[GSLynn]

Originally Posted by peace.love.audrey

I'm not with an agency. My IPs are letting me make the decisions regarding the pregnancy and delivery. I think there is a difference between TS and GS because with GS it's most commonly the IPs egg/sperm and they usually request the right to control the pregnancy. I would never work with IPs who chose to terminate or selectively reduce, I think it's disgusting.

This isn't true. I have seen TS AND GS cases where usually IM's (not IF's so much) want to control every detail because of reasons I cannot explain. But this is not due to any biological connection to the baby. It's just something that happens sometimes. My IP's trusted me fully and I'm a GS. I wouldn't have matched with someone that controlling. My IP's knew I have kids already, knew I already know how to be pregnant, knew I would keep their child safe. Not all IP's have that security.

[hannah79]

Lynn, how can you keep saying it isn't a job?if you are getting paid for a service, it is a job. It might not be great money. It might not completely support your family, but it is still a job. Why do you refuse to acknowledge that getting paid for a service is a job?

[peace.love.audrey]

Originally Posted by fluffycheeks

I still am waiting to hear the answer from several people on how it isn't a job.

I'm not sure if this is directed at me but I don't consider it a job because I have a job. My family did fine before surrogacy and will do fine after. I would only consider it a job if I wasn't working or if I was making $20,000 to $30,000 in compensation...then I guess I could consider it a 2nd job?

ETA.....I can see where some of you think it's a job because you are receiving compensation but my definition might be different than yours. I think of my compensation as more of a gift from my IPs because they appreciate the risks I took to make their dreams come true. I dont really care about the money. Idk, I really don't know how to explain why it's not a job to me that will suit your needs.

[GSLynn]

Originally Posted by peace.love.audrey

I'm not with an agency. My IPs are letting me make the decisions regarding the pregnancy and delivery. I think there is a difference between TS and GS because with GS it's most commonly the IPs egg/sperm and they usually request the right to control the pregnancy. I would never work with IPs who chose to terminate or selectively reduce, I think it's disgusting.

Originally Posted by HappyHippy

But what if things change while pregnant? And a lot of OBs actually do induce before baby is ready or before 40 weeks (the hopsital where I had ds1 had *just* changed their policy on inducing before 40 weeks. For the past 5+ years they were inducing 90% of the time before the onset of labor, and most hospitals that I go into are still that way. Heck many OBs still do elective c-sections for no reason). What if everything was great prior to surromom got pregnant and then when she did feelings changed on things like where to birth, IP has a OB that will induce prior to labor and IPs want to do that, what if IPs no longer want baby or what if surromom wants baby (some states, maybe just one, says that the woman who gives birth is the mom no matter if the baby is biologically hers or not)?

What if they don't have a contract? Not everyone does this through an agency or even gets lawyers involved. What if they are family memebers or something so they don't draw up contracts or legal binding ones.

If a pregnancy has complications, in the contract, the clause tells you to do what the OB/midwife orders. So if something goes on and an induction is NEEDED? Yes, of course I'd do it.

Anyone who doesn't have a contract is asking for trouble, but that is their own fault. I would have a contract even for family. It protects all parties. Without it, you're taking a huge gamble. I also would never consider surrogacy in a state where it's illegal, that's just not a smart thing. As an IP I would NEVER match with surrogates from AZ, MI, NY, or where surrogacy laws are 'unclear" even if my surrogate agreed to birth out of state. This is for the very reason you asked. If an IP does all this knowing that surrogacy isn't legal in that state, that's on them. Since my state it's legal, then whatever is in the contract is honored. So if IP's change their mind? They're responsible for placing the baby for adoption and all the costs associated. I encourage any prospective IP's and surrogates to research a lot before getting involved in this type of thing. It's not something you can decide in one day.

The other ??'s I did address, and those cases are rare.

[HappyHippy]

You didn't answer what if the IPs want the woman do induce at 39 weeks. Many OBs do elective inductions, so what if the IPs have an OB who will induce surromom. Who makes the call?

Providing a service + getting paid = job. My DH flies friends/family sometimes for a little bit of money. It is not his full time job, nor would those times be enough to support us (it will put gas in the vehicles a few times, that's it) but it's still a job since he's providing a service that he's being paid for. And I can think of many examples of things like that.

