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Dad arrested for owning a toy gun


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  #1  
February 26th, 2012, 08:12 AM
Tammyjh's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Dad arrested after daughter draws picture of toy pistol
Quote:
Daddy, are you mad at me?
Those were the first words out of the mouth of a scared little girl to her father when he was released this week after being charged with possession of a firearm because of a picture she drew at school of a man holding a gun - which turned out to be a toy.
On Wednesday police in Waterloo, Ont., arrested Jessie Sansone, 26, a resident of nearby Kitchener, when a teacher at his daughter's school voiced concern over the drawing, Insp. Kevin Thaler of Waterloo Regional Police told Postmedia News. The school contacted Family and Children's Services, which then called police, said Thaler.
Arrested dad wants answers after daughter draws gun pic | Canada | News | Toronto Sun
Quote:
OTTAWA - Jessie Sansone and his family are reeling after he was arrested and strip searched by police after his four-year-old daughter drew a picture of a man with a gun in her Kitchener, Ont., kindergarten class.
The 26-year-old father of four said Saturday the sketch was supposed to be him, getting the bad guys and monsters.
Quote:
Sansone said police searched his house and found a plastic toy gun that shoots foam darts.
Was this over reaching on the part of the school?
An honest mistake?
Dad's fault for owning a toy gun?
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  #2  
February 26th, 2012, 09:07 AM
Poncho06's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Is gun ownership illegal in Ontario? Can someone be arrested for merely owning a weapon?

Not that it will change my answer a huge amount but I could at least in some way understand the tremendous over reaction on all parts if it is illegal to own one at all. How did this man end up strip searched and arrested before ANYONE did a search of his home to see if a weapon even existed?
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  #3  
February 26th, 2012, 09:39 AM
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  #4  
February 26th, 2012, 10:18 AM
plan4fate's Avatar I may bend, but not break
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My head is spinning. I know a very little about Canadian gun laws, despite the fact that I CAN own and use guns in the country.

Guns laws in Canada I believe are a lot stricter than the USA. There are basically 3 categories legal (like hunting rifles), restricted (certain handguns) and prohibibted (like the AK's). There are what feels like a million and one rules to be followed... I'll give you the wiki to browse if you want.

Gun politics in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have to have a license and permit to own some guns. There are courses, paperwork etc. If the man had no paperwork, I could see them obtaining a search warrant. I cannot, for the life of me, figure out HOW they 1- strip searched him. 2-even arrested him at all, 3-took the kids to be interviewed with out the mother's knowledge, 4-MADE the mother sit at the police station, she's not required to be there unless she's in trouble herself.

This was just completely over the top.

But obviously a learning tool for parents to teach their children when asked ABOUT the guns in the home, to specify between real, and plastic dart shooting guns. We NEVER refer to the darts in our nerf guns as Bullets, always as ammo, when Reme calls them bullets we stop our play and explain that bullets go into REAL guns, and that our foam darts are to be called Darts or Ammo or we'll put the guns away.
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  #5  
February 26th, 2012, 11:00 AM
Frackel's Avatar DOh!
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Beyond over the top.
Even if it was illegal for him to own a gun, a picture a child draws doesn't necessarily always depict real life accurately.

Good way to make kids scared of guns,or any weapons really, though. Not to mention people in authoritative positions, especially the 4 yr old. Rather than taking a moment to educate, everyone jumped the gun(irony oh how I love thee) and now a little girl feels responsible and was scared her daddy would be mad at her. That'll surely teach those parents, eh?
Who exactly were they trying to make a point to here, though? My guess is the negative impact far outweighs any possibility for a good one to exist.
I guess if their goal was to sour their own reputation, they did a bang up job. I sure wouldn't put much faith in them.

I do believe parents need to teach their children the difference between toys and real guns. But I find it highly unlikely that the older children described this foam dart shooting gun(aka, a nerf gun) as some real gun.
I understand being concerned about the potential for a bad situation in a child's home too, based on what they say, do, draw, etc... But you don't just immediately assume the worst, call not only the police but also child services, have a person arrested, strip searched and put in a cell, their children split up and taken by child services, scare the spouse, make her sit in a police station for hours and everything else....before finding out the actual facts. That's not likely to end well and it's definitely not going to boost public confidence in any of those services/people.

I'd be pissed too.
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  #6  
February 26th, 2012, 01:10 PM
plan4fate's Avatar I may bend, but not break
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frackel View Post
Beyond over the top.
Even if it was illegal for him to own a gun, a picture a child draws doesn't necessarily always depict real life accurately.

Good way to make kids scared of guns,or any weapons really, though. Not to mention people in authoritative positions, especially the 4 yr old. Rather than taking a moment to educate, everyone jumped the gun(irony oh how I love thee) and now a little girl feels responsible and was scared her daddy would be mad at her. That'll surely teach those parents, eh?
Who exactly were they trying to make a point to here, though? My guess is the negative impact far outweighs any possibility for a good one to exist.
I guess if their goal was to sour their own reputation, they did a bang up job. I sure wouldn't put much faith in them.

