastfeed
1/1000 children born in the US will have herpes
How many of us have recessive conditions that could pass to our kids?

If you want to go that argument, everyone get IVF and only the perfect embryos go into the most perfect body. Problem solved , no natural breeding allowed.
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Matthew&Mark 08/24/2005 9w1d, Mattie Anne 04/07/2008 8w Mel|&Dee 01/19/2010 (8 weeks) and 5 chemical pregnancies
Hope 07/22/2012@4w1d, Konnor 11/24/2012@3w6d,"Emmy"1/15/2013@ 3w6d, Ronen 02/10/2013@3w5d, Joy 07/19/2013@3w6d, "Pea" 09/06/2013@ 3w3d

Me: Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, PCOS, Insulin resistant
175mcg Synthyroid, 1500mg Metformin
Him: MFI low count, low morphology, low motillity
Seeing MFI specialist/RE in 2015
Attempting vitamins for remainder of 2014
Weight loss goal #1 - 10% body weight 23.4lbs - accomplished July 13 2014
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