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Treyvon Martin Situation


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  #1  
March 22nd, 2012, 01:56 PM
K.A.T's Avatar Enjoying her Sticky Bun
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What are your thoughts on this matter? Here are some articles about what transpired.

Treyvon Martin Neighborhood Watch Shooting: 911 Tapes Send Mom Crying From Room - ABC News
George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin
Police chief in Trayvon Martin case to step down | The Lookout - Yahoo! News
Trayvon Martin case: Sponsors of Florida
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Last edited by K.A.T; March 22nd, 2012 at 02:03 PM.
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  #2  
March 22nd, 2012, 02:08 PM
*Jennifer*'s Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Very sad. I honestly don't think this was race related. I will comment more on it later.
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  #3  
March 22nd, 2012, 08:11 PM
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I think it was a race related issue and the whole thing is sickening.
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  #4  
March 22nd, 2012, 10:42 PM
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I have to think it was race related. It's so heartbreaking.
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  #5  
March 23rd, 2012, 06:41 AM
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I see this as an overzealous man who had an issues with another minority race. It's really sad and he should be charged with murder.
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  #6  
March 23rd, 2012, 07:49 AM
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I have no idea but if what Zimmerman's family say is true, racism was probably not the issue. Probably more of a case where he was abusing his position.
Neighbors describe watch leader at center of Florida investigation - CNN.com
Quote:
Zimmerman's family has denied that race played a role, saying he has many minority relatives and friends.
"The portrayal of George Zimmerman in the media, as well as the series of events that led to the tragic shooting, are false and extremely misleading," his father, a retired magistrate judge, wrote in a letter published in the Orlando Sentinel. "Unfortunately, some individuals and organizations have used this tragedy to further their own causes and agendas."
"George is a Spanish-speaking minority with many black family members and friends," Robert Zimmerman wrote. "He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever."
I think the main focus should be on what really happened, why Zimmerman didn't wait for the officers after he requested they be sent out, why he continued to chase Martin when he was told not to, and what consequences he should face for the murder of an unarmed teenager.
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  #7  
March 23rd, 2012, 08:22 AM
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I would love to say that it wasn't race related. But just because you're a minority yourself, and have dark skinned people in your own family, doesn't mean your not a racist. You don't have to be a pure Anglo person to be racist. Had he not muttered a racial slur, I would be more inclined to believe his father. But the fact that he used one, makes me feel otherwise.
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  #8  
March 23rd, 2012, 08:29 AM
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Sorry, but I doubt he would have pulled a gun and shot a white 17 year old boy.
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  #9  
March 23rd, 2012, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K.A.T View Post
I would love to say that it wasn't race related. But just because you're a minority yourself, and have dark skinned people in your own family, doesn't mean your not a racist. You don't have to be a pure Anglo person to be racist. Had he not muttered a racial slur, I would be more inclined to believe his father. But the fact that he used one, makes me feel otherwise.
Has it been determined that he actually used a racial slur or that someone said it sounded like he did or that he "might have"?

I guess I find it odd that one would have friends of the particular race he/she is supposed to hate. I'm not saying he's not racist. I just find that strange.

And Alicia, you have no idea who this man would or wouldn't have shot as you were not there, you do not know him, or his background. This is a man who hit a police officer and was involved in domestic violence issues with his wife (or ex wife) so why would you assume he would not have shot a white teenager?
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Last edited by Tammyjh; March 23rd, 2012 at 08:54 AM.
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  #10  
March 23rd, 2012, 08:48 AM
*Jennifer*'s Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I definitely think the guy is racist, but I also think the guy would have gone after this kid whatever his race. Reports are saying that he spent an unual amount time "patrolling" the neighborhood. He sounds like a wannabe cop who was just itching to use his gun.
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  #11  
March 23rd, 2012, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammyjh View Post
Has it been determined that he actually used a racial slur or that someone said it sounded like he did or that he "might have"?

I guess I find it odd that one would have friends of the particular race he/she is supposed to hate. I'm not saying he's not racist. I just find that strange.

And Alicia, you have no idea who this man would or wouldn't have shot as you were not there, you do not know him, or his background. This is a man who hit a police officer and was involved in domestic violence issues with his wife (or ex wife) so why would you assume he would not have shot a white teenager?
Because from everything I've been reading, it sounds like he pursued this kid because he was black. I read one interview with one of the neighbors where the race of the teenager was brought up and something along the lines of "he doesn't look like he belongs here" was said. Sorry, but I think it was very much an issue of race. Thats jmo.
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  #12  
March 23rd, 2012, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammyjh View Post
Has it been determined that he actually used a racial slur or that someone said it sounded like he did or that he "might have"?