[MindyRambo]

Originally Posted by GSLynn

this is one of the huge things you discuss in contract. If you have an IP that wants to terminate, and you don't believe in it, you don't match with them. Constitutionally, an IP cannot force a surrogate to terminate, but usually this is not a problem for most. Although, in the one case of the girl, she didn't have this addressed properly in her contract and this is why she finds herself in the predicament she's in. Also, many diseases/etc are found after 20 weeks, and those things aren't always considered, so when you get to that point, even if in the contract, many women will say "no way". I have been through supporting women who have had to terminate, and it's ugly. VERY ugly situation. I have supported women who have had stillbirth losses of their surrogate baby, etc.

For IP's that walk away? That's rare. There was one case I read about where a woman was pregnant with a girl and the IP's wanted a boy. There is something called PGD where you can determine the sex of the baby beforehand and and only select embryos of that sex to be transferred, but they chose not to use this because it's an additional few thousand dollars. They asked the girl to terminate, she refused, and she had to find a home for the baby.

To the bolded, in this specific case, why did they decide they didn't want the baby? Some kind of disease discovered?

To the second paragraph, that is disgusting, and I have to think the IP's couldn't have wanted a baby that bad... I have to wonder if they were able to get pregnant if they would have terminated themselves if it was a girl. This might sound harsh but I don't believe they deserved any child.

[momof4n1more]

I got to chose my OB, the hospital I delivered at and how I want the birth to go (as much as anyone can plan) :-D. I had a 24 page legal contract that took care of the "what it's". Basically I made decisions about my health and IP's made decisions regarding babies health.
I want to address the question about feeling attached to the baby after delivery. Its a very common question. I look at it like this, I'm not infertile and if I want another child I can. Also, with your own children I feel like you start bonding the minute you find out you are pregnant. You Think of names, buy baby clothes, decorate a nursery, etc. As a surrogate you don't do any of those things. I loved the child I carried but not like a mother does. I took care of myself just as I would if it was my child. The mentality is different from the very beginning. When the baby was born, she was placed on my chest first and I handed her to her mother. I will never forget the first time mom and baby saw each other. It was very special to me. I truly truly felt no maternal connection to her and that is not uncommon
she didn't look like my babies and she didn't smell like my babies. I know it's hard to imagine unless you have been through it but it's true. I even pumped breast milk for her for a month. I'm sure a lot of you will think that's crazy but I felt like that was a gift only I can give to her and we all know breast milk is best That was not part of the contract and I never received one dime for that. I got to spend about a hour completely alone with her in the hospital to say my goodbyes and then we went our separate ways. I get text and pics from her mom all the time. I'm sorry if I was defensive before but you have to look at it this way. What if you felt passionately about something that a lot of people are uneducated about? What if you were being misunderstood and everyone was very wrong about how they viewed you passion? Surrogates feel this way time after time and sometimes it gets the best of us and we get defensive. feel free to ask as many questions as you like and I will try to answer them the best I can

[GSLynn]

Originally Posted by hannah79

Lynn, how can you keep saying it isn't a job?if you are getting paid for a service, it is a job. It might not be great money. It might not completely support your family, but it is still a job. Why do you refuse to acknowledge that getting paid for a service is a job?

Not everything that involves money exchanged has to involve a "job". You can receive "gifts" up to $10,000 according to the IRS. Surrogacy comp is usually given for the pain and suffering that pregnancy/birth entails. It covers additional expenses one may have that they wouldn't have but for the fact they're pregnant. Plus, what if I don't get pregnant? And it takes 4 years of my time? There are so many factors involved. I guess SOME people could use it as a crutch and make sort of a job out of it, but again, not the norm.

[peace.love.audrey]

Originally Posted by HappyHippy

You didn't answer what if the IPs want the woman do induce at 39 weeks. Many OBs do elective inductions, so what if the IPs have an OB who will induce surromom. Who makes the call?

This is something you would discuss before you sign contracts. If they want an induction and you don't, you don't sign with them.

[HappyHippy]

Usually when you recieve a gift you didn't provide a service.

Thank you Susan for explaning that. I think some will still feel maternal attachment because hormones play a huge part in that. Yes some of the attachment comes from knowing it's yours, planning a nursery, clothes, names, etc. But other times it's just those good ol' hormones. For example with both my kids we didn't do a nursery (we bed-share/co-sleep), and with ds2 I didn't buy anything since we knew we were having our second boy and kept all of ds1's stuff. We also didn't really do names and didn't know his name until he was born. But I still had a strong bond/attachment and I think a large part of that was because I felt awesome in pregnancy and my hormones were really high, I had a lot of "love cocktail" hormones.