I do believe parents need to teach their children the difference between toys and real guns. But I find it highly unlikely that the older children described this foam dart shooting gun(aka, a nerf gun) as some real gun.
I understand being concerned about the potential for a bad situation in a child's home too, based on what they say, do, draw, etc... But you don't just immediately assume the worst, call not only the police but also child services, have a person arrested, strip searched and put in a cell, their children split up and taken by child services, scare the spouse, make her sit in a police station for hours and everything else....before finding out the actual facts. That's not likely to end well and it's definitely not going to boost public confidence in any of those services/people.

I'd be pissed too.
It seems you pretty much ARE raised to fear them in Canada. I know where I'm from, you're raised with two kinds of guns. The ok kind, and the not ok kind. The ok kind are hunting equipment meant for feeding yourself, the other kind.. is everything else. I don't know the US laws.. but if you look at the requirements for storing a gun... it's not going to really help you in a pinch. Has to be stored, with out ammo, with a lock on the trigger, in a locked container. So if you wanted it for a home invasion first you've got to get the keys, get the gun, go get the ammo, unlock the gun trigger, load the **** thing... and by this time you're probably out of time. I know we couldn't have even gotten to the guns stored in our house in time.. since they were in the basement and you'd have to walk through the entire house to get them.

Exact wording:

Quote:
Non-restricted firearms must be unloaded and:
made inoperable with a secure locking device (such as a trigger lock); OR
have bolt(s) or bolt-carrier(s) removed; OR
securely locked in a sturdy container, cabinet or room that cannot be easily broken into
except if: (1) in areas where it is legal to fire a gun, non-restricted firearms needed for predator control can temporarily be left unlocked and operable, but they must be kept unloaded and all ammunition must be stored separately, and (2) in wilderness areas, non-restricted firearms can be left unlocked and/or operable, but must be left unloaded (ammunition may be kept nearby).
Restricted firearms must be unloaded and:
made inoperable with a secure locking device (such as a trigger lock) and securely locked in a sturdy container, cabinet or room that cannot be easily broken into; OR
locked in a vault, safe or room that was built or adapted for storing these types of firearms
for automatic firearms, the bolt(s) or bolt-carrier(s) must be removed, if removable, and stored in a separate locked room that cannot be easily broken into
Bit cities might be a little different of course, but I know the only handgun's I've ever seen were police issue.. but just about every joe has one or two hunting rifles.


It's just a whole lot different than down here... and after being down here, I think a lot of the gun law is just crazy.
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  #7  
February 26th, 2012, 04:52 PM
Jessimaaka's Avatar Pink in a house of Blue
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This happened in my city. The views on guns in Canada are definitely a lot different than the US. Far less common I think (I'm not clear on the US views).

Regardless, the reaction was completely inappropriate and totally over the top. Not quite sure what the protocol is, but:
- The school did not question the child before making assumptions
- The school did not question the man before making assumptions
- The officers did not question the man before making assumptions
- They called in Family & Childrens services unnecessarily (which means they will be under intense scrutiny for the next few years)
- The picture was of her dad shooting 'monsters and bad guys'...is she not seeing her dad as a hero figure rather than an actual event?

I am more concerned about the little girl's well being going forward....she will likely to be very timid of drawing and writing things down.
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  #8  
February 26th, 2012, 06:19 PM
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Seriously? Over a toy gun. Completely overreaction. I can understand that guns are viewed differently in Canada. But come the heck on they could have done a search of the house before strip searching and arresting him like that.
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  #9  
February 26th, 2012, 07:06 PM
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They most definitely should have questioned the child and father first, and searched the house before arresting him. Now this man has this on his record forever, most likely. Over a friggin' nerf gun. I hate guns and would let my kids have nerf guns.

The Dad probably pretended he was shooting monsters with the nerf gun to make his daughter feel safer to sleep or something, and she drew it. Or she could have completely made it up. Who knows, which is why they should have questioned her before doing anything!
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  #10  
February 26th, 2012, 07:37 PM
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I don't think this is a case of "guns are looked at differently in Canada". It's a case of "some people are freaking morons".
Wouldn't have mattered to me where it happened, really. I'd still think it was beyond over the top. Not to mention the bad pr that school, child services and local law enforcement will now get from it. My guess is they likely get enough bad pr, compounding it probably won't help them out any. I sure as heck wouldn't put any faith in them. Even if it weren't me, I'd rethink sending my kids to that school, if they attended it, too. What they did was asinine at best.
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  #11  
February 27th, 2012, 09:26 AM
fluffycheeks's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Since this 4 year olds picture was so accurate, I'm disappointed to find out the school and police didn't really get to the root of the problem: Where are the monsters? My parents have been telling me my whe life monsters don't exist, but apparently they do because a 4 year old drew a picture of one that was convincing enough to arrest someone. So where are the monsters?


This poor dad. His only crime is naming his baby Sundae.
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  #12  
February 27th, 2012, 09:50 AM
KrazE's Avatar ShutTheFrontDoor
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The father was arrested & charged with 'possession of a weapon' based on the picture drawn by his daughter.
The school questioned the child about the picture which prompted them to call CAS (Children's Aid Society) as is their requirement, so I don't think the school acted inappropriately by making that call.