I guess I find it odd that one would have friends of the particular race he/she is supposed to hate. I'm not saying he's not racist. I just find that strange.

And Alicia, you have no idea who this man would or wouldn't have shot as you were not there, you do not know him, or his background. This is a man who hit a police officer and was involved in domestic violence issues with his wife (or ex wife) so why would you assume he would not have shot a white teenager?
On the 911 tapes you can hear him mutter the slur. I believe he says K**N. Just because we have friends still doesn't negate the possibility of being a racist. There are people who will make exceptions because so and so isn't the "stereo typical" person of said race therefor they don't count. Or they have those "friends" for appearance matters only. I've seen it one too many times. It's an ugly thing really. Most of them are really in denial, but once you hear them speak, you will see how they truly feel about it.
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  #13  
March 23rd, 2012, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Jennifer* View Post
I definitely think the guy is racist, but I also think the guy would have gone after this kid whatever his race. Reports are saying that he spent an unual amount time "patrolling" the neighborhood. He sounds like a wannabe cop who was just itching to use his gun.
I agree with you whole completely. Any person would have been harassed regardless. This is why I feel that he should be charged with murder. His actions do not fall under that Florida stand your ground law one bit. However, I do feel that he acted faster or with more menace because of his race.
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  #14  
March 23rd, 2012, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K.A.T View Post
On the 911 tapes you can hear him mutter the slur. I believe he says K**N. Just because we have friends still doesn't negate the possibility of being a racist. There are people who will make exceptions because so and so isn't the "stereo typical" person of said race therefor they don't count. Or they have those "friends" for appearance matters only. I've seen it one too many times. It's an ugly thing really. Most of them are really in denial, but once you hear them speak, you will see how they truly feel about it.
But you don't know this is the case here for sure though. I can see your argument if his family said he had a few friends but the articles state he had "many" friends so it doesn't lead me to believe he was using his many friends so people wouldn't know he was a racist. Its possible. I'm more inclined to think that as he has a past history of being physical on at least one occasion with a police officer, domestic violence issues with his wife/ex wife, its stated that he was overzealous, untrained, self appointed, and was carrying a gun, it may not have mattered who he encountered on the street.

And yeah, I heard the tape and it does sound like the nasty term but the last thing I read was that while it sounds like it, its yet to be determined if that's what he really said. But does that really prove he shot the boy because of his race? Maybe.
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  #15  
March 23rd, 2012, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammyjh View Post
But you don't know this is the case here for sure though. I can see your argument if his family said he had a few friends but the articles state he had "many" friends so it doesn't lead me to believe he was using his many friends so people wouldn't know he was a racist. Its possible. I'm more inclined to think that as he has a past history of being physical on at least one occasion with a police officer, domestic violence issues with his wife/ex wife, its stated that he was overzealous, untrained, self appointed, and was carrying a gun, it may not have mattered who he encountered on the street.

And yeah, I heard the tape and it does sound like the nasty term but the last thing I read was that while it sounds like it, its yet to be determined if that's what he really said. But does that really prove he shot the boy because of his race? Maybe.
I'm more inclined to go off of his actions and verbal usage than what people are telling the news reporters. You can still have "many" and have it be a farce. I can also say I'm very jaded on this issues having witnessed it several times with many different people.
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  #16  
March 23rd, 2012, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K.A.T View Post
I'm more inclined to go off of his actions and verbal usage than what people are telling the news reporters. You can still have "many" and have it be a farce. I can also say I'm very jaded on this issues having witnessed it several times with many different people.
And you could be right. Like I said, I really don't know but I think we all agree that now that there is a lot of attention on this case, the right thing needs to be done.
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  #17  
March 23rd, 2012, 12:01 PM
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Yup, that's something that I feel the majority are in agreement over.
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  #18  
March 23rd, 2012, 01:39 PM
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He needs to be charged with murder. There really is no need to know whether it was an act done purely because of the boy's race, for me. In some cases, it might be an important factor, but in my opinion this case wouldn't matter one way or the other. I believe he would have done the same if the boy weren't a minority race. I do wish I could think otherwise, but I don't.

The man blatantly disregarded what we was told. He did exactly what they told him NOT to do. He abused what very little power people who are in groups, like neighborhood watches, actually get. He not only put himself, but anyone else who might have been in the vicinity in serious danger simply by ignoring what he was told. On top of that, he engaged the person he claimed to be suspicious, in an altercation. It wouldn't honestly matter who threw the first punch, or got in the first word, he engaged him. He had intentions the moment he followed that boy, the moment he ignored everything he was being told(and, might I add, EVERYTHING you are taught when you join things like a neighborhood watch).