Originally Posted by peace.love.audrey

This is something you would discuss before you sign contracts. If they want an induction and you don't, you don't sign with them.

Yes, but I'm asking when they don't have a contract.

[GSLynn]

Originally Posted by MindyRambo

To the bolded, in this specific case, why did they decide they didn't want the baby? Some kind of disease discovered?

To the second paragraph, that is disgusting, and I have to think the IP's couldn't have wanted a baby that bad... I have to wonder if they were able to get pregnant if they would have terminated themselves if it was a girl. This might sound harsh but I don't believe they deserved any child.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to not answer that. I cannot give that info out. There is a pending case and she has only posted what I posted, and so that's all I have permission to say.

Yes, I agree. I wouldn't be a surrogate for just anyone. Yep, I have some judgments about who should/should not be parents based on many factors. I disagree that someone who would abort willy-nilly should get a child, someone on drugs, someone who is a psycho...the list goes on. I only match with people I feel comfortable with. I have had my IP's background checked, through a whole different country (taken out of my comp). I did this on purpose. I want to know who I'm placing a child with, regardless of the fact the child is theirs.

Originally Posted by HappyHippy

Usually when you recieve a gift you didn't provide a service.

Thank you Susan for explaning that. I think some will still feel maternal attachment because hormones play a huge part in that. Yes some of the attachment comes from knowing it's yours, planning a nursery, clothes, names, etc. But other times it's just those good ol' hormones. For example with both my kids we didn't do a nursery (we bed-share/co-sleep), and with ds2 I didn't buy anything since we knew we were having our second boy and kept all of ds1's stuff. We also didn't really do names and didn't know his name until he was born. But I still had a strong bond/attachment and I think a large part of that was because I felt awesome in pregnancy and my hormones were really high, I had a lot of "love cocktail" hormones.



Yes, but I'm asking when they don't have a contract.

There should never ever be an incidence where there isn't a contract.


If you do something for someone else, you're providing a service. Something as simple as I give you a ride to work every day. You get your taxes and hand me $5K because I did that for you. It's not that my taking you to work every day was a job, it was something I did to help you; you acknowledged that help. I would not count that as employment. Obviously, most friends don't do all this for each other, but surrogacy is not a hugely popular thing either.

[peace.love.audrey]

Originally Posted by HappyHippy

Usually when you recieve a gift you didn't provide a service.

Thank you Susan for explaning that. I think some will still feel maternal attachment because hormones play a huge part in that. Yes some of the attachment comes from knowing it's yours, planning a nursery, clothes, names, etc. But other times it's just those good ol' hormones. For example with both my kids we didn't do a nursery (we bed-share/co-sleep), and with ds2 I didn't buy anything since we knew we were having our second boy and kept all of ds1's stuff. We also didn't really do names and didn't know his name until he was born. But I still had a strong bond/attachment and I think a large part of that was because I felt awesome in pregnancy and my hormones were really high, I had a lot of "love cocktail" hormones.



Yes, but I'm asking when they don't have a contract.

if they don't have a contract then they are obviously too stupid to make decisions for themselves.

[HappyHippy]

Originally Posted by peace.love.audrey

if they don't have a contract then they are obviously too stupid to make decisions for themselves.

Wow ok

[hannah79]

Originally Posted by GSLynn

Not everything that involves money exchanged has to involve a "job". You can receive "gifts" up to $10,000 according to the IRS. Surrogacy comp is usually given for the pain and suffering that pregnancy/birth entails. It covers additional expenses one may have that they wouldn't have but for the fact they're pregnant. Plus, what if I don't get pregnant? And it takes 4 years of my time? There are so many factors involved. I guess SOME people could use it as a crutch and make sort of a job out of it, but again, not the norm.

Who's arguing semantics now?

[momof4n1more]

Originally Posted by HappyHippy

Usually when you recieve a gift you didn't provide a service.