The police are the ones that (pardon the pun) jumped the gun & arrested the father when he was at the school to pick up his children; they had not yet even issued a warrant at that point in time, and will likely claim that they arrested him for safety purposes.

Most households in Canada do not legally have guns as standard unless the person is in law enforcement, has had a reason to feel the need for protection (which is actually few & far between), is a hunter, or they live in a rural area such as a farm where they need one for critters.

I think that the whole situation is being egged on by the media, and quite likely the parents who probably have been contacted by a lawyer telling them how their human/civil rights were ignored.

I think the biggest error was on the part of the police who should have simply done questioning without the arrest & charge, and they should have issued the warrant much quicker than they did - I wouldn't be surprised if they had some difficulty getting a Judge to sign off on the warrant.

There is also little to no information on the family history; there has been tidbits of info stating that the father was in trouble with the law in the past 5 years, but has 'cleaned up', so without knowing what that exact issue was, they may have been correct in their caution, but not in the charge; they could have held him for up to 24 hours without charge I believe, that would have been ample time to issue the warrant.

We'll see how it plays out & if the family jumps on the sue wagon.
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  #13  
February 27th, 2012, 09:59 AM
BittyBugsMama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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The whole thing is ridiculous. My son has a toy nerf gun that he "kills" monsters with... its just a toy. If we got searched and arrested for my son talking about his gun or drawing a picture of it, we'd be living large with all the money we got from the lawsuit we'd win.
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  #14  
February 27th, 2012, 11:16 AM
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So now we have to worry about what our children draws in school ??? Thats crazy !!!! Seriously a child draws a pic of her dad holding a gun regardless if its real or not and thats enought to merit a police investigation and child services ?!?!?! I think that was way over the boundries of everything ! I just can't wrap my head around that . What it seems to me is a good dad who "kills" monsters for his 4yr old was made to be a bad guy by a teacher judging by what she did proboly has no kids and embarresed him by getting him arrested and investigated . I would sue and sue big !!!! that was so uncalled for regaurdless if there is or isnt a gun law . Its a drawing !
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  #15  
February 27th, 2012, 11:52 AM
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The sue wagon? Really, if there is ever a case that is justified in a law suit, this would be one of them.
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  #16  
February 27th, 2012, 12:32 PM
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I don't agree that the school acted appropriately. And yeah, I would agree with a lawsuit in this case.
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  #17  
February 27th, 2012, 02:20 PM
KrazE's Avatar ShutTheFrontDoor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K.A.T View Post
The sue wagon? Really, if there is ever a case that is justified in a law suit, this would be one of them.
The sue wagon comment is due to the high number of cases on Ontario over the last several months - it's been crazy the number of people that have been suing for something or another these days; doesn't mean that they shouldn't sue - as I said, the police 'jumped the gun' in this case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammyjh View Post
I don't agree that the school acted appropriately. And yeah, I would agree with a lawsuit in this case.
Why do you feel that way? RE: the school; you posted the debate, but haven't added anything else.

Edit to add: I'm still trying to find if his 'criminal past' was anything along these lines, but I did find a quote that was released to the press in regards to the questioning of the child
Quote:
When Neavah’s teacher asked her about the drawing, the 4-year-old said “That’s my daddy’s. He uses it to shoot bad guys and monsters.”
Yes, she's 4, but that's a really tough sentence to interpret.

Still searching..

Found it - he was convicted five years ago of assault and attempted burglary
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Last edited by KrazE; February 27th, 2012 at 02:33 PM.
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  #18  
February 27th, 2012, 02:40 PM
Tammyjh's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrazE View Post
Why do you feel that way? RE: the school; you posted the debate, but haven't added anything else.
I feel its over the top for any school to call the police and child protective services over a child's drawing of a gun.

As far as my adding anything else, I "liked" Michelle's post which pretty much means that I agree with her. My adding anything else to that would just be rewording what she posted.
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Last edited by Tammyjh; February 27th, 2012 at 02:43 PM.
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  #19  
February 27th, 2012, 04:43 PM
KrazE's Avatar ShutTheFrontDoor
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I would really like to hear the whole story rather than what can be found in the news right now; mostly it's all quotes from the father about how involved he was with the school etc, but I find it very strange that the school did not call & ask to speak to him first if there really was such an 'open' relationship with them.
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  #20  
February 27th, 2012, 05:23 PM
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I think that calling CAS and the police were over the top. They should have asked the dad and went from there. I tell London that I work with bad guys all the time and that we keep them in things like cages. She thinks I mean it's like a dog pen. I could totally see her going to school and saying mommy keeps bad guys in dog pens. Would they then think that I really put people in dog cages? Or that I put her in a cage when she's bad?
Being strip-searched is incredibly invasive and horrible, so I hope they sue and win, not to mention embarrassing. I hope they sue and win.
I don't care what his prior charge was from years ago. He paid his dues for that and should be able to move on from it.
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