Had he not killed the boy, I'd feel the same. But this was an intentional act, that ended in death. It was not an accident. It was 100% preventable. The boy was UNARMED. Unless of course he could kill the man with his skittles, or tea, I suppose that's possible. But then anything else the man was also carrying, could be considered a weapon too, and that just ventures into the area of ridiculous. SO I don't think people should go there.(some are saying things like "but the boy COULD have been armed" and "he had no way to know the boy wasn't armed" and such)

He went after an unarmed person, in this case a boy, but from his actions it's entirely likely, this isn't his first tangle with someone "suspicious". If given the opportunity, it most definitely will not be his last. He's clearly got a violent background, and personally I have to wonder why he's even in anything like a neighborhood watch. I sure as hell wouldn't trust him with any kind of power, let alone a weapon. He has issues controlling his own self, and it's quite apparent, he's not very predictable. Except that people know he has a violent past, so it's more likely than not, he'd repeat.(but then again, don't most families say "we never saw it coming", "s/he's not a violent person", etc....?)

Yeah he has a legal right to carry a gun-so long as his doing so, breaks no laws. But why on earth did he need to get it out? Even if he and the boy fought, which I'm quite certain they did, but only because the man engaged him. Was the weapon necessary? That's what a jury, or judge if there is no jury trial, needs to think long and hard about. Could this have been prevented? Did it really need to happen, the way that it did? If the boy were truly looking suspicious, did he really need to engage him and disregard everything he was told? Didn't the man create even more risk, and potential for serious harm by his actions? Wasn't it HIS actions alone, that lead to the death of this boy?
So many questions, all hopefully will be brought up at this man's trial. I really think this man needs to answer for his actions. And I mean REALLY answer, not have someone do it for him. I find that to be pathetic, personally. If you commit a crime, I believe it's you who should answer for it, in all ways possible.

I won't knock the man for thinking the boy looked suspicious, only because I believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I may not agree with those opinions, or thoughts(especially ones I believe are racist), but I believe everyone has a right to think whatever they want to. So that part, alone(the man thinking the boy "looked suspicious") doesn't send up red flags to me. The dude's entitled to feel however he wants. It was acting on those feelings though, that started the ball rolling.

I take second glances at people walking down the road all the time. Especially here, because I live on the outskirts and, well, not a ton of foot traffic(especially after the early evening). Sometimes I wonder what they're doing there. It's not bad to think someone looks a little suspicious. But I'm not stupid enough to call 911 and then ignore everything it is they are telling me. I'm sure as hell not going to follow that person, unless of course I see someone else in danger because of them(and I can reasonably help of course, I certainly don't want to be harmed myself). I also won't jeopardize others in the area because I want to be some big shot with a gun and some pseudo power. I think that's how MOST people, who do things like neighborhood watch, and such, act as well. In fact, it's the reason many places have such organizations. So we can look out for one another, and our areas, and keep the harm to ALL who enter it, at a minimum.

This man, by his actions alone, increased the potential harm to not only himself and this boy, but all others in the vicinity and any property as well(not saying property is above human life, of course). That alone-had he not actually harmed someone, ought to be some sort of crime. Unfortunately, it's not, in most places. But he did far more than just that, he actual DID cause harm, the very thing a watch is supposed to prevent. Not just harm though, he took it a step further than harm, and actually took a life.
I don't believe this man deserves to keep his life. I know that probably sounds harsh to some, and there are very few things one can do that would cause me to think this way. But I've seen firsthand what happens when an overzealous moron abuses the right to bear arms and in the process takes another(innocent) life.
There were too many people who thought that man's actions were justified, way back when(and still do to this day, it really ripped apart a community and just snowballed into all sorts of problems afterward). I see the same thing happening here, in this case, to be honest. I know there are likely millions around the world who would never side with this man, on ANY of his actions. It's those who believe this was purely an accident, and that the man doesn't deserve a swift and harsh punishment, and that he's a "nice guy"(along with everything else his supporters are saying) that worry me the most, though. They can be the most damaging, after things like this occur.


Sorry, that was longer than it should have been. I probably shouldn't type out replies after physical therapy anymore, or at least do it BEFORE I take my meds.
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  #19  
March 23rd, 2012, 02:07 PM
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I always understood that if a person came and tried to harm you, but you told them to leave and they DID, that if you followed them YOU became the aggressive one. I still can't find exactly what this kid "did" to warrant being followed and then subsequently shot. I believe that based on the info above, that the person who followed him, is a killer, cold-blooded; not someone who was defending themselves.
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  #20  
March 23rd, 2012, 02:22 PM
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All the boy did was walk down the street of a gated community. One where he had either a friend or a family member living there.
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