Thank you Susan for explaning that. I think some will still feel maternal attachment because hormones play a huge part in that. Yes some of the attachment comes from knowing it's yours, planning a nursery, clothes, names, etc. But other times it's just those good ol' hormones. For example with both my kids we didn't do a nursery (we bed-share/co-sleep), and with ds2 I didn't buy anything since we knew we were having our second boy and kept all of ds1's stuff. We also didn't really do names and didn't know his name until he was born. But I still had a strong bond/attachment and I think a large part of that was because I felt awesome in pregnancy and my hormones were really high, I had a lot of "love cocktail" hormones.



Yes, but I'm asking when they don't have a contract.

If you feel like you may have a hard time carrying and handing over a baby to its parents after delivery that's ok. That just means surrogacy isn't right for you. There is a lot of soul searching that happens before a potential surrogate picks up the phone to make the initial call to an agency. For me, I knew I would be a great Gestational surrogate but not a traditional surrogate. I'm not comfortable with using my own eggs. However, there are plenty of people out there who make awesome traditional surrogates.

[K.A.T]

Originally Posted by HappyHippy

You didn't answer what if the IPs want the woman do induce at 39 weeks. Many OBs do elective inductions, so what if the IPs have an OB who will induce surromom. Who makes the call?

Providing a service + getting paid = job. My DH flies friends/family sometimes for a little bit of money. It is not his full time job, nor would those times be enough to support us (it will put gas in the vehicles a few times, that's it) but it's still a job since he's providing a service that he's being paid for. And I can think of many examples of things like that.

I have to agree with that. DH does DJ gigs one the side once in a while. On those days he only works for a few hours and get a few hundred as payment. It's still a job. He was hired for a service that he must fill, in turn he gets compensated for said service.

[K.A.T]

Originally Posted by GSLynn

Not everything that involves money exchanged has to involve a "job". You can receive "gifts" up to $10,000 according to the IRS. Surrogacy comp is usually given for the pain and suffering that pregnancy/birth entails. It covers additional expenses one may have that they wouldn't have but for the fact they're pregnant. Plus, what if I don't get pregnant? And it takes 4 years of my time? There are so many factors involved. I guess SOME people could use it as a crutch and make sort of a job out of it, but again, not the norm.

Yes, you can get a gift. But how is it a gift if you've done something to earn it? That's what I'm having trouble understanding. You go through the motions of getting a contract up and running with both parties signing, you hopefully get pregnant, at the end you deliver a baby that is being given to another family and you get some sort of monetary compensation out of it. *Yes I know I'm simplifying things for the moment* I'm trying to understand how that is a gift. Normally, gifts don't come with conditions or strings attached.

[*Jillian*]

Originally Posted by K.A.T

I have to agree with that. DH does DJ gigs one the side once in a while. On those days he only works for a few hours and get a few hundred as payment. It's still a job. He was hired for a service that he must fill, in turn he gets compensated for said service.

Please tell me he has a DJ name!!! i want to start calling him that!

And yeah, it's a job if you get paid anything at all. Not a big deal. Hell, I'm pregnant now and if it feels like a job! My payoff is having a baby, another member of our family, but it's MY JOB to get the baby here.

Thanks for answering questions to all that have. People stay uneducated or I prefer uninformed (semantics rock) if people don't share knowledge. That's what debates are good for a lot of times.

[peace.love.audrey]

Originally Posted by HappyHippy

Wow ok

I meant that in the nicest way possible. I feel like if you aren't smart enough to have a contract then I don't know how much faith I would have about other decisions you make in your life.


Regarding the whole job issue, I feel like its all about the intent. I don't consider it a job because I never intended to make money, it just turned out that way. Idk if this analogy will work but let's say you do volunteer work in your spare time and at the end of your time at this company, they throw you a big party with presents and as a thank you for all your hard work, they send you on a vacation. To me, that's not a job just because you got something in the end. That was a thank you from them for dedicating part of your life to helping their cause.

[MindyRambo]

Originally Posted by *Jillian*

Please tell me he has a DJ name!!! i want to start calling him that!

And yeah, it's a job if you get paid anything at all. Not a big deal. Hell, I'm pregnant now and if it feels like a job! My payoff is having a baby, another member of our family, but it's MY JOB to get the baby here.

Thanks for answering questions to all that have. People stay uneducated or I prefer uninformed (semantics rock) if people don't share knowledge. That's what debates are good for a lot of times.

Exactly, and that is the reason I posted the thread, even though I knew it was sure to stir some bad feelings, I felt if we learned anything it was worth it.